19:01 -!- logger [irc@localhost] has joined #meeting
19:01 -!- Topic for #meeting: tech meeting at 20:00 utc -- agenda: http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Devel/NewTechOrientation2005
19:01 -!- Topic set by tammo [irc@localhost] [Sat Feb 26 18:58:30 2005]
19:01 [Users #meeting]
19:01 [ Alster] [ logger] [ tammo] 
19:01 -!- Irssi: #meeting: Total of 3 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 3 normal]
19:01 -!- Channel #meeting created Sat Feb 26 18:02:20 2005
19:01 -!- Irssi: Join to #meeting was synced in 0 secs
19:01 -!- intrigeri [irc@localhost] has joined #meeting
19:01 < intrigeri> hi there
19:01 < Alster> where do you want to log today?
19:01 < tammo> hi intrigeri
19:01 < intrigeri> Alster, I am logger actually
19:01 < Alster> intrigeri, kind of guessed so ;)
19:01 < intrigeri> (just setup an irssi dedicated to log this meeting)
19:02 < Alster> cool
19:02 < intrigeri> argh
19:03 < intrigeri> tammo, can you op us please or set the chan +t so that I can change the topic ?
19:03 -!- mode/#meeting [+o tammo] by ChanServ
19:03 -!- mode/#meeting [+ooo Alster intrigeri logger] by tammo
19:03 -!- mode/#meeting [-t] by tammo
19:03 -!- intrigeri changed the topic of #meeting to: tech meeting at 20:00 utc | http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Devel/NewTechOrientation2005 | http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Global/ImcIRC
19:04 <@intrigeri> http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Global/ImcIRC <--- really useful doc
19:23  * Alster will have a bit of sleep before the meeting starts
19:24 -!- Alster [irc@localhost] has quit [Quit: Quit messages suck!]
21:04 -!- Alster [irc@localhost] has joined #meeting
21:04  * Alster yawns
21:06 -!- lexi [irc@localhost] has joined #meeting
21:06 -!- lexi [irc@localhost] has left #meeting []
21:07 -!- rhatto [irc@localhost] has joined #meeting
21:08 -!- djrom [irc@localhost] has joined #meeting
21:08 <@intrigeri> Alster, http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?day=26&month=2&year=2005&hour=21&min=0&sec=0&p1=0
21:09 <@intrigeri> Alster, the meeting is in one hour
21:09 < Alster> damn
21:10 < Alster> thought it was 20 UTC
21:10 <@intrigeri> no
21:10 < Alster> crazy professor turns back to bed
21:12 < djrom> Alster: good rest :)
21:13 < Alster> thanks ;)
21:13 < Alster> i guess i'll just stay awake this time
21:13 < Alster> djrom, did you register your nickname yet?
21:13 < Alster> nope, you didnt
21:14 < Alster> please do, so you can get ops automatically on #twiki
21:14 < djrom> Alster: I did
21:14 < Alster> -NickServ- The nickname [djrom] is not registered
21:16 < djrom> Alster: I'm supposed to be :)
21:16 < Alster> /msg nickserv register YOURPREFERREDPASSWORD
21:16 < djrom> Alster: I'm suuposed to be already registered :)
21:17 < djrom> Alster: life is cruel: the NickServ doesn't want to talk to me :)
21:17 < Alster> huh
21:18 < Alster> strangeness
21:21 < djrom> Alster: yeah, really
21:22 < djrom> Alster: he doesn't /w 9
21:22 < djrom> Alster: want
21:22 < djrom> Alster: sorry
21:24 < Alster> Nickname installation failed. Try again (y/n)? 
21:24 < Alster> y
21:24 < djrom> :)
21:24 < Alster> Sorry, this option is not currently implemented, please choose a different one.
21:24 < Alster> Nickname installation failed. Try again (y/n)? 
21:25 -!- ksandre [irc@localhost] has joined #meeting
21:28 < djrom> Alster: the weird thing is that if I try to connect again under my nick, I'm told it's already used
21:33 < Alster> djrom, which is you other nick?
21:34 -!- bertagaz [irc@localhost] has joined #meeting
21:34 -!- momo [irc@localhost] has joined #meeting
21:35  * momo is late
21:35 <@intrigeri> hey folks, please have a look to http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Devel/NewTechOrientation2005#Agenda
21:35 < djrom> Alster: I don't have
21:35 <@intrigeri> momo, non ça commence ds 25minutes
21:35 < momo> intrigeri: cool
21:35 < djrom> Alster:  I just tried to connect under djrom, was told that it was already used, given djrom_ as a nickname and could talk to NickServ
21:35 < djrom> Alster: weird
21:36 -!- tammo [irc@localhost] has quit []
21:37 < Alster> but you are djrom now and it doesnt kick you...
21:37 < djrom> Alster: normal
21:37 < djrom> Alster: I didn't asked him to ghost me 
21:38 < Alster> oh, i thought you meant nickserv had told you that your nickname was registered by someone else
21:38 < Alster> but in fact the server told you that your nickname was currently in use, that's something different
21:39 < djrom> Alster: yep, sorry
21:39 -!- momo [irc@localhost] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
21:39 < Alster> no need to be sorry
21:40 < djrom> Alster: language habit
21:40 < Alster> :)
21:40 < Alster> djrom, maybe you could send an email on that weirdness to ircd@indymedia.org
21:41 -!- elfo [irc@localhost] has joined #meeting
21:41 < elfo> hello
21:41 < djrom> Alster: I think I'll, yes :)
21:42 < Alster> cool
21:42 < Alster> hi elfo 
21:43 < elfo> hi djrom, hi Alster 
21:43 <@intrigeri> coucou elfo 
21:43 < elfo> salut intrigeri 
21:43 <@intrigeri> elfo, vu l'ordre du jour ?
21:43 < elfo> je suis en train de le relire
21:55 -!- pabs [irc@localhost] has joined #meeting
21:55 -!- jim [~pjirc@c-24-125-21-247.va.client2.attbi.com] has joined #meeting
21:56 < pabs> hey folk, are we started yet?
21:56 < jim> $%^$ win98 box...
21:56 < Alster> 4 mins left
21:56 < pabs> yay for 5am meetings
21:57 < Alster> isnt accessing the internet with anything below windows 2000 prohibited?
21:57 < elfo> pabs: is it your local time?
21:57 < pabs> yep :)
21:57 < elfo> Alster: should be
21:57  * ksandre offers coffee to pabs
21:57  * pabs guzzles
21:57  * Alster offers tea to himself
21:57 < elfo> good morning  :)
21:57 < jim> behind a Smoothwall firewall
21:57 < jim> mom's xmas gift
21:58 < pabs> brb
21:58 <@intrigeri> pabs, I am logger ;)
22:00 < pabs> figures. i thought it might be one of those bots that used to be setup
22:03 < jim> ergl - miss my Gnome...
22:04 <@intrigeri> well, let's wait 5 min and decide who will be the facilitator(s) in the meantime, ok ?
