╨╧рб▒с>■  ЪЬ■   ЦЧШЩ                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ье┴й@ Ё┐ЕJjbjb▄б▄б %°╢├╢├ЕD      lввввввв╢╢╢╢╢ ┬Ф╢7 &bbbbbbbbЇ Ў Ў Ў Ў Ў Ў ,] }и" вbbbbb" Ц ввbbbЦ Ц Ц brвbвbЇ Ц ╢╢ввввbЇ Ц ^Ц Ї ввЇ V ╞A╛╢╢╘┬Ї Ї 7 7 Ї %Ц %Ї Ц ├хNov 21 14:56:04 --> You are now talking on #oceania Nov 21 14:56:04 --- Topic for #oceania is ASIA PACIFIC SOLIDARITY MEETING http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Local/AsiaPacificSolidarityMeeting1 Nov 21 14:56:04 --- Topic for #oceania set by wowi!irc@localhost at Sun Nov 21 14:03:06 2004 Nov 21 14:56:04 --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to wowi Nov 21 14:56:07 hrm. Nov 21 14:56:11 :) Nov 21 15:01:15 --- ngaur-afk is now known as ngaur Nov 21 15:03:15 --> Vic (~shadowirc@203.145.183.210) has joined #oceania Nov 21 15:03:23 hi Vic :) Nov 21 15:03:26 --- ngaur gives channel operator status to Vic Nov 21 15:03:42 hi everyone... I am from India Nov 21 15:03:51 hi wowi Nov 21 15:04:02 hi Vic Nov 21 15:04:03 nice to mee you :) Nov 21 15:04:13 i'm from perth indy Nov 21 15:04:14 good to be here Nov 21 15:04:27 perhaps we'll do introductions when other arrive Nov 21 15:04:32 :) Nov 21 15:04:34 Vic: did anivar get in contact with you? Nov 21 15:04:38 i hope more people from India join in... but not many people here are used to irc Nov 21 15:04:58 he did... i asked him to pl try and log in... he is busy with exams Nov 21 15:05:09 ah, cool Nov 21 15:05:30 * pabs also from perthimc Nov 21 15:05:38 great.. there's an oceania person who plans to go to asia source.. Nov 21 15:05:44 hoepfully he'll come too Nov 21 15:05:50 i'll see if i can call him.. Nov 21 15:05:53 * wowi wanders off Nov 21 15:06:03 great... hope this meeting goes well Nov 21 15:06:35 me too Nov 21 15:06:52 we have a whole heap of burma people driving to net connection to join us Nov 21 15:07:46 --> anivar (~anivar@202.88.229.36) has joined #oceania Nov 21 15:07:56 fantastic... are they in india? Nov 21 15:08:03 welcome anivar Nov 21 15:08:09 :) Nov 21 15:08:10 glad you could make it Nov 21 15:08:11 hi vic Nov 21 15:08:13 hullo anivar Nov 21 15:08:24 hai wowi Nov 21 15:09:36 hoi anivar Nov 21 15:09:54 hi pabs Nov 21 15:10:15 vic i got an invitation from CED banglure for there Documentation centre's meeting Nov 21 15:10:23 i gave u'r Id to them Nov 21 15:10:38 --> shekhar (~shekhar@203.145.183.210) has joined #oceania Nov 21 15:10:46 yes i just heard about it Nov 21 15:10:55 --- pabs gives channel operator status to shekhar Nov 21 15:10:56 hai shekhar Nov 21 15:10:57 i am actually in bangalore now, for two weeks Nov 21 15:11:07 --- pabs gives channel operator status to anivar Nov 21 15:11:10 hello all. vickram just called me into this channel. Nov 21 15:11:11 i thought the ced meeting is in Mumbai in december? Nov 21 15:11:11 It is on Dec 10-14 Nov 21 15:11:18 banglore Nov 21 15:11:22 oh darn Nov 21 15:11:53 oneworld, indiatogether counter current etc r participating in it Nov 21 15:11:58 ok... shekar is here Nov 21 15:12:22 for the ced meeting please join http://lists.crit.org.in/mailman/listinfo/dcm Nov 21 15:12:33 and see http://crit.org.in/networks/dcm Nov 21 15:12:39 ty Nov 21 15:12:45 k Nov 21 15:14:24 great.. andy gdm and shane are joining in soon Nov 21 15:14:27 anivar r u here in bangalore? Nov 21 15:14:41 No in kerala now Nov 21 15:14:42 imc india peeps, andy will probably be going tto asia source Nov 21 15:15:08 ok Nov 21 15:15:23 unfortunately i am fm mumbai Nov 21 15:15:30 i am also participating. Nov 21 15:15:35 but if he plans coming thru mumbai wd love to meet Nov 21 15:15:35 * halo back Nov 21 15:15:36 great :) Nov 21 15:16:20 --> gdm (irc@localhost) has joined #oceania Nov 21 15:16:21 --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to gdm Nov 21 15:16:30 salut gdm :) Nov 21 15:16:31 hi gdm Nov 21 15:16:36 salut! Nov 21 15:16:42 just gonna grab food, Nov 21 15:16:47 brb Nov 21 15:17:40 when we start? Nov 21 15:17:50 good point ;) Nov 21 15:18:00 shall we wait for the burma people? Nov 21 15:18:03 soon Nov 21 15:18:15 we're still waiting for a truckload of burma imc peeps Nov 21 15:18:22 and some filipinos too Nov 21 15:18:25 we need to leave here in abt half an hour Nov 21 15:18:31 ok. Nov 21 15:18:37 sorry Nov 21 15:18:40 well we can start talking now Nov 21 15:18:46 yes Nov 21 15:18:48 ok Nov 21 15:18:49 agenda: http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Local/AsiaPacificSolidarityMeeting1 Nov 21 15:19:00 there are things i've already discussed with qc, manila, and burma Nov 21 15:19:15 my comp is havbing probs running the browser... makes life v difficult Nov 21 15:19:19 ok Nov 21 15:19:31 but i will check it soon Nov 21 15:19:45 ok Nov 21 15:19:57 so.. who wants to facilitate? Nov 21 15:20:03 what we've been discussing in oceania Nov 21 15:20:10 (do we need it?) Nov 21 15:20:22 what we've been discussing in oceania is solidarity with asia pacifica imcs.. Nov 21 15:20:34 and qc has suggested an informal network.. Nov 21 15:20:38 well.. no harm in having one ;) Nov 21 15:20:41 for the asia pacific Nov 21 15:20:57 there are to basic ideas for starters Nov 21 15:21:01 that have been discussed.. Nov 21 15:21:04 ok... pt 1... to talk from india perspective Nov 21 15:21:21 yup? Nov 21 15:21:38 we do not have a formal network of any kind rt now Nov 21 15:21:44 in india Nov 21 15:21:53 v few local participants Nov 21 15:21:55 is there only one imc? Nov 21 15:21:57 yes.. Nov 21 15:21:59 yes Nov 21 15:22:00 mostly fm us and europe Nov 21 15:22:11 there was a mumbai imc but it died Nov 21 15:22:18 i guess the idea of such a network would be to consolidate efforts of already acitve imc people Nov 21 15:22:23 yes.. Nov 21 15:22:52 i really like the idea of an informal network... but it needs loads of good people to make it work Nov 21 15:23:11 we have many contributors... for writing Nov 21 15:23:13 the other idea of such a network would be so that expats/exiles and the diasporic asian community could also help... so that there is less work for local imcistas Nov 21 15:23:19 and many visitors to india Nov 21 15:23:24 Vic: i agree Nov 21 15:23:29 it's still early days.. Nov 21 15:23:33 <-- shekhar has quit (Quit: shekhar) Nov 21 15:23:38 there are 2 ideas to build it though.. Nov 21 15:24:02 1. a list.. for interested people.. to skill share/ work collaboratively/ mutual aid projects Nov 21 15:24:14 understood... but my experience is that the expats are mostly students who hv other commitments Nov 21 15:24:16 2. a solidarity call out.. to get more people involved Nov 21 15:24:28 --> shekhar (~shekhar@203.145.183.210) has joined #oceania Nov 21 15:24:34 Vic: yes.. we all do.. but there are surely some people.. it is worth a try Nov 21 15:24:39 2 is v critical for us Nov 21 15:24:45 --> alext (cgiirc@210.213.180.23) has joined #oceania Nov 21 15:24:49 yes definitely Nov 21 15:24:52 hi alext ! Nov 21 15:24:59 --- wowi gives channel operator status to alext shekhar Nov 21 15:25:18 i know... emotionally i am with you but practically it has been a huge repsonsibility and not much help that i can depend on