22:05 -!- momo [irc@localhost] has joined #meeting
22:05 < jim> Not me - too new to working with others online
22:06  * elfo quite new too
22:06  * ksandre too - regarding process & IRC meetings.
22:06 < ksandre> (I did read the DOCs though.)  ;>
22:07 <@intrigeri> we (djrom + momo + I) are physically in the same place and can easily be kind of a facilitation team
22:07 < pabs> sounds good to me
22:07 < jim> 'kay with me
22:07 < elfo> perfect
22:09 <@intrigeri> these 5 minutes are gone...
22:09 < djrom> intrigeri: poor 5 minutes :)
22:10 < djrom> can we set a time-limit ?
22:10 < djrom> 2 hours seems a good fit
22:10  * intrigeri ok
22:10 < elfo> ok
22:10  * momo ok
22:10  * jim ok
22:10  * bertagaz oky too
22:11 < djrom> ok, let's say we end at 23:10
22:11 < djrom> GMT
22:11 < elfo> ca marche
22:11 <@intrigeri> anything to add to the agenda ? 
22:12 <@intrigeri> http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Devel/NewTechOrientation2005
22:12 < elfo> is ok for me
22:13 < bertagaz> ok
22:13 -!- occam [irc@localhost] has joined #meeting
22:13  * jim ok
22:14 <@intrigeri> well, seems we can start with this agenda then.
22:14  * djrom ok
22:14 < pabs> intrigeri: how about intros first?
22:14 <@intrigeri> 1. individual introductions (people who are active in tech say what they do and people who are wanting to help say what they want to do)
22:14 < pabs> oops
22:14 -!- john [irc@localhost] has joined #meeting
22:14 -!- intrigeri changed the topic of #meeting to: 1. individual introductions | http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Devel/NewTechOrientation2005
22:15  * intrigeri raises hand
22:15 <@intrigeri> I joined imc-tech 1 year ago in a similar meeting
22:15 <@intrigeri> work mainly on docs.indy (TWiki)
22:15 <@intrigeri> sysadmin, upgrading, fixing bugs
22:15 <@intrigeri> answering users questions
22:16 <@intrigeri> (from france, btw)
22:16 <@intrigeri> .
22:16  * elfo raises
22:16  * john raises hand
22:16 <@intrigeri> elfo, gogogo.
22:16 -!- zapATIsta [md@CPE-24-167-223-188.wi.rr.com] has joined #meeting
22:17 < elfo> i'm now to imc tech, but i already know some people by annoying them on #tech for ch.indymedia.org problems
22:17 < elfo> i did some tech work for the media center in lausanne and in geneva for the g8
22:17 < elfo> .
22:18 < elfo> s/now/new
22:18 < djrom> john, gogogo :)
22:18 < john> i'm john, i mostly spend by indymedia time working on mir sites, mostly www.indymedia.org, indymedia.us, and ftaaimc.org
22:19 < john> i also am trying to focus now on training new people how to work with mir.
22:19 < john> i live in baltimore in the us.
22:19 < john> .
22:19  * jim raises hand
22:19  * djrom raises hand
22:19  * rhatto raises hand
22:19  * momo raises hand
22:19 <@intrigeri> current stack : jim, djrom, rhatto, momo
22:19 <@intrigeri> jim, gogogo
22:20  * Alster raises hand
22:20 < jim> I'm new to indymedia, got involved after richmond indymedia had a huge story that killed the server
22:20 <@logger> current stack: djrom, rhatto, momo, Alster
22:20 < ksandre> I am new[ish] and have some tech experience outside IMC.  Have not yet been to even my local IMC [imc-nh] general meeting yet.  I am not yet sure that I have the skills and resources needed to help, but would like to.  I am interested in TWiki.  I would love to learn about MIR, but think that is way in the future for me.  I live in New Hampshire, USA.
22:20 < jim> still feeling out the terrain - don't know what yet to gget involved in
22:20 < jim> .
22:21 <@intrigeri> ksandre, as you have started, let's finish :)
22:21 -!- chrisc [irc@localhost] has joined #meeting
22:21 < djrom> current stack: ksandre, djrom, rhatto, momo
22:22 < djrom> current stack: ksandre, djrom, rhatto, momo, Alster (sorry)
22:22  * bertagaz raise his ass (or his hand like u want)
22:22  * chrisc raises
22:22 <@intrigeri> ksandre, have you finished your introduction ?
22:22 < ksandre> Yes.
22:23 <@intrigeri> djrom, gogogo
22:23 < djrom> well, I (not really formally) joined imc-tech
22:23 < djrom> four month ago
22:23  * intrigeri --> newcomers: the facilitation team is djrom+momo+I as we're physically in the same place.
22:23 < djrom> at the same time I entered imc-nantes
22:23 < djrom> I'm involved right now in imc-docs
22:24 < djrom> (the TWiki thing)
22:24 < djrom> trying to admin, improve, and I don't know hack things :)
22:24 < djrom> .
22:24 < rhatto> i work for brasil-tech for 3 years and mainly admin daileon.indy & santangoss.indy servers and mantain portuguese docs and brasil.indy site
22:24 <@intrigeri> rhatto, go go go
22:24 < rhatto> and also i help in lots of local projects
22:24 < rhatto> .
22:25 < djrom> momo, gogogo
22:25 < momo> so, i'm new too on imc-tech, i just suscribed on imc-doc. Get involved with imc nantes, and new-imc. And i want to help the twiki admin.  
22:25 <@intrigeri> current stack; momo, Alster, bertagaz, chrisc 
22:26 < momo> just want a learn a bit of techs. 
22:26 < momo> .
22:26 < Alster> i help out with imc docs (the docs.indymedia.org tech team), listwork (working group which takes care of mailing lists and @indymedia.org addresses), and recently co-founded the imc-security working group. while trying to learn programming, i mostly see myself as some kind of a techie - non-techie mediator (or the other way around). i live in hamburg, that's northern germany.
22:26 < Alster> .
22:26  * pabs raises
22:26 <@intrigeri> current stack: bertagaz, chrisc, pabs 
22:26 <@intrigeri> bertagaz, go go go
22:27 < bertagaz> i4m in imc-nantes since the beginning, but my participation depends on my time, and is mostly site adminisatrtion of the collectiv
22:28 < bertagaz> like jim i search where i can help
22:28 < bertagaz> .
22:28 <@intrigeri> chrisc, gogogo
22:28 < chrisc> I'm Chris I do Uk and some global tech stuff.
22:28 < chrisc> .
22:28 <@logger> current stack: pabs
22:28 <@intrigeri> pabs, gogogo
22:28 < pabs> i'm from perth (sydney soon). involved in listwork, ircd and sysadmin for a few servers. no codebase experience apart from perth's homebrew code - activismo. also involved in cat.org.au and thinking about doing some debian stuff. more info on twik user PaulWise
22:29 < pabs> .
22:29 <@intrigeri> any other introductions ?
22:29 <@intrigeri> seems not.
22:29 < djrom> so, first point
22:29 -!- intrigeri changed the topic of #meeting to: 2. GlobaltechVolunteerNeeds | http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Devel/NewTechOrientation2005
22:30 <@intrigeri> I introduce this item :
22:30 <@intrigeri> we have to find out how newcomers can get involved
22:30 <@intrigeri> http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Devel/GlobaltechVolunteerNeeds
22:31 < elfo> (everyone is reading the page....)
22:31 <@intrigeri> so, people who want to help but do not know what for, have a look to this
22:31 <@intrigeri> then you can ask questions and take responsibilities :)
22:31 <@intrigeri> .
22:31  * pabs raises
22:31 <@intrigeri> pabs, gogogo
22:31  * elfo raises
22:32  * bertagaz raises
22:32 < pabs> i think it might be interesting for new people to hear how ppl already doing stuff got involved 9mebbe later if we get time)
22:32 < djrom> current stack: pabs, elfo, bertagaz
22:32 < pabs> .
22:32 < djrom> elfo, gogogo
22:33 < elfo> i just forgot to tell what i wanted to do in the introduction: i can do Docs, ListWork and global templatin (but not very proficent in design)
22:33 < elfo> .
22:33  * jim raises hand
22:33 < djrom> bertagaz, gogogo
22:33  * pabs points ppl at an intro to zapATIsta http://archives.lists.indymedia.org/www-features/2004-March/011512.html
22:33 < djrom> current stack bertagaz, jim
22:34 < bertagaz> i'm want to do some things like rt or keyserver or irc  things
22:34 -!- Ferlingheti [irc@localhost] has joined #meeting
22:34 < bertagaz> think i can help with cgi::irc
22:35 < bertagaz> .
22:35 <@intrigeri> jim, gogogo
22:35 < jim> I'm new to server-land, but have been using Linux at home for a couple of years
22:36 < jim> I can ick up just about any software, and am comfortable in command-line
22:36  * Alster raises hand
22:36 < jim> list-work sounds like a good starting base,
22:36 < jim> but my local IMC has issues that need resolving first
22:36 < jim> .
22:36 -!- jankyHellface [irc@localhost] has joined #meeting
22:36 < Alster> i'd like to find out how people got aware of this meeting.
22:37 < Alster> this would be good to know as i'm trying to analyze communication channels between indymedia and the outer world a little.
22:37 < Alster> .
22:37  * intrigeri proposes the latest arrived people to introduce themselves first.
22:37  * elfo agree
22:38 -!- jankyHellface [irc@localhost] has left #meeting []
22:38 <@intrigeri> Ferlingheti ?
22:38 <@intrigeri> ja?
22:38 < djrom> and we add the Alster point proposal after the end of the agenda to discuss if we still got time
22:38  * momo raises
22:38 -!- jankyHellface [irc@localhost] has joined #meeting
22:40  * jim ok with point proposal
22:40 < Ferlingheti> oh hi. :) don't mind me. i'm just curious. if my presence is unwelcome let me know. otherwise i won't disturb you.
22:40 < djrom> any presentation left ?
22:40 -!- jankyHellface [irc@localhost] has quit [Quit: jankyHellface]
22:40 < djrom> momo, goes on
22:40 <@intrigeri> momo, gogogo (let's go on with the newcomers telling what they want to do)
22:41  * bertagaz raises  (again)
22:41 < momo> so i do not have a lot of knowing on techniques and all that stuff
22:42 < momo> so it's could be better if i begin to be involved with imc-docs
22:42 < momo> .
22:42 -!- luis [irc@localhost] has joined #meeting
22:42 <@intrigeri> bertagaz, gogogo
22:42 < bertagaz> i forgot to say i use linux since say 5/6 years
22:43 < bertagaz> got network knowledges
22:43 < luis> thanks, pabs. hi all
22:43 < elfo> llo
22:43 < bertagaz> wanting to help in admin
22:44 -!- Zapata [irc@localhost] has joined #meeting
22:44 -!- mode/#meeting [+o Zapata] by ChanServ
22:44 < bertagaz> things i4ve listed before were more software installation 
22:44 < bertagaz> sites design
22:44 < bertagaz> things like that
22:44  * elfo /win 4
22:44 < elfo> (ups)
22:44 <@intrigeri> bertagaz, finished ?
22:44 < bertagaz> dont have lot of of experiences in admin but I'd like to do
22:44 < bertagaz> intrigeri -> yes
22:44 < bertagaz> .
22:45 < bertagaz> :]
22:45 <@intrigeri> stack : empty.
22:45 < djrom> luis, you can go for a prensentation
22:45  * elfo suggest to go into details of the different tasks
22:45 < djrom> presentation, sorry
22:45 < elfo> k
22:45 < djrom> s/presentation/introduction
22:47 < luis> ok. I'm from Brasil and I try to help a little on listwork and on some local tech issues, specially on teaching what I know to others. have done lots of cryptography workshops with IMC people lately. guess thats it
22:48 < luis> [end?]
22:48  * bertagaz aks himself how to articulate this meeting
22:48 < djrom> luis: "."
22:48 -!- briks [irc@localhost] has joined #meeting
22:48 <@intrigeri> briks, do you want to introduce yourself ?
22:49 < briks> well, Alster told me to come here.
22:49  * occam imc tech and coder since 3 years.. from germany.. sysadmin ...
22:49 < briks> i have a little bit to do with imc-germany-tech-stuff
22:49 < briks> (end)
22:50 <@intrigeri> ok, stack empty.
22:50  * elfo suggest to go into details of the different tasks
22:50  * Zapata mircoder, ircd oper, assisting a lot of the mir imc sites around
22:50 <@intrigeri> shall we go intro details of the different tasks as elfo proposed ?
22:50  * jim ok
22:50  * bertagaz is ok
22:50  * momo ok
22:50  * Alster ok
22:51  * djrom yep
22:51 <@intrigeri> want details about *what* ?
22:51  * elfo suggest to try to find one person per task to tell out how to participate in the group, who are the others or something like that
22:52 < elfo> to integrate who want to participate, to know who to ask to
22:52  * bertagaz totally agree
22:52  * intrigeri ok
22:52  * djrom ok
22:52  * jim ok
22:52  * momo oki
22:53 < elfo> so... let's begin with twiki (many interested...) or with some smaller tasks?
22:53 <@intrigeri> Alster, go for this please :)
22:54 < Alster> ok
22:54 < Alster> indymedia keeps a lot of documentation and other information no http://docs.indymedia.org 
22:55 < Alster> this site is running a web application called TWiki, http://www.twiki.org
22:55 < Alster> it's an easy way to work on documents with a community 
22:55 < Alster> this installation is currently maintained by a small team
22:56 < Alster> we could use more people helping us out
22:56 < Alster> especially as some of the more profound people would like to improve the software itself
22:56 < Alster> so other people will need to take over the maintenance
22:56 < Alster> this is quite easy actually and a good way to get into indymedia tech stuff
22:57 < Alster> here's our to do list: http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Sysadmin/ImcDocsTodo
22:57 < Alster> sorry fo the delay
22:57  * momo didn't understood the to do list
22:58 < Alster> we'll be moving to a new server soonish (hopefully)
22:58 < Alster> i will love to explain what's on the to do list. it's quite cryptic if you're not into the software
22:58  * momo :)
22:58 < Alster> everyone who is interested in helping out with docs.indymedia.org should subscribe to the mailng list at
22:59 < Alster> http://lists.indymedia.org/imc-docs
22:59 < Alster> intirgeri would like to add more.