Nov 21 15:25:33 <-- alext has quit (Remote host closed the connection) Nov 21 15:25:41 --> alex (cgiirc@210.213.180.23) has joined #oceania Nov 21 15:25:53 hi wowi! Nov 21 15:25:53 Vic: i understand Nov 21 15:26:03 Vic: indymedia mumbai and india both died because they need a community to sustain them and the people involved are young and move on quickly... Nov 21 15:26:05 hi everyone! made a mistaske typing my own name hehehe Nov 21 15:26:10 my hope was that more people would get involevd to alleviate the load Nov 21 15:26:23 especially people in oceania who have good and regular net access Nov 21 15:26:27 so i wd welcome more peep getting involved ,... in india and out Nov 21 15:26:28 --- pabs gives channel operator status to alex Nov 21 15:26:34 we have a huge asian community in australia for example Nov 21 15:26:44 Vic: exactly Nov 21 15:26:49 here was the idea http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Local/AsiaPacificSolidarityCall Nov 21 15:26:50 yes if that happens i for one will be able to do more myself Nov 21 15:27:00 to be written/ signed by a number of imcs Nov 21 15:27:40 right Nov 21 15:27:51 do we hv a draft on wiki? Nov 21 15:28:00 Vic: what do you think of the idea of a list? so we can continue working on this project together.. that way people can do as much or as little as part of an informal collective committed to an asia-pacific project Nov 21 15:28:15 Vic: i can write one and put one up this week if you like Nov 21 15:28:23 we hv a list but again not much action on it Nov 21 15:28:32 i need help running the list too :-) Nov 21 15:28:40 sorry to whinge Nov 21 15:28:43 NO! Nov 21 15:28:44 :) Nov 21 15:28:49 what kind of help? Nov 21 15:29:02 housekeeping... call to action Nov 21 15:29:03 kamusta alex :) (introduction pls) Nov 21 15:29:21 ping Nov 21 15:29:23 ok Nov 21 15:30:00 perhaps anivar can help with your list Vic ? Nov 21 15:30:13 housekeeping is not so bad... tho a lot of spam... but to stir things up we need more participation Nov 21 15:30:20 ok Nov 21 15:30:20 Vic: as always Nov 21 15:30:22 i can Nov 21 15:30:25 :) Nov 21 15:30:47 well when your exams get over you are going to get involved, anivar Nov 21 15:31:06 i anm fre from Dec Nov 21 15:31:14 free Nov 21 15:31:15 no pt getting haunted by the Guilt God Nov 21 15:31:20 :)) Nov 21 15:31:34 (me likes that.. i will use it) Nov 21 15:31:49 * wowi likes that.. i will use it) Nov 21 15:31:55 say tks to Douglas Adams Nov 21 15:32:05 or thank google Nov 21 15:32:10 :) Nov 21 15:32:28 :-) Nov 21 15:33:22 --> burma_crew (cgiirc@tproxy8.anet.net.th) has joined #oceania Nov 21 15:33:24 ok... everyone... does anyone think a formal network is a practical idea? Nov 21 15:33:39 ok.. so what do you think about the formation of an Asia-Pacific list.. so that we can collaborate on solidarirty projects and the solidarity c all out?.. it will also be usefull for co-ordinating mutual aid appeals.. like the one we're working on atm.. (an add and article in scoop magazine about imc-burma) Nov 21 15:33:39 welcome burma Nov 21 15:33:40 YAY! Nov 21 15:33:47 welcome everyone! Nov 21 15:33:52 mingala ba :) Nov 21 15:34:06 <-- burma_crew has quit (Remote host closed the connection) Nov 21 15:34:08 :(\ Nov 21 15:34:11 ooops Nov 21 15:34:15 hehe Nov 21 15:34:21 they'll be back.. Nov 21 15:34:29 where are they do you know wowi? Nov 21 15:34:32 --> burma_crew (cgiirc@tproxy8.anet.net.th) has joined #oceania Nov 21 15:34:35 i would be keen to contribute to a formal network, and try to get people in new zealand involved Nov 21 15:34:41 cool :) Nov 21 15:34:51 (we have a large migrant population here too) Nov 21 15:34:57 cool... but when we say formal what is impied? Nov 21 15:35:02 implied Nov 21 15:35:03 south west thailand.. Nov 21 15:35:16 i think Nov 21 15:35:17 <-- burma_crew has quit (Remote host closed the connection) Nov 21 15:35:18 mae sot? Nov 21 15:35:21 ah ok... so safe for the moment Nov 21 15:35:24 mae sot.. Nov 21 15:35:25 yes Nov 21 15:35:39 they do everything in thailand.. on the burmese border Nov 21 15:35:55 i think informal will be better.. Nov 21 15:36:01 i know... the ind border is not such a good place anymore Nov 21 15:36:07 that way people dont feel pushed to do what they cant Nov 21 15:36:14 well.. a network of some sort :) Nov 21 15:36:17 :) Nov 21 15:36:20 esp for such people that is exactly the pt Nov 21 15:36:33 --> burma_crew (cgiirc@tproxy8.anet.net.th) has joined #oceania Nov 21 15:36:38 the visibility is itself not such a good thing Nov 21 15:36:40 yes.. formality will come when needed if needed Nov 21 15:36:46 maybe an email list, a wiki page, regular meetings..? Nov 21 15:36:52 yes.. all that Nov 21 15:36:57 rt... so the question is... formal or informal Nov 21 15:37:03 the email list is the most imp Nov 21 15:37:05 def a list... my vote yes Nov 21 15:37:08 the rest can be done fromt here. Nov 21 15:37:09 yes Nov 21 15:37:12 great :) Nov 21 15:37:19 :) Nov 21 15:37:23 :-) Nov 21 15:37:26 i think formality is not necessary till it has developed Nov 21 15:37:27 --- ngaur gives channel operator status to burma_crew Nov 21 15:37:48 till imcs throughout the asia pacific have become more stable and prolific Nov 21 15:37:48 heya burma_crew! Nov 21 15:37:48 heya burma_crew! Nov 21 15:37:49 anyway formality is not the imc way Nov 21 15:37:57 exactly :) Nov 21 15:38:05 * wowi waves at burma_crew !! Nov 21 15:38:10 mingala ba!! Nov 21 15:38:19 but we need to get more people in india see value in what imc is Nov 21 15:38:27 yes.. definitely Nov 21 15:38:36 would it be a goodthing to try to have more acia-pacific stuff happen within oceania lists before splitting it off to it's own lists? Nov 21 15:38:39 am sure much similar in other parts of asia Nov 21 15:38:47 and more indian people outside india to get involved.. doing support etc Nov 21 15:38:47 might help tie the two together Nov 21 15:39:00 some of my friends in fsug's are interested to get involved with india imc Nov 21 15:39:09 well, we have a lot of people living outside india, that's true ;-) Nov 21 15:39:10 ngaur: i think it's important this project is autonomous of oceania Nov 21 15:39:18 i know that a socialist group here in nz has recently done a lot of work in india and may have some good contacts there Nov 21 15:39:27 the suggestion came from qc at the oceania conf for that reason.. Nov 21 15:39:47 asian pacific imcs have diff needs and contexts to the majority of oceania imcs. Nov 21 15:39:52 --> s (irc@localhost) has joined #oceania Nov 21 15:39:55 hoi s Nov 21 15:39:58 --- wowi gives channel operator status to s Nov 21 15:40:01 at some point everyone needs an identity... but groupthink is a good cocoon for young movements Nov 21 15:40:16 yes Nov 21 15:40:17 exactly Nov 21 15:40:23 the point is to start something Nov 21 15:40:26 :) Nov 21 15:40:27 rt Nov 21 15:40:30 it will evolve Nov 21 15:40:42 yo err. hello all :) Nov 21 15:40:50 hey s man Nov 21 15:41:04 shall we do brief intros? Nov 21 15:41:10 my vote... a list and a wiki Nov 21 15:41:17 done and done Nov 21 15:41:18 :) Nov 21 15:41:21 good idea wowi Nov 