22:59 < Alster> .
22:59 <@intrigeri> yeah
22:59 <@intrigeri> the work is mainly :
22:59 <@intrigeri>   - daily maintenance : user accounts management, gardening...
23:00 <@intrigeri>   - long term goals : internationalization, mainly
23:00 <@intrigeri>   - user interraction : understand what/how people do not understand this tool
23:00 <@intrigeri> 1. & 3. take quite a lot of time, so I've not been able to get involved in 2. yet
23:00 <@intrigeri> I'd love too
23:00 <@intrigeri> join us and give me some free time :)
23:01  * pabs raises for listwork
23:01 <@intrigeri> .
23:01 < djrom> pabs, go for it :)
23:01 < pabs> the listwork group manages the mail and list server for indymedia (http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Sysadmin/ListWorkWorkingGroup)
23:01 < pabs> our list is here: http://lists.indymedia.org/listwork
23:01 < pabs> the server is currently running debian mailman 2.1.5-6 with some patches written by myself and a french tech called jb (and also ones contributed to upstream) http://lists.indymedia.org/patches/
23:02 < pabs> here is our todo list: http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Sysadmin/ListWorkTodo
23:02 < pabs> there is also info about ongoing work on the todo page
23:02 < pabs> listwork does a lot of things manually, but that may change at some point: http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/mmid/imc-tech/2005-0226-yg
23:02 < pabs> Alster: anything to add?
23:02  * Alster is still reading
23:03 < pabs> (also, we miss the request tracker)
23:03 <@intrigeri> (imc-docs also misses the request tracker)
23:03  * Alster has nothing to add
23:03 <@intrigeri> any other tool that needs to be described ?
23:03 -!- rabble [~evan@protest.net] has joined #meeting
23:04  * elfo would like to participate to listwork, he subscribed to listwork right now
23:04  * jim will subscribe this evening when I get back home
23:04 < pabs> excellent elfo, jim
23:04  * intrigeri raises
23:04  * Alster would like to say two sentences about rt
23:04 <@intrigeri> Alster, go for it
23:05 < elfo> intrigeri: /win 4
23:05 < elfo> argh
23:05 < Alster> rt is short for request tracker, it's basically, what the name says,: a software to track requests.
23:05  * luis has to go now. sorry. i will try to be back as soon as i can
23:05 < Alster> it's liek an intelligent email client, which has a threaded view
23:05 -!- luis [irc@localhost] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
23:05 < Alster> but it's a web application actually
23:06 < Alster> it will help you to keep track of what's done, what needs to be done, and to let the requestors know what the current situation is
23:06 < Alster> http://www.bestpractical.com/rt
23:06 < Alster> .
23:06 < Alster> sorry, one more sentence
23:06  * elfo raises (for rt)
23:06 < elfo> go
23:06 < Alster> we used to have this software at indymedia about a year ago
23:07 < djrom> elfo, wait a bit :)
23:07  * elfo waits
23:07 <@intrigeri> Alster, finished ?
23:07 < Alster> but then there was a server crash and the data was lost, as well as the installation. and it was never setup again after that.
23:07 < Alster> or was it on ahimsa? 
23:07 < Alster> .
23:08  * pabs adds that the old rt (on judi) had a lot of spam
23:08 <@intrigeri> rabble, if you want to introduce yourself after elfo's talk, feel free
23:08 <@intrigeri> elfo, gogogo
23:08  * intrigeri raises (about keys.indymedia.org)
23:08 < elfo> for rt, i ask: is there already a working group for that?
23:09  * john raises about www-tech
23:09 < elfo> what skill are needed to help out?
23:09 < elfo> .
23:09 <@intrigeri> elfo, no team.
23:09 <@intrigeri> elfo, software install + mainteance
23:09 < elfo> mainly php/sql i guess
23:09 <@intrigeri> elfo, maybe some sysadmin if we put it on docs.indy new (!) box
23:09 <@intrigeri> .
23:09 < bertagaz> what was the soft of rt?
23:10 < djrom> bertagaz: php+mysql
23:10 <@intrigeri> bertagaz, http://www.bestpractical.com/rt/
23:10 < bertagaz> is this http://freshmeat.net/projects/requesttracker/ ?
23:10 < djrom> .
23:10  * elfo ask: should we go on with rt or fix another meeting rt-specific?
23:10 < bertagaz> oki
23:11  * jim thinks rt deserves its own meeting
23:11 <@intrigeri> finished with RT ? anybody interrested in taking responsibility for it ?
23:11  * intrigeri ok
23:11  * elfo agree with jim 
23:11 <@intrigeri> who's going to propose a meeting / make sure it happens ?
23:12  * Alster thinks it doesn't need its own meeting, but a server
23:12 < elfo> so it is in last points?
23:12 <@intrigeri> elfo, ???
23:12 < elfo> (3.  servers )
23:12 <@intrigeri> sure.
23:13 <@intrigeri> stack: rabble's introduction, intrigeri (keys.indy), john (www-tech)
23:13 <@intrigeri> rabble, go for it 
23:13 <@intrigeri> (please)
23:13  * john wonders if he could move up in the stack,,,
23:13 < rabble> I'm rabble, aka evan, been doing indyemdia stuff since n99, not doing much lately, recently moved to san francisco and i've been a little involved in indybay. I'm not sure how much time i have i'm the lead developer of a startup doing audio publishing & podcasting tools odeo. Oh and i've been vaugely responsible for judi which was running rt.indymedia.org. end
23:14 < rabble> did that get cut off?
23:14 <@intrigeri> rabble, ok.
23:14 <@intrigeri> john, go for it
23:14 < john> ok, i've been heading up the new www-tech mailing list/working group
23:15 < john> the idea is to spread out the work of maintaining and redesigning www.indy (making the layout css based, standards comppliant, and skinnable)
23:15 < john> the mailing list is here: http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/listinfo/www-tech
23:15 < john> and the most recent todo list is here: http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/www-tech/2005-February/0223-fz.html
23:16 < john> what i'd especially love to see is some people who felt comfortable doing some freemarker template work....it's pretty easy
23:16 < john> i'm also willing to teach people the mir stuff as it gets done....
23:16 < john> end
23:17 < momo> intrigeri gogogo
23:17 <@intrigeri> we used to have a gpg keyserver and need someone to setup it back using the backups we have ; there is a list but I hardly have seen a msg on it : http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/listinfo/keyservers) ; I think it's not too much work, good introduction for someone wanting to improve his/her sysadmin skills
23:17 <@intrigeri> the backups are on ahimsa-*, see #ahimsa to get them if you're motivated to do so :)
23:18 <@intrigeri> (hope somebody will)
23:18 <@intrigeri> .