21 15:41:23 if others agree Nov 21 15:41:23 me... india imc Nov 21 15:41:32 living in mumbai Nov 21 15:42:07 perth imc /oceania imc / global imc.. maybe joining burma crew next yr Nov 21 15:42:10 * halo is in new zealand/aotearoa.. aoteroa imc volunteer :) Nov 21 15:42:19 me from india living in kerala Nov 21 15:42:24 * pabs is perthimc geek Nov 21 15:42:27 heya, i'm an indykid from canada livin in australia for the moment... not especially active in any local atm. Nov 21 15:42:31 perth is in australia Nov 21 15:42:59 * ngaur is from new zealand, but now lives in tasmania, australia Nov 21 15:43:00 me, from indonesia, living n jakarta Nov 21 15:43:18 sorry we hv to go now... shekhar and myself... but look fwd to getting news of the wiki... and the list... can help getting a list going on ris eup if that is the consensus Nov 21 15:43:29 great Nov 21 15:43:35 sounds great! Nov 21 15:43:38 we'll talk soon.. thanks for joining us Nov 21 15:43:46 will you put details on the wiki? Nov 21 15:43:47 can you query me your email Vic ? Nov 21 15:43:49 please keep me cc-ed to any indymedia correspondence on shekhar@crit.org.in Nov 21 15:43:50 seeya vic. Nov 21 15:43:54 sure Nov 21 15:43:58 seeya vic Nov 21 15:44:02 bye guys Nov 21 15:44:05 and of course imc already does wiki... we just need to get the base address from where this will spawn Nov 21 15:44:10 bye guys Nov 21 15:44:11 hop we can meet later Nov 21 15:44:14 :) Nov 21 15:44:17 or whatever Nov 21 15:44:18 bye :) Nov 21 15:44:18 pga asia! Nov 21 15:44:18 bye Nov 21 15:44:19 ;-) Nov 21 15:44:26 yea Nov 21 15:44:32 we'll talk onlist Nov 21 15:44:34 ;) Nov 21 15:44:36 bye Nov 21 15:44:43 yes... cya Nov 21 15:44:54 <-- burma_crew has quit (Remote host closed the connection) Nov 21 15:45:08 ty Nov 21 15:45:14 <-- Vic has quit (Quit: so long and thanks for the fish) Nov 21 15:45:15 --> aubrey (cgiirc@203.76.211.74) has joined #oceania Nov 21 15:45:22 --- s is now known as s|afk Nov 21 15:45:32 hi aubrey Nov 21 15:45:38 we were just doing intros Nov 21 15:45:42 --- wowi gives channel operator status to aubrey Nov 21 15:45:50 is tonyo joining us too? Nov 21 15:45:59 hi there, so what did i miss? Nov 21 15:46:02 --> burma_crew (cgiirc@210.203.189.206) has joined #oceania Nov 21 15:46:09 --- halo gives channel operator status to burma_crew Nov 21 15:46:12 <-- shekhar (~shekhar@203.145.183.210) has left #oceania Nov 21 15:46:30 i just don't know, havent talked to him Nov 21 15:46:31 ok to recap Nov 21 15:47:02 a couple of imc india people have supported the creation of an asia-pacific list and wiki Nov 21 15:47:42 where i will post the draft of a solidarity call out letter to be worked on collaboratively, signed andd sent Nov 21 15:48:04 for solidarity and support to expats/exiles and the diasporic asian communities Nov 21 15:48:28 the idea is more indy involvement and support even from those who aren't local.. Nov 21 15:48:42 so.. how does qc feel about a list and a wiki? Nov 21 15:48:55 and for that matter.. burma and jakarta Nov 21 15:49:49 asia-pacific list? great starting point, i think. Nov 21 15:49:57 :) Nov 21 15:49:58 cool Nov 21 15:50:00 <-- burma_crew has quit (Remote host closed the connection) Nov 21 15:50:02 --> ferret (irc@localhost) has joined #oceania Nov 21 15:50:03 --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to ferret Nov 21 15:50:11 heya ferret! :) Nov 21 15:50:12 arm_da_spirit: what do you think? Nov 21 15:50:17 hi all Nov 21 15:50:26 --> burma_crew (cgiirc@210.203.189.206) has joined #oceania Nov 21 15:50:42 --- halo gives channel operator status to burma_crew Nov 21 15:50:43 i agree with the wiki n a list Nov 21 15:50:52 * wowi holds onto burma_crew incase they fall out again Nov 21 15:50:57 arm_da_spirit: great Nov 21 15:50:59 <-- burma_crew has quit (Remote host closed the connection) Nov 21 15:51:07 i figure people can work from there with ideas Nov 21 15:51:10 you let go wowi! Nov 21 15:51:13 and projects Nov 21 15:51:16 :( Nov 21 15:51:19 oops!! Nov 21 15:51:33 --> burma_crew (cgiirc@210.203.189.206) has joined #oceania Nov 21 15:51:43 alex: where are you? Nov 21 15:51:44 i had to type.. i'll use my toes Nov 21 15:51:49 --- halo gives channel operator status to burma_crew Nov 21 15:52:07 still here Nov 21 15:52:09 some ideas.. from oceania.. http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Local/ImcOceaniaAsia-PacificSolidarity Nov 21 15:52:13 halo: qc Nov 21 15:52:20 ah :) Nov 21 15:52:48 ok.. the other problem is.. will the list fcn in english? Nov 21 15:52:57 or shall there be a translations policy.. Nov 21 15:52:58 <-- burma_crew has quit (Remote host closed the connection) Nov 21 15:53:03 oh no! Nov 21 15:53:07 i need stronger toes.. Nov 21 15:53:15 i'll send them the logs... Nov 21 15:53:20 a translation policy may be necessary Nov 21 15:53:29 yes.. Nov 21 15:53:46 yaa we need it Nov 21 15:53:51 that can be determined further on the list i think Nov 21 15:53:56 anivar: what language? Nov 21 15:54:31 my language is malayalam one among 18 major languages in india Nov 21 15:54:39 oh dear :( Nov 21 15:54:42 this may be hard.. Nov 21 15:54:45 :-) Nov 21 15:54:46 :0 Nov 21 15:54:50 hihi Nov 21 15:54:55 :) Nov 21 15:55:35 just a joke Nov 21 15:55:41 I think we should look more at languages that span geography Nov 21 15:55:49 shall we start the list in english + 1 translation, and work out how to tackle language divides.. ? Nov 21 15:55:51 ngaur: ? Nov 21 15:55:54 ngaur: agreed Nov 21 15:55:56 perhaps we could cater for those who are on the list at first..? Nov 21 15:56:05 sure Nov 21 15:56:14 good idea, halo Nov 21 15:56:18 fine Nov 21 15:56:20 surely there will be overlaps Nov 21 15:56:27 hrm.. Nov 21 15:56:30 atm.. no Nov 21 15:56:37 but hopefully soon :) Nov 21 15:56:54 (i mean, not all individuals on the list will need separate translations..) Nov 21 15:57:00 sure Nov 21 15:57:42 the other thing is to work on translations as part of a wider project to get more asian languages on imdymedia.org Nov 21 15:59:20 --- Disconnected (). **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Nov 21 15:59:20 2004 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Nov 21 16:04:37 2004 Nov 21 16:04:37 --> You are now talking on #oceania Nov 21 16:04:38 --- Topic for #oceania is ASIA PACIFIC SOLIDARITY MEETING http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Local/AsiaPacificSolidarityMeeting1 Nov 21 16:04:38 --- Topic for #oceania set by wowi!irc@localhost at Sun Nov 21 14:03:06 2004 Nov 21 16:04:39 doh Nov 21 16:04:41 ? Nov 21 16:04:41 oops Nov 21 16:04:45 :) Nov 21 16:04:46 thanks Nov 21 16:04:49 --- pabs gives channel operator status to wowi_ Nov 21 16:04:50 * ngaur laughs at himself Nov 21 16:04:55 wowi: wrong one Nov 21 16:05:01 --- msh :Unknown command Nov 21 16:05:06 >nickserv< ghost wowi Nov 21 16:05:06 -NickServ- Password Incorrect Nov 21 16:05:09 <-- halo has kicked wowi from #oceania (wowi) Nov 21 16:05:22 >nickserv< ghost wowi Nov 21 16:05:23 -NickServ- [wowi] has been killed Nov 21 16:05:27 what did i miss Nov 21 16:05:31 can someone query me Nov 21 16:05:38 nothing Nov 21 16:05:45 did people get my last paste.. re translation project? Nov 21 16:05:46 just discussion of what happened to you Nov 21 16:05:48 hahah Nov 21 16:06:06 >nickserv< identify Nov 21 16:06:07 wowi_: no Nov 21 16:06:07 -NickServ- The nickname [wowi_] is not registered Nov 21 16:06:45 we started to wonder where we were in the agenda Nov 21 16:07:16 * ngaur wants to hear about the situation AP imc's are facing Nov 21 16:07:21 what are the problems? Nov 21 16:07:21 we were a little lost without you there.. :) Nov 21 16:07:30 well i was saying that working on asian translation needs to be part of a larger aim/project to get more asian language translations on indymed ia.org Nov 21 16:07:42 mmmm Nov 21 16:07:43 indeeed Nov 21 16:07:46 * halo agrees Nov 21 16:07:58 what happened to burma dudes? Nov 21 16:08:04 en <-> zh translation is very difficult I suspect Nov 21 16:08:06 wowi_: guest720 Nov 21 16:08:15 cool :) Nov 21 16:08:29 i hope that doesn't mean 720 burmese ;) Nov 21 16:08:31 hihi Nov 21 16:08:32 ok.. Nov 21 16:08:40 shall we plat PGA? Nov 21 16:08:45 or mutual aid projects? Nov 21 16:08:47 plat? Nov 21 16:08:50 plot Nov 21 16:08:54 plan Nov 21 16:08:55 :) Nov 21 16:09:07 --- You are now known as wowi Nov 21 16:09:32 -ChanServ- You are already opped on [#oceania] Nov 21 16:09:32 -ChanServ- You have been opped on all channels you have access to Nov 21 16:10:15 oh! Nov 21 16:10:20 we lost jeri!? Nov 21 16:10:23 ? Nov 21 16:10:30 arm_da_spirit Nov 21 16:10:35 oh yeah.. Nov 21 16:11:26 Could we have some more info on the situation with various IMCs Nov 21 16:11:34 <-- arm_da_spirit has quit (Remote host closed the connection) Nov 21 16:11:46 whats happening now, what the problems are, what should be happening Nov 21 16:12:42 security and sustainablity.. and ideas on what can be done.. Nov 21 16:12:57 --> arm_da_spirit (cgiirc@202.155.147.241) has joined #oceania Nov 21 16:13:02 hi jeri :) Nov 21 16:13:13 arrgh Nov 21 16:13:15 <-- guest720 has quit (Ping timeout: 604 seconds) Nov 21 16:13:26 i know that feeling ;) Nov 21 16:13:35 --- pabs gives channel operator status to arm_da_spirit Nov 21 16:13:40 Could we have some more info on the situation with various IMCs Nov 21 16:13:48 --> burma_crew1 (~jirc@210.203.189.206) has joined #oceania Nov 21 16:14:03 net connection is hard today it seems Nov 21 16:14:06 --- halo gives channel operator status to burma_crew1 Nov 21 16:14:16 no takers? Nov 21 16:14:23 sorry - lots of problems today Nov 21 16:14:30 :) np Nov 21 16:14:39 i'll email you any relevant infp Nov 21 16:14:41 info Nov 21 16:14:42 burma_crew: how's things going in burma? Nov 21 16:14:48 where are you up to Nov 21 16:14:49 hi hi Nov 21 16:14:49 and put the logs on the wiki Nov 21 16:15:38 interestting because of release of political prioisoers Nov 21 16:16:29 burma_crew1: hopefully we can get this camera and laptop to you soon.. Nov 21 16:16:48 how do you feel about an asia-pacific list and wiki? to start an informal network Nov 21 16:16:58 yes its good news Nov 21 16:17:04 great :) Nov 21 16:17:26 where are you up to in the meeting? Nov 21 16:18:04 well. we've agreed on a list and a wiki Nov 21 16:18:29 we can talk about solidarity.. and solving problems of security and sustainability Nov 21 16:18:31 equips Nov 21 16:18:37 encrypted lists Nov 21 16:18:38 etc Nov 21 16:18:49 or.. we can talk about plans to get to pga Nov 21 16:19:26 what do you think about exchanges between activists from asia pacific imcs Nov 21 16:19:36 ? Nov 21 16:19:39 tell us more :) Nov 21 16:19:45 that would be exciting! :) Nov 21 16:19:47 yes Nov 21 16:20:00 well if we can get money we can swap members Nov 21 16:20:14 hrm.. who did you have in mind for a swap? Nov 21 16:20:19 so someone form say the phillippines could come here for a few months Nov 21 16:20:36 and someone from here can go there Nov 21 16:20:42 and work Nov 21 16:20:44 but the money is an issue... there is little of it and bigger needs.. Nov 21 16:20:45 owwww... then? Nov 21 16:20:49 with ngos? Nov 21 16:21:08 i agree. money will always be an issue =) Nov 21 16:21:13 it's hard to get a few months clear to dedicate to work on an IMC in your own area Nov 21 16:21:18 interesting.. Nov 21 16:21:49 burma_crew1: what is the aim/reason for a swap? Nov 21 16:22:06 although exchange of people has been a trend to many orgs here in the philippines Nov 21 16:22:15 good for skill sharing and solidarity Nov 21 16:22:27 we can have a more direct link Nov 21 16:22:31 --> anivar_ (~anivar@202.88.229.36) has joined #oceania Nov 21 16:22:38 between people in the region Nov 21 16:22:43 perhaps it would be wise to build online stuff first? Nov 21 16:22:50 then try for that.. Nov 21 16:22:51 if we are serious in the exchange thing, we could make a formal paper or policy on that Nov 21 16:22:59 how would you propose it be funded? Nov 21 16:23:25 <-- anivar_ (~anivar@202.88.229.36) has left #oceania Nov 21 16:23:31 we could find a donor organisation maybe Nov 21 16:23:32 --> anivar_ (~anivar@202.88.229.36) has joined #oceania Nov 21 16:23:38 sure.. Nov 21 16:23:43 the usual is the host funds the guest/intern Nov 21 16:23:44 heya anivar Nov 21 16:23:45 like the global souoth fund Nov 21 16:24:09 would asia-pacific imcs not prefer that money be spent on equipment/spaces? i guess both can be done Nov 21 16:25:06 between here and philippines and indonesia it could be done cheaply Nov 21 16:25:21 perhaps then that could be up to the individual planning to do the exchange to find funding.. they could ofcourse apply to imc-finance/oceania- fiance and ask for support... but i disagree that such exchanges be made into formal policy. Nov 21 16:25:40 I suspect it's easier to get NGO funding to attend a conference or something, and then spend a bit longer in the place or en-route to work with other IMCs Nov 21 16:25:52 i think regional imcs has allied orgs that could help accommodate the intern Nov 21 16:26:18 i would think it would be a better use of money for people to be funded for events Nov 21 16:26:21 such as asia source Nov 21 16:26:26 then they could stay on Nov 21 16:26:51 such an event would ensure skill sharing and networking Nov 21 16:27:01 aubrey: ? Nov 21 16:27:02 back in a minute.. Nov 21 16:27:32 ngaur: i agree.. but again that would be up to the organising of the individual Nov 21 16:27:36 if there would be anough time to do that Nov 21 16:27:49 How many of the groups represented here are likely to get to the PGA meet in nepal? Nov 21 16:27:52 it doesn't seem like a project that can sustainably be organised regularly by imc Nov 21 16:28:16 burma if funding can be found. Nov 21 16:28:20 money will decide on our part Nov 21 16:28:23 myself Nov 21 16:28:49 aubrey: doens't qc have some funding from bulatlat et al? Nov 21 16:28:55 If there was a meet more central to these groups, would people be able to get there? Nov 21 16:29:19 well, we have been using the resources of bulatlat since alex and i write for it Nov 21 16:29:20 central.. ? Nov 21 16:29:25 oh ok.. Nov 21 16:29:29 geographical centre around thailand or malaysia Nov 21 16:29:39 