23:18  * elfo do a sign like "i will help if i can, with this keyserv stuff"
23:18  * bertagaz think he is going to see that
23:19 <@intrigeri> ok ; elfo, bertagaz, feel free to ask questions after the meeting to know exactly how to get involved.
23:19 <@intrigeri> cooool
23:19 < elfo> yep
23:19 <@logger> ----- 0h50 left ----------------
23:19 < bertagaz> this IS a working meeting ;]
23:19 < elfo> left: DNS, IRC, ... ?
23:20 -!- hep [hep@dis.gruntle.org] has joined #meeting
23:20  * Alster can add to irc
23:20 < djrom> Alster, go
23:20 < Alster> actually indymedia used to have two irc servers
23:21 < pabs> Alster: i have something, will paste
23:21 < Alster> one is hopefully going to be back soon, currently in repair
23:21 < Alster> ok, cool pabs
23:21 < pabs> the ircd group maintains the irc network (*ahem*, server) we are chatting on: http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Sysadmin/IrcDWorkingGroup
23:21 < pabs> and also the web interface to the irc network: chat.indymedia.org - code at http://codecoop.org/projects/indychat
23:21 < pabs> we also protect the server and users from irc viruses and spambots (currently porting zapata's java code to python: http://codecoop.org/projects/benbot)
23:21 < pabs> our list is here: http://lists.indymedia.org/ircd
23:22 < pabs> our todo page is here (lots of juicy stuff): http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Sysadmin/IrcDWorkingGroup#TODO
23:22 < pabs> anyone wanting to help with cgiirc, one task would be to get these patches into upstream (which has recently become more active): http://cvs.codecoop.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/indychat/cgiirc/patches/?cvsroot=indychat
23:22 < pabs> Zapata / Alster : anything to add?
23:22  * bertagaz aks what was the cgi::irc things?
23:22 < pabs> .
23:22  * hep raises
23:23 < Alster> we also need more translations for the chat.indymedia.org website and the several docs on using irc
23:23 < djrom> bertagaz, gogogo
23:23 < djrom> sorry
23:23 <@intrigeri> pabs, want to answer bertagaz ?
23:23 < Alster> if you'd like to get involved, please contact te mailing listas http://lists.indymedia.org/ircd
23:23 < bertagaz> so hm, what was the problem with cgi::irc
23:23 < Alster> .
23:23 <@intrigeri> bertagaz, this stuff is marked as done on GlobaltechVolunteerNeeds
23:23 < djrom> hep, gogogo
23:24 < pabs> bertagaz: its mostly done: https://chat.indymedia.org/cgiirc/irc.cgi?Nickname=guest&Channel=%23meeting&interface=mozilla&Realname=George+Bush
23:24 < hep> i am just introing. i am hep, i work with sfimc, i do tech stuff and web dev. i have tons of ircd experience, i help run a major irc network, write ircd code, and do irc scripting. 
23:24 < hep> done
23:25 < hep> oh yeah i work on chat.indy with pabs sometimes :)
23:25 < bertagaz> i saw the URLs
23:25 < pabs> :)
23:25 < bertagaz> but the topic of a chan talk about that...
23:25 <@intrigeri> finished about ircd ?
23:26 < djrom> facilitation point
23:26 <@intrigeri> anyone wants to introduce dns stuff ?
23:26 <@intrigeri> actuallly, there seems to be enough people working on this already.
23:27 <@intrigeri> any other details needed about the tech tasks ?
23:27 < elfo> IMC DB?
23:27 <@intrigeri> Alster, want to introduce it ?
23:27 < Alster> ok
23:28 < Alster> there's an attempt to keep contact addresses, both the public and the internal ones, in a central place, so you can ease icommunication
23:28 < Alster> it was formerly calleed the contact database (db)
23:28 < Alster> by now it has grown to a different software actually
23:29 < Alster> it can hold much more information,
23:29 < Alster> and thus serve many more purposes inc onnecting indy media activists to each other and to the outside world
23:30 < Alster> however, the infromation on the several IMCs stored in the databse is quite outdated
23:30 < Alster> and the user interface is not easy to use
23:30 < Alster> so it needs to be improved a lot.
23:30 <@intrigeri> Alster, already a team working on this ? twiki page ?
23:31 < Alster> other than that people will not use it and it will never get up-to.date information
23:31 < Alster> http://contact.uindymedia.org is the front end of the IMC database
23:31 < Alster> there is no real workgroup, just two codebase maintainers currently
23:31 < Alster> i will give the url of the wiki page shortly
23:31 < Alster> .
23:32  * intrigeri propose we jump to 3:servers (35 min. left)
23:32  * djrom agree
23:32  * momo ok
23:32  * elfo agree 
23:32  * jim ok
23:33 <@intrigeri> for a global point of view, see http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-sysadmin/2005-February/0222-39.html
23:33 < Alster> http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Global/ImcDatabase
23:34 < djrom> (reading break :))
23:35  * john remarks that there are some wishlist items for the contact db on the www-tech todo list
23:35 < Alster> on the database, please read also http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-tech/2005-January/0115-qb.html
23:35  * john also has to go :(
23:35 -!- john [irc@localhost] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
23:36 -!- mtoups [irc@localhost] has joined #meeting
23:36  * intrigeri raises hand (about servers)
23:36  * jim wonders where che got a 700 mhz PPro...
23:36 < djrom> intrigeri: go :)
23:36 <@intrigeri> ok
23:37 <@intrigeri> we have to take some decisions about (former) global servers
23:37 <@intrigeri> the situation is clear for some of them (kropotkin, che)
23:37 <@intrigeri> judi's case is a bit more complicated but not so much
23:38 <@intrigeri> epse+micah's proposal was to sell these 3 boxes 
23:38 <@intrigeri> since they are not used anymore
23:38 <@intrigeri> and quite old
23:38 <@intrigeri> but
23:39 <@intrigeri> I wonder if such a meeting can decide to sell these boxes
23:39 <@intrigeri> (legitimaty...)
23:39 <@intrigeri> anyway
23:39 <@intrigeri> it's been proposed on imc-sysadmin 
23:39  * hep raises
23:39  * bertagaz raises
23:40  * jim thinks we can at least make a reccomendation to the larger collective
23:40 <@intrigeri> and announced that we would make a decision during this meeting
23:40 <@intrigeri> so...
23:40 <@intrigeri> I propose we submit our "pre-decisions" to imc-sysadmin
23:40 <@intrigeri> with a 4-days deadline.
23:40 <@intrigeri> ok ?
23:40 <@intrigeri> .
23:40  * bertagaz ok
23:41  * jim ok
23:41 < rabble> judi is not technically owned by indymedia
23:41  * elfo is neutral (no in dept knowing of the thing)
23:41 <@intrigeri> rabble, my proposal is *only* to take pre-decisions and submit them to imc-sysadmin, actually
23:42  * djrom ok
23:42  * momo ok
23:42 <@intrigeri> any concerns with this way of making a decision ?
23:42 < hep> i agree with that
23:43 <@intrigeri> hep, bertagaz, did you want to talk about the way we make these decisions or about the decision we have to make now ?
23:43  * Alster is fine with giving a recommendation but noted that it can only be done by the sysadmins in the end
23:43 < rabble> intrigeri: ok
23:43 < hep> i second what alster said
23:43 < bertagaz> intrigeri -> about the decision
23:44 < hep> also something that shuold be taken into consideration is the amount of work that certain sysadmins will have to do pending outcome of the entire situation :)
23:44 < djrom> current stack: mtoups introduction, then hep and bertagaz
23:44 < djrom> mtoups ?
23:44 <@intrigeri> mtoups, go for it please :)
23:45 < mtoups>  oh sorry
23:45 < mtoups> hi
23:46 < mtoups> let's see, i'm with pittsburgh indymedia, we run some webservers here, plus i do sysadmin stuff, listwork stuff, sf-active devel work
23:46 < mtoups> done
23:46 <@logger> ---------- 25 min left ----------------
23:46 < djrom> hep, go for it
23:47 < hep> I actually am done, i just wanted to comment re: the server issues :)
23:47 < djrom> ok, perfect
23:47 < djrom> bertagaz, let's go
23:48 < bertagaz> just saw that the keyserver dont have home
23:48 < bertagaz> where to put it?
23:48  * djrom raises
23:48 < bertagaz> keeping one of these servers to do that?
23:48 < bertagaz> thats a question only
23:48 < bertagaz> got no opinion
23:48  * elfo raises
23:48  * jim raises
23:48 -!- Ferlingheti [irc@localhost] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:48 <@intrigeri> djrom, gogogo
23:48 < bertagaz> maybe a keyserver doesnt need that
23:48 < bertagaz> .
23:49  * hep raises
23:49 < bertagaz> oh waiy my point
23:49 < bertagaz> s/waiy/wait
23:49 < djrom> I think we need an evaluation of what a keyserver need, but I would say almost nothing
23:49 <@logger> current stack: elfo, jim, hep
23:49 < djrom> so, no problem for putting it into an existing machine
23:49 < djrom> imho
23:49 < djrom> .
23:49 < elfo> what about the server offers?
23:50 < elfo> (don't have the page URL but i remember about a Server Offer r something)
23:50 < elfo> .
23:50 < bertagaz> ur fast in answering djrom 
23:50 <@intrigeri> jim, gogogo
23:50 < bertagaz> or ahimsa
23:50 <@intrigeri> elfo, http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Devel/IMCServerOffers
23:50 < jim> I'd think judi would be good for that Kerberos thing that was just mentioned in imc-tech
23:51 < jim> plus, other secure-but-not-heavy-duty things
23:51 < jim> .
23:51  * intrigeri raises hand
23:51 <@intrigeri> hep, gogogo
23:51 <@logger> current stack: hep, intrigeri 
23:51 < hep> do we have a server architechture diagram somewhere?
23:52 < hep> perhaps we should think of doing that
23:52 -!- mode/#meeting [-o intrigeri] by logger
23:52 < hep> so that we can map where various items would fit best
23:52 < hep> for instance currently docs and ircd reside on the same machine which is a bad thing
23:52 < hep> but we could group out things that can share the same machine and have a better understanding of what each machine is doing
23:52 < hep> and when new services need adding, have a better understanding of where they should go
23:53 < hep> done
23:53 < djrom> intrigeri, roll
23:53 < intrigeri> actually, ircd and docs are *no* more on the same box : there is one box for ircd (ernesto), and we're looking for a new/dedicated box for docs.indy
23:53 < intrigeri> about architecture diagram : there is none, but the global services are not so numerous
23:54 < hep> oh yeah i forgot nothing is on che anymore, sorry
23:54 < intrigeri> and
23:54 < hep> however the point is that they were for a considerable period of time
23:54 < hep> and still would be had che not been taken down
23:54 < intrigeri> hep, please let me finish .$
23:54  * elfo raises (make point of situation)
23:54 < intrigeri> jim, judi is a 4u box and we don't know were to host it
23:55  * hep raises (also point)
23:55 < intrigeri> I agree we have to decentralize key services such as ircd & docs.
23:55 < intrigeri> .
23:55 <@logger> current stack: elfo, hep 
23:55 < elfo> my turn?
23:55 -!- geneX [irc@localhost] has joined #meeting
23:56 < intrigeri> elfo, gogogo
23:56 < elfo> what i understood is: we need some more servers, sell out obsoletes
23:56 < elfo> why not use the IMCServerOffers for that? any other points/problems?
23:56 < elfo> .
23:57 < intrigeri> hep, gogogo
23:57 <@logger> ---------- 10 min. left ---------------------
23:57 < hep> The point i had was that having a server diagram would be good for remembering what services are running on what machine. not ONLY global services, but what else might be running there
23:57  * mtoups raises
23:57 < hep> for instance you dont want ircd running on ANY machine that hosts critical information
23:58 < hep> there are a number of ways to own irc in a way which can either crash the server or gain access to a machine. many of these are not made public ever by the groups that discover them
23:58 < hep> sometimes people forget what other things a server may be doing, case in point being that che had to be rebrought up because it was hosting things which people forgot about
23:59  * jim raises
23:59 < hep> done
23:59 < djrom> mtoups: go for it
23:59 <@logger> stack: mtoups, jim, geneX introduction (?)
23:59 < mtoups> re: ircd -- security wise, it sounds like ircd should be run inside a chroot jail.  i don't know if this has already been considered
00:00 < mtoups> re: twiki -- decentralizing it sounds good, but how do you propose we do it? (intrigeri)  would it help to have squids for docs.indymedia.org ?
00:00 < mtoups> done
00:00  * intrigeri raises
00:00 < djrom> jim, go
00:01 < jim> re hosting things - is there a regular security sweep/audit ala nmap/nessus?
00:01 < jim> it'd help if it isn't done...
00:01 < jim> .
00:01 < momo> intrigeri go
00:01 < intrigeri> ok
00:01 < intrigeri> well
00:02 < intrigeri> mtoups, I only meant "not put ircd and docs on the same box" when I said "decentralizating"
00:02 < intrigeri> elfo, IMCServerOffers does not offers any box suitable for docs.indy
00:02 < intrigeri> jim, security advises would be welcome :)
00:03 < intrigeri> hep, right now, the only ircd is on ernesto
00:03 < intrigeri> elfo, we only need 1 server actually (for docs.indy + rt.indy) ; keys.indy can be hosted anywhere
00:04 < intrigeri> .
00:04 < intrigeri> errr
00:04 < elfo> ok
00:04  * elfo raises
00:04  * intrigeri proposes to keep espe+micah's proposal 
00:04 < intrigeri> .
00:04 < hep> ok
00:05 < djrom> should we say agree on intri's proposal ?
00:05  * jim ok with proposal
00:05 < djrom> intrigeri: any pointer to this proposal ?
00:05 < elfo> ?
00:05 < bertagaz> for what i know i do...
00:05 < elfo> what's the proposal\?