nepal is pretty close Nov 21 16:29:40 possibly close to the PGA in time Nov 21 16:29:46 and nicely close to india Nov 21 16:30:00 it is very expensive for us to leave thailand Nov 21 16:30:10 because we don't have documentws Nov 21 16:30:13 yes. $1000 Nov 21 16:30:20 Au$100? Nov 21 16:30:24 Au$1000? Nov 21 16:30:40 yes Nov 21 16:30:41 what's a return flight from bangkok to calcutta worth? Nov 21 16:30:52 or is it about visa costs Nov 21 16:30:56 have you proposed to imc-finance and the global south fund? Nov 21 16:30:59 <-- anivar has quit (Ping timeout: 604 seconds) Nov 21 16:31:04 ngaur: visa Nov 21 16:31:17 i sent links to both to imc-burma Nov 21 16:31:20 500 australian to calcutta Nov 21 16:31:35 we e-mailed the global south fund Nov 21 16:31:39 great Nov 21 16:31:45 but no reply yet Nov 21 16:31:59 they give up to 500us Nov 21 16:32:31 Howmany of u r participatin in asiasource Nov 21 16:32:41 andy from sydney Nov 21 16:32:47 Hope we can meet there Nov 21 16:32:52 asia source has offers of funding Nov 21 16:32:57 for travel Nov 21 16:33:03 yaa Nov 21 16:33:30 --- ferret gives channel operator status to anivar_ Nov 21 16:33:32 we'd like to try and send someone Nov 21 16:33:39 if we can get money Nov 21 16:34:01 i think that planning to physically meet takes alot of co-ordination and funding and can be hard.. i think the focus should be on sustaining a network via online communication.. and thus getting the infrastructure to do this Nov 21 16:34:04 we'd definitely love to attend all the activities but.. Nov 21 16:34:49 . Nov 21 16:35:43 build the network 1st Nov 21 16:35:53 imc oceania has a small amount of money to give.. but the idea was to give that to supporting asian imcs through much needed equipment.. Nov 21 16:36:01 and to support as many imcs as possible Nov 21 16:36:06 arm_da_spirit: i agree :) Nov 21 16:36:11 perhaps a regional meet would be something we could plan for in the medium-term..? Nov 21 16:36:19 long term. Nov 21 16:36:22 i would say Nov 21 16:36:25 ok Nov 21 16:36:30 unless funding can be found Nov 21 16:36:30 that's good =) Nov 21 16:36:37 then we could all get together and network :) Nov 21 16:36:44 we can all work on that ;) Nov 21 16:36:50 perhaps around another conference too Nov 21 16:37:01 next oceania conf isn't till 2006 Nov 21 16:37:07 in nz :P Nov 21 16:37:07 sounds great Nov 21 16:37:08 hehe Nov 21 16:37:20 really? in nz?? Nov 21 16:37:21 =) Nov 21 16:37:25 YUP! Nov 21 16:37:30 you're organising it Nov 21 16:37:30 oooh goody Nov 21 16:37:33 when in 2006? Nov 21 16:37:33 i'll help :) Nov 21 16:37:41 nothing organised.. Nov 21 16:37:46 ok Nov 21 16:37:52 * halo wonders where she'll be in 2006 Nov 21 16:37:54 it was just proposed that next yr is too soon Nov 21 16:37:58 ok. Nov 21 16:38:03 well, still have enough time to do that Nov 21 16:38:06 burma_crew1: do you use gpg? Nov 21 16:38:16 and have you thouhgt of using an encrypted list? Nov 21 16:38:17 no Nov 21 16:38:33 2006 is a long-enough time to scout for funding :) Nov 21 16:38:34 wowi: could be difficult if a lot of their access is from cafes Nov 21 16:38:34 although the idea of meeting somewhere more central has its appeals too.. Nov 21 16:38:41 ah yes. Nov 21 16:38:56 well.. when they get the laptop Nov 21 16:38:57 yes we want to start using encryption Nov 21 16:39:02 great Nov 21 16:39:05 with the laptops :) Nov 21 16:39:27 https access to a web mail server that decrypts would be the best bet Nov 21 16:39:44 ?? Nov 21 16:40:14 burma: you can use https which is an encrypted web connection to connect to a mail server Nov 21 16:40:21 2006?! Nov 21 16:40:24 eg https://server/ type urls Nov 21 16:40:46 http://www.tacticaltech.org/asiasource Nov 21 16:40:53 for those interested. Nov 21 16:41:29 let me see Nov 21 16:42:55 arm_da_spirit, aubrey, anivar_ : you should all apply for global south funding, they are offering US$500 for ea collective Nov 21 16:43:02 i will fwd the details to your lists Nov 21 16:43:28 okey Nov 21 16:43:41 we will, we are in need of computers esp if we are in the field Nov 21 16:43:47 global south, th web? Nov 21 16:43:59 i'm not sure.. Nov 21 16:44:01 please do so, ill check for it. Nov 21 16:44:06 i'll fwd it Nov 21 16:44:08 tnx wowi! Nov 21 16:44:13 thx Nov 21 16:44:47 is there anything you guys wanna talk to eachtother about? Nov 21 16:45:32 would you all think that meeting regularly, ie monthly, would be usefull? Nov 21 16:46:13 wowi: definitely Nov 21 16:46:17 monthly is very good Nov 21 16:46:28 ok. just make it a point that we will reach something.. Nov 21 16:46:38 yeah, good Nov 21 16:46:51 sofar we've agreed on an asia-pacific discussion/collaboration list, wiki, monthly meetings, and to start work on a solidarity call out Nov 21 16:46:53 great :) Nov 21 16:47:14 =) Nov 21 16:47:18 do you all want and #asia-pacific room? Nov 21 16:47:24 :) Nov 21 16:47:30 its good Nov 21 16:47:38 room in what? Nov 21 16:47:40 yes Nov 21 16:47:44 here in irc Nov 21 16:47:45 dat sounds good Nov 21 16:47:46 :) Nov 21 16:47:48 like #oceania Nov 21 16:47:53 but #asia-pacific Nov 21 16:47:55 sure :) Nov 21 16:48:05 cool :) keep it autonomous Nov 21 16:48:15 there will always be crossover and collaboration Nov 21 16:48:26 but it's nice to have your own space ;) Nov 21 16:48:32 yup :) Nov 21 16:48:33 would it be rude to know who am i talking to? apologies =) i mean short profile Nov 21 16:48:36 * halo agrees Nov 21 16:48:38 so you guys dont have to hear about bimc ;) Nov 21 16:49:03 aubrey: who's that in ref too? Nov 21 16:49:04 im aubrey of imc-qc philippines.. Nov 21 16:49:17 ah, yes you missed intros :) Nov 21 16:49:36 yup Nov 21 16:49:45 i'm rosie from aotearoa/new zealand imc Nov 21 16:50:03 perth imc, oceania imc, global imc.. in perth.au and in philippines in dec and hopefully working in thailand with burma crew next year Nov 21 16:50:07 (south pacific) Nov 21 16:50:08 we're hein min, david, khin maung thet, aung marm oo, bone kyaw, dave from imc burma Nov 21 16:50:23 * wowi waves Nov 21 16:50:28 so many of ya :) Nov 21 16:50:30 * halo waves too Nov 21 16:50:33 yerry, jakarta Nov 21 16:50:37 * pabs and shayne are also from perth Nov 21 16:51:06 * ferret is a guest from sydney Nov 21 16:51:12 hi all! thanks for responding to my request. im sori too. anyway.. Nov 21 16:51:23 no no dont be :) Nov 21 16:52:03 so.. oceania is in the process of organising an appeal in scoop magazine for laptops and cameras for asia-pacific imcs Nov 21 16:52:27 what do you guys all need apart from that stuff? Nov 21 16:52:55 now funding is the most important for us for an office space and internet link Nov 21 16:53:13 and for pga trave Nov 21 16:53:18 video cam? Nov 21 16:53:20 aubrey: I'm originally from New Zealand, now in Australia. I mostly do tech stuff Nov 21 16:53:52 apart from $$ Nov 21 16:53:58 as we are limited ourselve Nov 21 16:54:05 perth doesn't even have a digi cam.. Nov 21 16:54:19 but we can borrow so we're ok Nov 21 16:54:32 wow, thanks ngaur. now i know whom to look for for tech probs =) Nov 21 16:54:40 heheh Nov 21 16:54:52 pictures are good, but the main thing is