00:05  * hep raises (question about proposal)
00:05 < intrigeri> http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-sysadmin/2005-February/0222-39.html
00:05 < intrigeri> (keeping in mind we can't sell judi since it's not ours)
00:06  * mtoups raises
00:06 < djrom> everybody should take one minute to read it
00:06 <@logger> stack: elfo, hep, mtoups 
00:06 < djrom> (keeping in mind that we need to decide something)
00:07  * elfo UNraises
00:07 < djrom> hep, go
00:07 < hep> the addition to the proposal is to consense in here, then move it to which list for a 4day period?
00:07 < intrigeri> it is.
00:08 < hep> will it be considered consensed on then and acted on, or does it need to go somewhere after that?
00:08 < intrigeri> needs to be agreed on imc-sysadmin then.
00:08 < hep> then acted on?
00:08 < djrom> hep: after agreement on imc-sysadmin, it'll be done
00:08 < intrigeri> hopefully
00:09 < hep> or will it need to move to another list from there? i am just wondering at timeline :)
00:09 < hep> ok
00:09  * pabs points ppl interested in keyserver stuff at the code used in times past: http://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/gnupgd/
00:10  * intrigeri clarifies: if we + imc-sysadmin agrees on this, in 4 days, kropotkin + che will be sold.
00:10 -!- luis [irc@localhost] has joined #meeting
00:10 < djrom> so do we have a consensus
00:10 < djrom> on intri's proposal ?
00:10 < hep> i agree
00:10 -!- gek [ryan@linefeed.org] has joined #meeting
00:10 < gek> hi
00:11 < jim> no one has objected so far...
00:11 < djrom> that is: we consense on espe's + micah proposal (http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-sysadmin/2005-February/0222-39.html) and we pass it to imc-sysadmin
00:11  * intrigeri ok
00:11  * momo ok
00:11  * djrom ok
00:12  * jim ok
00:12  * Alster thinks consensus doen't need explicit ok's
00:12 < mtoups> i support the proposal if it is what the people who must work with the hardware think is best (ie, micah/espe/others?).  but i just wanted to make a general comment that usually by distributing services we achieve a nice load balancing that means we don't need fancy new servers.  there are some exceptions for things that are hard to spread across servers (lists, databases) but for things like webservers we've had a lot of success with things like roundrobin DNS. (wh
00:12 < mtoups> wow that was long
00:12 < mtoups> :)
00:12 < pabs> mtoups: missed a bit
00:12 < hep> mtoups: the issue is that the servers we have right now are.. in states where they cannot be used effectively
00:12 < mtoups> ok i understand
00:13 < hep> judi is too big to host in most places, and che will take a lot of time + money to run well and will still be underpowered
00:13  * pabs raises
00:13 < momo> pabs go
00:14 < pabs> one box not in that proposal is sarai2 (the old listserver box).
00:14 < pabs> i've forgotten what the situation with it is, mtoups, Alster, any info?
00:14 < pabs> .
00:14 < mtoups> the box is huge, that's the main issue
00:14  * Alster doesn't remember
00:15  * intrigeri raises
00:15 < djrom> intrigeri: roll
00:15 < intrigeri> since we do not have enough information here, let's not take a decision about sarai2.
00:16 < intrigeri> we could start talking about docs.indy +rt.indy hosting
00:16 < intrigeri> but
00:16 < intrigeri> the meeting was supposed to finish 5 min. ago
00:16  * pabs agrees with proposal
00:16 < intrigeri> anybody disagrees if we make a decision about docs.indy / rt before finishing ?
00:16 < intrigeri> .
00:16 < bertagaz> nop
00:17 < mtoups> i agree with the proposal, good hardware for docs.indy is important
00:17 < djrom> so, we can say we got a consensus on that ?
00:17 < djrom> any objection ?
00:17 < bertagaz> also nothing has been done  about rt
00:17  * intrigeri raises
00:17 < momo> intrigeri: gogo
00:18 < Alster> i still disagree on putting rt onto the same server as docs.indy
00:18 < Alster> sorry
00:18 < intrigeri> Alster, why ?
00:18 < intrigeri> .
00:18  * Alster raises hand
00:18 < djrom> Alster: go
00:18 < Alster> i think that docs.indy is an important element of indymedias infrastructure
00:19 < Alster> and rt.indy is a place to track whats going on with important parts of the indynmedia infrastructure.
00:19 < Alster> these are colliding interests
00:19 < Alster> .
00:19  * intrigeri ok
00:20  * intrigeri raises
00:20 < djrom> intrigeri: go
00:20 < intrigeri> let's make a decision about docs.ind, then find where we can put rt
00:20 < intrigeri> about docs.indy,
00:21 < intrigeri> the various solutions are listed at the bottom of http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Devel/NewTechOrientation2005#Agenda
00:21 < intrigeri> we can host it freely in the UK
00:21  * jim raises
00:22 < intrigeri> just have to decide which box we buy and where, or to delegate the tech. details to someone
00:22 < intrigeri> .
00:22 < intrigeri> jim, gogogo
00:22 < jim> All things being equal, I'd prefer new
00:22 -!- superman [cgiirc@pool-71-96-14-215.dfw.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #meeting
00:23 < jim> that way we don't inherit someone else's ESD damage...
00:23 -!- superman [cgiirc@pool-71-96-14-215.dfw.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit]
00:23 < jim> Plus, there's a warranty...
00:23 < jim> .
00:23 < intrigeri> ESD ?
00:23 < jim> Electrostatic Discharge
00:23 < jim> Static zaps the mobo
00:23 <@logger> stack: empty
00:24  * intrigeri raises 
00:24 < djrom> intrigeri: go
00:24 < intrigeri> I obviously would prefer a new box for $1300 to a second-hand one for $1000
00:25 < intrigeri> if we can afford it
00:25 < intrigeri> TWiki eats *tons* of cpu
00:25 < intrigeri> I'd prefer to avoid the US->UK delivery too
00:25 < intrigeri> complicated, import taxes, etc.
00:26 < intrigeri> that's why I propose the first solution :  buy new box in the UK - £700 ($1350) + delivery (+VAT, maybe, but we should be able to avoid it)
00:27 < intrigeri> .
00:27  * momo agree with that
00:27  * djrom ditto
00:27 < intrigeri> any concerns / objections ?
00:28 < intrigeri> well
00:28  * Alster agrees with the first solution
00:28  * elfo agree
00:28 < intrigeri> we can say we've reached a consensus, can't we ?
00:28  * pabs agrees and thinks the new docs server needs a good name
00:28 < jim> I think so
00:28 < hep> agree
00:28 < mtoups> yes
00:28  * bertagaz too
00:28 -!- briks [irc@localhost] has quit [Quit: have to go]
00:28 < djrom> if we got a consensus on that
00:29 < mtoups> i just think we should try to relieve load on docs with some squid proxies.  but we should still put it on a good box
00:29 < djrom> we still have to decide where to put rt
00:29  * Alster proposes to found the imc-server-naming working group
00:29 < djrom> and keys.indy
00:29 < hep> i can get squids
00:29  * Alster raises hand
00:29 < intrigeri> Alster, go
00:29  * elfo has always had problem finding names for machines
00:30 < Alster> it should be noted that RT needs access to a local mail server
00:30  * bertagaz raises
00:30 < Alster> (or the other way around)
00:30 < Alster> thus it quilifies for some server which already runs a mail server
00:31  * bertagaz unraise (one thing at a time, see key after rt...)