writing Nov 21 16:55:02 jakarta, need a space since we want to make special Nov 21 16:55:17 report about art festiva Nov 21 16:55:17 and having a solid collective :) Nov 21 16:55:18 aubrey: up to a point. I've got a fair bit going already Nov 21 16:55:19 i'd like to see the funding be done collaboratively with imc-finance.. oceania cant doit on our own.. and we should hit up american and europea n imcs ;) Nov 21 16:55:29 but there's a few techies around here. #oceania is agood placeto look Nov 21 16:55:37 :) Nov 21 16:55:44 * wowi pokes pabs and shayne Nov 21 16:56:00 and finn when he's around Nov 21 16:56:08 yeah thanks a lot for all your tech help people Nov 21 16:56:17 he'll be around in a month or so i think Nov 21 16:56:18 usefull aren't they :) Nov 21 16:56:28 :) lots more tech people in #tech btw Nov 21 16:56:33 heheh Nov 21 16:56:33 burma_crew: we should have a bit of a talk about language/font stuff Nov 21 16:56:38 yeh! Nov 21 16:56:46 yeah that would be great Nov 21 16:57:08 brb: phone Nov 21 16:57:58 pabs: we dont know the pple in #tech.... Nov 21 16:58:11 what's brb phone? Nov 21 16:58:22 brb = be right back Nov 21 16:58:30 ha ha Nov 21 16:58:31 on telephone Nov 21 16:58:48 what's btw? Nov 21 16:58:54 by the way Nov 21 16:58:54 by the way Nov 21 16:59:01 thanks Nov 21 16:59:02 or between Nov 21 16:59:11 in some cases.. Nov 21 16:59:36 (just to be confusing..) Nov 21 17:00:07 when's the interview for scoop? Nov 21 17:00:37 I left it with wowi for a bit. not sure if whe's talked with other scoop people yet Nov 21 17:00:46 *she's Nov 21 17:01:13 Basically scoop has agreed to the idea of running a page on scoop about it linking to more info on an indymedia site Nov 21 17:01:23 and we'd run ads linking to the page on our site Nov 21 17:01:39 wowi knows someone with some graphic design skills Nov 21 17:01:39 it's great if we can do Nov 21 17:01:47 how many cams and laptops in target to get from that nag? Nov 21 17:01:55 i mean mag.. Nov 21 17:02:04 there's a bit of work to do on working out the text, partly involving talking to scoop editorial people Nov 21 17:02:07 which I'm not Nov 21 17:02:24 aubrey: no idea really, but the idea has appeal. Nov 21 17:03:03 I've heard of an appeal along these lines in the UK which was hugely successful, but it's very hard to predict Nov 21 17:03:29 There's more than just scoop that can run ads. Nov 21 17:03:39 It's worth thinking who else might be asked to be involved Nov 21 17:03:58 very likely there's a few activists around who run radio shows and the like Nov 21 17:04:16 plus the web of course Nov 21 17:04:34 scoop's a purely web based thing. mag isn't really the right description Nov 21 17:04:43 http://www.scoop.co.nz/ Nov 21 17:05:01 it gets an audience over 100,000 pages served per day Nov 21 17:05:35 great Nov 21 17:06:25 Will probably get mostly older equipment from people who have upgraded and don't need their old stuff Nov 21 17:07:05 burma: what sort of technical skills do you guys have? Nov 21 17:07:19 that would be a great idea Nov 21 17:07:28 i think they aren't that old and backward..i hope =) Nov 21 17:07:38 if we get old ones Nov 21 17:07:47 some will be, hopefully not all Nov 21 17:08:32 My own laptop is a pentium 166. given the right choices of software, it's quite up to publishing Nov 21 17:09:05 whew! at least you have one =) Nov 21 17:09:30 We dn't have any skill, now we are learning, please help us to have skill to run for our process. Nov 21 17:10:05 burma: you'll need to learn a bit about updating software and stuff like that. Nov 21 17:10:24 anyone who runs a computer nees to learn a bit of that sort of thing Nov 21 17:10:44 there will be plenty of help available of course Nov 21 17:10:46 that's easy Nov 21 17:10:55 good Nov 21 17:11:01 we know basic stuff but we need to learn more about web design Nov 21 17:11:07 sure Nov 21 17:11:08 back Nov 21 17:11:18 hi wowi Nov 21 17:11:20 * wowi knows a graphic designer :) Nov 21 17:11:23 our page is going very slowly because we can't get access to the server Nov 21 17:11:25 in portland Nov 21 17:11:29 we talked a little about the scoop thing Nov 21 17:11:40 wowi: did you talk to alastair @ scoop? Nov 21 17:11:47 ngaur: i was in the forest and planned to email today Nov 21 17:11:49 nope.. Nov 21 17:11:51 ok Nov 21 17:11:56 getting stuff done bit by bit. Nov 21 17:12:03 --- halo is now known as halo-food Nov 21 17:12:04 usually the way Nov 21 17:12:16 will talk to chris about the design tomorrow Nov 21 17:12:19 going to get some food cos it's getting late here :) Nov 21 17:12:24 mmm Nov 21 17:12:30 eat sumin for me Nov 21 17:12:35 oaky :) Nov 21 17:13:05 thanks everyone, this meeting's got me kinda excited about stuff :) Nov 21 17:13:11 seeya later Nov 21 17:13:28 we should load up a bit of documentation on any computers we send so people don't have to go online for all the web desing info they need Nov 21 17:13:41 *design Nov 21 17:13:47 indeed, and software Nov 21 17:14:04 yes Nov 21 17:14:08 we can do that Nov 21 17:14:09 burma: how affordable is web access there? Nov 21 17:14:13 the laptop is in perth Nov 21 17:14:29 atm we use the web in other organisations Nov 21 17:14:38 but its often difficult to get access Nov 21 17:15:29 given a laptop you'll be able to write stuff in advance ready to publish Nov 21 17:15:34 for a-net we can get one month unlimited for 12 aud Nov 21 17:15:46 but we need a phone line Nov 21 17:16:00 which is about 50 aud per month Nov 21 17:16:51 more expensive than here for phone line Nov 21 17:17:01 sori, still have to do something..alex is still conncected anyway. till the next meeting =) Nov 21 17:17:17 bye aubrey Nov 21 17:17:23 cya aubrey Nov 21 17:17:29 do you also pay per call or per minute? Nov 21 17:17:48 ngaur: is that for me? Nov 21 17:17:50 yeah a few cents Nov 21 17:18:03 oh, sori. bye! Nov 21 17:18:09 aubrey: I meant burma Nov 21 17:18:43 cya aubrey :) Nov 21 17:18:44 <-- aubrey has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) Nov 21 17:19:56 burma: how far did you drive today to get access? Nov 21 17:19:59 sorry - its 10aud for phone rental Nov 21 17:20:14 and 100us to set up the phone line Nov 21 17:20:14 sounds a bit easier Nov 21 17:20:51 if you got help setting it up, could you cover the running costs? Nov 21 17:21:14 but we need a workspace first Nov 21 17:21:45 we're talking about putting in funding proposal Nov 21 17:21:49 for a working space Nov 21 17:21:54 maybe from osi Nov 21 17:22:03 or any other if you have ideas Nov 21 17:22:25 osi? Nov 21 17:22:48 open society institute Nov 21 17:23:06 they have an office in thailand to fund burma community organisations Nov 21 17:23:09 and have a media fund Nov 21 17:23:20 yeah. I do have some pointers on that one. Nov 21 17:23:50 Cos sorros fucked around alot of sth american countries bacjk in the day, alot of indy crew are pretty hostile on soros Nov 21 17:24:08 and point out sorros bux are probably against POU Nov 21 17:24:14 what happened? Nov 21 17:24:15 *however* Nov 21 17:24:33 what's POU? Nov 21 17:24:38 ?? Nov 21 17:24:46 principals of unity Nov 21 17:25:04 