00:31 < Alster> maybe sarai2 - which currently serves as a development server for listwork - could be put to even better use that way
00:31  * djrom raises
00:31  * mtoups raises
00:31 < intrigeri> djrom, gogogo
00:31 < Alster> also, some of the keyserver codebases allow for receivng keys by email, too
00:31 < Alster> so it might be a good idea to put them onto a mail server box, too
00:31 < Alster> .
00:32 < djrom> I don't think this mail server things is a real concern
00:32 < bertagaz> intrigeri -> u have problems waiting for the point... :]
00:32  * intrigeri raises
00:32 < djrom> because in every machine we havbe a mail server, I think
00:32 < djrom> .
00:33  * bertagaz raises
00:33 < bertagaz> mtoups?
00:34 < intrigeri> well, we're trying to know where we'll host a piece of software nobody has taken responsibility to setup + manage yet 
00:34 < intrigeri> hum
00:34 < intrigeri> .
00:34 < mtoups> in reply to alster, regarding sarai2 -- i don't think we can expect to get that big ass box on good hosting.  the old colo wanted money and has probably kicked us out, i don't know if stefani even got a chance to get the box
00:35 < mtoups> so... don't count on that just yet, until we can talk to stefani about that situation (done)
00:35 < intrigeri> bertagaz, gogogo
00:35 < bertagaz> this is ur turn intrigeri
00:35 < intrigeri> bertagaz, go
00:35 < bertagaz> ok
00:35 < bertagaz> why not putting keyserver in ahimsa
00:36 < bertagaz> and i agree with intrigeri for rt
00:36 < bertagaz> we should wait someone wants to do the job
00:36 < bertagaz> .
00:36 < intrigeri> to sum up :
00:36  * Alster raises
00:36 < bertagaz> :)
00:36 < intrigeri> Alster, go
00:37 < Alster> i would like to take responsibility for RT if i get some support from someone more experienced in sysadmin for the beginning
00:37 < Alster> .
00:38  * bertagaz raises
00:38 < intrigeri> bertagaz, go
00:38 < bertagaz> i would like to work on it too
00:38 < bertagaz> with help indeed
00:38 < bertagaz> .
00:38 < bertagaz> so the question still open in fact...
00:39  * intrigeri raises
00:39 < bertagaz> intrigeri go
00:40 < intrigeri> we lack information, it seems, so I propose: bertagaz + Alster try to find a place to host RT, bertagaz + elfo try to find a home for keys
00:40 < intrigeri> .
00:40 < jim> works for me
00:40  * djrom completely agree
00:40  * Alster is fine with that
00:40  * momo yep
00:40  * bertagaz too
00:41 < hep> agree
00:41 < intrigeri> ok, meeting finished
00:41 < hep> ok
00:41  * pabs agrees, perhaps combine them?
00:41 < djrom> and thanks everybody :)
00:41 < intrigeri> Alster, do you mind if we do not talk about "how did you come here ?" ?
00:41  * elfo agree
00:42 < jim> right.  go visit family now - see you all later.
00:42 < Alster> intrigeri, i don't get you?
00:42 < elfo> bye jim 
00:42 < djrom> jim: bye
00:42 -!- xmux [irc@localhost] has joined #meeting
00:42 -!- jim [~pjirc@c-24-125-21-247.va.client2.attbi.com] has quit [Quit: jim]
00:42 -!- djrom changed the topic of #meeting to: meeting finished !
00:43 < intrigeri> Alster, we added to the end of the agenda the thing you were talking of : "how did you newcomers get the information for this meeting ?"
00:43 < Alster> ah ok :)
00:43 < elfo> i can tell you alster
00:43 < intrigeri> Alster, but I'm tired 
00:43 < Alster> np intrigeri, doen't need to be an official part of the meeting
00:43 < Alster> elfo, i'm listening ;)
00:44 < elfo> Alster: easy... intrigeri sent me a mail
00:44 < elfo> :)
00:44 -!- pabs changed the topic of #meeting to: meeting finished ! || chitchat time :)
00:44 < djrom> pabs: :)
00:44 -!- Alster changed the topic of #meeting to: meeting finished ! where's the logs? ;) || chitchat time :)
00:44 < intrigeri> elfo, :)
00:44 < intrigeri> Alster, I'll publish the logs soon
00:44 < elfo> i know intrigeri from a 2 weeks meeting "Chantiers des Tanneries", and i'm around in #tech and indymedia from 2002
00:45 < elfo> (basically seeking help from Zapata  :)
00:45 < elfo> .
00:45 < Alster> "Chantiers des Tanneries" is that 'singers of the christmas tree' in english?
00:45 < elfo> not at all
00:45 < mtoups> so for post-meeting chitchat, i'd be curious to hear what people think about the "pie in the sky" thread on imc-tech :)  ie, integrating network services/authentication ...
00:45 < elfo> i can't translate it....
00:46 < Alster> np elfo, thanks for th einfoi
00:46 < pabs> mtoups: sounds like the way of the future to me :)
00:46 < Alster> einfoi=info
00:46 < elfo> Alster: 2 weeks of information sharing, about free software, libertarian practicies etc..
00:46 < Alster> ah cool
00:46 < elfo> .
00:46 < Alster> mtoups, without having read it yet, sounds like futurama, to me, too
00:47 < pabs> momo: i was also thinking of a contributors.indymedia.org part, for people who post newswire stories on various indys
00:47 < Alster> and the future starts now
00:47 < pabs> er, mtoups 
00:47  * elfo didn't read it, mtoups 
00:47 < mtoups> pabs: maybe spammers.indymedia.org :)
00:47 < pabs> hehe
00:47 < mtoups> i really dislike people who post the same story to 100 IMCs
00:47 < pabs> that too
00:47 < mtoups> about that, i was thinking we should set up our own RBL system or something
00:48 < mtoups> or razor or something content based
00:48 < Alster> "ITDN - indymedia text distribution network"
00:48 < elfo> YEAH
00:48  * pabs wonders how cross-posts dealt with in the usenet days
00:48  * pabs reminds newcomers about ivdn - video.indymedia.rog
00:48 < Alster> mtoups, yeah, had that on my mind, too
00:48 < elfo> i like that.. metadata, p2p networks, redundancy.... wow :)
00:49 < Alster> rog the org!
00:49  * elfo asks pabs how it is supposed to work video.indymedia.org
00:49  * pabs throws up the idea of a .imc/.cmi/.indymedia/.etc tld
00:49 < elfo> i went there some times but never actually get it
00:49 < mtoups> oh yeah, we could run our own root nameserver
00:50 < Alster> hey, we could run our own internet!
00:50  * pabs points elfo at lexi and occam and the twiki page...
00:50 < elfo> ok