you canOBABLY JUST APPLY ANYWAY AND (keyboard going wacky) do it under some other body name Nov 21 17:25:13 like a 'burma tacticval media fund' or something. Nov 21 17:25:19 shayne: why against POU? Nov 21 17:25:25 (sorry about my crazy keyboard. ) Nov 21 17:25:30 or arabian horse lovers society for a democratic media in burma Nov 21 17:25:46 http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Local/PrinciplesOfUnity Nov 21 17:25:55 erm. I believe theres something about not accepting grants for govt or corporate bodys Nov 21 17:26:03 burma_crew1: heheh Nov 21 17:26:04 HOWEVER, I might just be tripping and its not in POU at all. Nov 21 17:26:16 it is i'm sure. Nov 21 17:26:19 http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Local/PrinciplesOfUnity Nov 21 17:26:21 check Nov 21 17:26:39 Is OSI corporate funded? Nov 21 17:26:44 * wowi is busy fielding the exciting BIMC debate that has started on imc-communication Nov 21 17:26:44 George Sorros however did crash a fe sth american finances before he 'turned good'. so yeah. theres hostility from some camps in indy o n the issue. Nov 21 17:26:53 gotta love the paranoia Nov 21 17:26:55 its funded by george sorros I believe. Nov 21 17:27:02 yes Nov 21 17:27:33 ./me thinks free bux is free bux personally. Nov 21 17:28:06 * ngaur wonders if he's a corporate influence himself Nov 21 17:28:33 osi could be against open publishing Nov 21 17:28:36 we heard Nov 21 17:28:57 my radio funded by soros/osi Nov 21 17:29:00 The deal with soros , is after his speculative investment in russia went bunk he turned on that sort of stuff Nov 21 17:29:30 theory is, he wants to 'fix' capitalism to make it more stable (ie by making 3rd world less turbulent), so investment there is less ris ky Nov 21 17:29:33 thats the theory. Nov 21 17:29:44 but I dont doubt he has some sort of benevolent reasons too. Nov 21 17:30:00 soros has done alot of funding to free burma groups Nov 21 17:30:01 turbulence is why it's profitable for capitalism Nov 21 17:30:11 particularly media groups Nov 21 17:30:13 some people in se asia blame him for the economic crash in 1997 Nov 21 17:30:16 ie.. burma net Nov 21 17:30:47 he funds a lot of stuff here Nov 21 17:31:02 in indoensia too Nov 21 17:31:19 <-- ferret has quit (Quit: Cya all, have fun! Ferret dives down his burrow.) Nov 21 17:31:30 what about other funding organisations? Nov 21 17:31:40 --> ferret (irc@localhost) has joined #oceania Nov 21 17:31:40 --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to ferret Nov 21 17:31:47 oops Nov 21 17:32:54 we think we can get money from soros Nov 21 17:34:18 is money and soros a family..:) Nov 21 17:34:19 I think its a case of balancing ideology with practicality. Nov 21 17:34:49 I suspect burma indy might be a project osi would find exciting however. Nov 21 17:34:56 here the info http://burmaproject.org/ Nov 21 17:35:14 I'd suppose you'd just need to lay down the law to OSI and say "No interference please!" Nov 21 17:35:24 all money is blood money at some level. Nov 21 17:35:30 of course Nov 21 17:35:43 agree, with shayne Nov 21 17:35:56 * shayne does wish chumbawumba where still throwing dollars about. Nov 21 17:36:10 got to set the limit Nov 21 17:37:06 osi don't fund office costs though Nov 21 17:37:10 or individual travel Nov 21 17:37:27 so we need to make up lots of expenses Nov 21 17:37:39 like web development Nov 21 17:37:45 perhaps Nov 21 17:38:02 found this in a search: http://www.burmacampaign.org.uk/ Nov 21 17:38:08 might be worth talking to them Nov 21 17:38:32 http://www.burmawatch.org/ Nov 21 17:39:00 I don't know enough about the politics of burma to spot which organisations are dodgy Nov 21 17:39:20 * wowi is not feeling well so will be quiet.. great chatting tho! Nov 21 17:39:36 good bye wowi! Nov 21 17:40:38 sorry you don't feel well Nov 21 17:40:44 :) thanks Nov 21 17:40:55 bye wowi, and thanks Nov 21 17:40:55 i'll be lurking.. Nov 21 17:41:00 maybe ask these guys for a camera: http://www.burmaphoto.org/BPover.htm Nov 21 17:41:05 * wowi waves Nov 21 17:41:12 later wowi Nov 21 17:43:26 burma: maybe we should talk about language issues Nov 21 17:43:55 yes we are very interesting in those issues Nov 21 17:44:18 Sounds like support for the official language is much better than for the smaller languages Nov 21 17:44:55 but it seems burmese isn't supported either Nov 21 17:45:05 does supporting hte smaller languages mean a big difference in who can read the site? Nov 21 17:45:10 For India imc Unicode Renderening support is still under develoment Nov 21 17:45:21 burmese at least has unicode support, which makes it a lot easier Nov 21 17:45:25 for most platforms Nov 21 17:45:36 don't all the languages have unicode support? Nov 21 17:45:44 no Nov 21 17:45:57 ngaur: thing with unicode, is it seems that it doesn't get used, due to lack of software support Nov 21 17:46:14 thats the impression i got from dave anyway Nov 21 17:46:15 burmese is the most important language Nov 21 17:46:28 all you need to view it on the web is a unicode font which includes the characters you need Nov 21 17:46:54 hey everyone, have to go now. till next time! :) Nov 21 17:46:55 yeah, but typing it is the issue Nov 21 17:46:57 Windows comes with one big unicode font. Does it cover the burmese characters? Nov 21 17:46:59 cya alex Nov 21 17:47:02 we need to consider about other languages Nov 21 17:47:09 What do people actually use in burma? Nov 21 17:47:20 <-- alex (cgiirc@210.213.180.23) has left #oceania Nov 21 17:47:24 what do you mean? languages? Nov 21 17:47:44 burma: do people in burma mostly speak the burmese language as well as their own? Nov 21 17:47:59 the majority speak burmese Nov 21 17:48:11 but a lot of people also don't speak burmese Nov 21 17:48:16 hang on, got a converstaion going off web Nov 21 17:48:36 --> gdm_ (irc@localhost) has joined #oceania Nov 21 17:48:45 and there's the political issue - we can't include some languages and exclude others Nov 21 17:49:02 <-- burma_crew1 has quit (Quit: Leaving) Nov 21 17:49:12 oops Nov 21 17:49:27 --> s|afk_ (irc@localhost) has joined #oceania Nov 21 17:49:51 --> burma_crew1 (~jirc@210.203.189.206) has joined #oceania Nov 21 17:50:02 oops Nov 21 17:50:20 --- wowi gives channel operator status to burma_crew1 Nov 21 17:50:31 --- pabs gives channel operator status to gdm_ Nov 21 17:50:36 --- wowi gives channel operator status to s|afk_ Nov 21 17:50:51 we should find first burmese and english and the rest can be step by step Nov 21 17:51:11 if we can use burmese properly on imc, we wil be very happy Nov 21 17:51:38 as far as typing burmese, you have to use a special font to be able to type it, yeah? Nov 21 17:51:58 yeah, Nov 21 17:52:06 like wwin burmese Nov 21 17:52:25 do you think it will be possible to type in burmese into forms on the site? Nov 21 17:52:51 is there burmees Opentipe free fonts available? Nov 21 17:53:15 what is opentipe free fonts? Nov 21 17:53:28 well, yes, but unless you have unicode support, then you won't be able to mix with english without a special scheme Nov 21 17:53:43 opentype is just another font format Nov 21 17:54:06 better than truetype i think. is that right anivar_ ? Nov 21 17:54:23 --> shekhar (~shekhar@210-210-75-118.lan.sify.net) has joined #oceania Nov 21 17:54:24 yaa. it provides unicode redering automatically Nov 21 17:54:25 there are some burmese unicode fonts available iirc Nov 21 17:54:48 burmese has unicode support doesnt it? Nov 21 17:55:20 yes, but it is a matter of being able to type it - that is the hard part if your computers can't do that Nov 21 17:55:32 http://my.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Font Nov 21 17:55:34 I'm back Nov 21 17:55:40 it supports Nov 21 17:55:40 some kind of auto-translation may be needed Nov 21 17:56:01 --- wowi gives channel operator status to shekhar Nov 21 17:56:25 you need a keyboard definition to go with the font, and the font needs to be properly defined in terms of the codepage which maps character numbers to unicode Nov 21 17:56:51 its easy to type burmese with the fonts Nov 21 17:56:53 would it be easy to create such a mappin for their current typeing methog? Nov 21 17:56:57 some fonts can make it look OK, but the system basically doesn't know it's not ascii Nov 21 17:57:39 pabs: probably easy to make the file, but might be complicated for users to install Nov 21 17:58:11 yeah, perhaps a propper mapping file could be combined with something server side Nov 21 17:58:15 burma: when you type burmese on windows, do you have a language selection control somewhere in the bottom right of the screen? Nov 21 17:58:20 <-- s|afk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) Nov 21 17:58:27 no Nov 21 17:58:28 to convert wwin_burmese to unicode burmese Nov 21 17:58:38 * shayne bangs his head on the monitor. I *hate* trolls. Nov 21 17:58:46 burma: you just change font and that's it? Nov 21 17:58:52 yeah Nov 21 17:59:01 shayne: so do i, what are you referring to? Nov 21 17:59:05 ngaur: did you get that word document i sent you? Nov 21 17:59:11 ok. sounds like the situation was in maori. a bit half done Nov 21 17:59:29 pabs: yes, but I've been struggling to find time to get into this issue Nov 21 17:59:35 ok Nov 21 18:00:06 Does microsoft put out any sort of burmese language kit? Nov 21 18:00:10 we don't know any burmese sites that don't use gifs Nov 21 18:00:14 * wowi shudders Nov 21 18:00:21 oh. the dickhead complaining a story on general wire is something not from local area while some are moved to regional. Nov 21 18:00:22 no microsoft support Nov 21 18:00:46 perhaps an anti-burma conspiracy Nov 21 18:00:55 plus someone flipping out about the use of the 'rising star' image on eric cardwines story. Nov 21 18:00:56 gifs are not that hard to get to work for display Nov 21 18:00:56 ooooh: http://www.tavultesoft.com/keyman/downloads/keyboards/index.php?filter=language&equals=Burmese%2FMyanmar Nov 21 18:01:00 but hopeless for typing Nov 21 18:01:08 I actually rang eric and asked him to suggest a foto for the feature. Nov 21 18:01:16 and that was the authors choice. Nov 21 18:01:22 yeah gifs are easy to use Nov 21 18:01:42 but we need to have functioning forms in burmese for open publishihng Nov 21 18:02:21 Do you know sites which do it, and which most people can use? Nov 21 18:02:36 forms? Nov 21 18:02:44 yeah Nov 21 18:02:59 examples of how people are doing things already would be helpful Nov 21 18:03:07 no we've never seen Nov 21 18:04:25 I'm sure we can figure something out for you guys, but it might be ahrd to get it so that other people can come to the site and publish without installing stuff on their computers Nov 21 18:05:00 burma: is there anywhere you can do a search in burmese? that's about as simple as a form gets Nov 21 18:05:36 no Nov 21 18:05:40 <-- gdm has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) Nov 21 18:05:45 --> Takver_on_hols (Takver@wzpp-p-144-139-183-39.prem.tmns.net.au) has joined #oceania Nov 21 18:05:47 anything is a good start Nov 21 18:05:59 even if people have to install something Nov 21 18:06:07 --> ngau1 (irc@localhost) has joined #oceania Nov 21 18:06:16 most people have wwin_burmese Nov 21 18:06:27 sorry, what did I miss? Nov 21 18:06:38 (21:04:17) ngaur: burma: is there anywhere you can do a search in burmese? that's about as simple as a form gets Nov 21 18:06:45 no Nov 21 18:06:52 anything is a good start Nov 21 18:06:53 even if people have to install something Nov 21 18:07:09 <-- ngaur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) Nov 21 18:07:10 most people have wwin_burmese Nov 21 18:07:15 --- ngau1 is now known as ngaur Nov 21 18:07:15 <-- shekhar has quit (Ping timeout: 604 seconds) Nov 21 18:07:20 i think that wwin_burmese would have to be the starting point Nov 21 18:07:22 so if something can work with that??? Nov 21 18:07:30 --> guest (cgiirc@210.213.180.23) has joined #oceania Nov 21 18:07:32 OK, aim forthat first Nov 21 18:07:44 <-- guest has quit (Remote host closed the connection) Nov 21 18:07:48 yay ok cool yes Nov 21 18:07:54 maybe can make a form work with just stylesheet setting the form entry font Nov 21 18:08:07 won't work for some old browsers Nov 21 18:08:32 --> alex (cgiirc@210.213.180.23) has joined #oceania Nov 21 18:08:35 --- You have been marked as being away Nov 21 18:08:40 most people have new browsers thanks to piracy Nov 21 18:08:42 --- You are no longer marked as being away Nov 21 18:08:50 --- pabs gives channel operator status to alex ngaur Takver_on_hols Nov 21 18:09:10 who makes wwin_burmese? Nov 21 18:09:18 is it a comercial font or free? Nov 21 18:09:52 free - we don't know who makes it Nov 21 18:09:53 burma_crew1: firefox is great and free - no piracy necessary Nov 21 18:10:01 maybe KMD Company Nov 21 18:10:02 hmm, what about mixing wwin_burmese with english - like writing links and stuff Nov 21 18:10:31 hmm Nov 21 18:11:22 ngaur: take a look at the rtf file in the zip linked from that link i posted before Nov 21 18:11:26 http://www.nandawon.demon.co.uk/burmese-fonts/pcfontwf.htm Nov 21 18:11:40 it wouldn't be hard to make a unicode font from wwinburmese i tihnk Nov 21 18:12:55 what do you mean mixing eng and wwin burmese? Nov 21 18:13:01 heh. did a search for wwin_codepage and found only an imc-burma related page Nov 21 18:13:22 burma_crew1: like on the imc-burma listinfo page Nov 21 18:13:28 no. that should be easy enough, but you'd have to have the keyboard definition to be able to type with it Nov 21 18:13:52 burma if you want to enter something in a form like burmese stuff Nov 21 18:13:58 and you use a burmese font Nov 21 18:14:02 we want two seperate pages, one for english and one for burmese Nov 21 18:14:06 then the bits wouldn't look right Nov 21 18:14:07 not mixed together Nov 21 18:14:12 shayne: hmm, what about using that html editor, htmlarea and then having a "burmese" button in it Nov 21 18:14:48 pabs: I suspect it would become a major project very quickly Nov 21 18:14:53 yeah. I guess so. Nov 21 18:14:59 yeah Nov 21 18:15:00 * shayne not sure how it would be done. Nov 21 18:15:18 same way as they write it in word and stuff Nov 21 18:15:37 you can't easily change font in the middle of a