**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Jun 17 19:13:55 2007 Jun 17 19:15:47 Takver sorry can't attend meeting - I shall log & read later Jun 17 19:16:08 * uriohau (uriohau@che.indymedia.org) has joined #oceania Jun 17 19:16:32 smush hey uriohau! Jun 17 19:17:06 * kenny (kenny@che.indymedia.org) has joined #oceania Jun 17 19:19:43 smush Kameron, can u log this chat too? i dont know how that worls Jun 17 19:19:46 smush *works Jun 17 19:19:58 Kameron yeah i've got logging on Jun 17 19:20:11 smush sweet Jun 17 19:20:11 Kameron should be able to set it up in your IRC client preferences Jun 17 19:20:25 kenny hello from Wellington Jun 17 19:20:45 smush yay! i was wondering who kenny was ;) Jun 17 19:21:54 kenny where are you today smush? Jun 17 19:22:24 smush i'm in switzerland at the moment. a bit hung-over and not enough sleep in my life at the moment Jun 17 19:22:50 kenny ok Jun 17 19:23:13 smush should we wait another couple of mins and start with a round if intros to see who is keen to have a bit of chat? Jun 17 19:23:15 * uriohau has quit (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF)) Jun 17 19:23:41 kenny ok Jun 17 19:24:18 * uriohau (uriohau@che.indymedia.org) has joined #oceania Jun 17 19:25:53 uriohau kia ora Jun 17 19:26:04 kenny Danyl sent apologies in an email Jun 17 19:27:21 smush hey uriohau, is it all working allright for you? Jun 17 19:27:56 uriohau yeah it is, good support from Camp Soveirnty crew, going as hard as a mum can Jun 17 19:28:29 uriohau looking forward to ding thing in the Pi & maori communities in melbounre Jun 17 19:29:07 smush cool, should we start with a round of intros? maybe we can use ### to say that we've finished talking and it can be someone else's turn? who'll start? i nominate kenny ;= Jun 17 19:29:09 smush ) Jun 17 19:30:13 kenny Ok - Ken from Wellington Indymedia collective, on Aotearoa IMC editorial collective, AIM rep on IMC finance collective Jun 17 19:31:05 kenny ### Jun 17 19:31:40 anarchafairy um, how does a round work without a circle? Jun 17 19:32:23 anarchafairy smush do you want to facilitate? Jun 17 19:32:52 smush kia ora, smush, wellington indymedia, aotearoa imc editorial collective, imc switzerland (german part). i've been writing stuff mainly about indigenous resistance in aotearoa and looking into what happens in the pacific and went to tonga last year. ### Jun 17 19:33:11 * naught101 (naught101@localhost) has joined #oceania Jun 17 19:33:12 * ChanServ gives channel operator status to naught101 Jun 17 19:33:13 * naught101 has quit (Excess Flood) Jun 17 19:33:48 smush i can facilitate a bit, we'll see how we go i reckon, i dunno who excatly is participating. why don't all people who want to participate in the chat intro themselves now?## Jun 17 19:34:15 anarchafairy hiya, I'm Torrance from Wellington, member of AIMC, am (a lazy) editor, involved in some tech stuff such as getting a drupal dev site going, etc., blah ### Jun 17 19:34:42 uriohau kia ora, uriohau teni, Kulin nations grassroots anti Collnial, Anti Capitalist Jun 17 19:36:24 Kameron I am Cameron from Sydney Indymedia and Coffs Coast Indymedia (coffscoastimc.org). I do tech, editorial, outreach, whatevers needed ### Jun 17 19:36:29 * halo has quit (Quit: Leaving) Jun 17 19:37:21 * naught101 (naught101@localhost) has joined #oceania Jun 17 19:37:21 * ChanServ gives channel operator status to naught101 Jun 17 19:39:02 smush cool, anybody else? stacy, shayne, scott, psyops, naught101, gdm? Jun 17 19:39:48 smush we have apoligies from strypey (imc wellington), kimk (brisbane, cliamte imc), takver (imc melbourne)### Jun 17 19:40:55 * Nigel (Nigel@che.indymedia.org) has joined #oceania Jun 17 19:41:09 smush hey nigel, u here for the meeting? Jun 17 19:41:47 Nigel Yeah, thought I'd drop by! Jun 17 19:41:51 smush otherwise, we're small but lets get started! say it loud ! Jun 17 19:42:24 smush cool nigel, we just did a 'round' of intros. the people participating are anarchafairy, kenny, uriohau and kameron. Jun 17 19:42:43 smush ### (nigel, that means that you finished) Jun 17 19:43:16 Nigel Hi All - Nigel from MIM. Not a regular IRC user ### Jun 17 19:43:41 kenny Hi Nigel Jun 17 19:44:05 uriohau kis ora kenny### Jun 17 19:44:09 Nigel Hi Kenny. Jun 17 19:44:55 smush cool, maybe someone wants to kick us off with having a rant? can i introduce the @ - use it when u want to speak. cool? Jun 17 19:45:15 anarchafairy @ Jun 17 19:45:21 smush go anarchafairy ;) Jun 17 19:45:27 anarchafairy it's a pity takver isn't here since he was quite keen on the oceania proposal Jun 17 19:45:29 anarchafairy ### Jun 17 19:45:43 anarchafairy @ or she ?? or it... ### Jun 17 19:46:06 smush yeah, he's got a kid to look after but was very keen for the discussion ### Jun 17 19:46:50 uriohau sad to see the end of publishing in mebourne### Jun 17 19:47:07 Nigel He's logging it to read later### Jun 17 19:47:31 kenny @ Jun 17 19:47:36 smush go kenny! Jun 17 19:47:55 kenny Do you want to hear Danyl's proposal? He sent it by email.## Jun 17 19:48:12 smush i reckon that be cool. can u summarise it kenny?### Jun 17 19:48:33 kenny Can I cut and paste the relevant paragraph?## Jun 17 19:48:36 anarchafairy So the proposal we were throwing around was to have a single Jun 17 19:48:36 anarchafairy IndyDrupal 'back-end' engine dunning on one server (eg Axxs), which is Jun 17 19:48:36 anarchafairy capable of driving multiple 'front-end' sites, one for each country or Jun 17 19:48:36 anarchafairy city capable of maintaining an editorial collective. Each front-end Jun 17 19:48:36 anarchafairy site could have its own appearance and conguration. So Aotearoa IMC Jun 17 19:48:37 anarchafairy would retain its own separate site with our choice of modules and Jun 17 19:48:38 anarchafairy options and our tech volunteers would work as part of an Oceania tech Jun 17 19:48:40 anarchafairy collective helping to maintain the engine on the server and looking Jun 17 19:48:42 anarchafairy after the guts of our front-end. Hope that makes sense. Jun 17 19:48:46 anarchafairy (that was the main paragraph??) Jun 17 19:48:54 kenny yup Jun 17 19:48:56 smush thanks anarchafairy Jun 17 19:49:14 shayne whats the scope of this proposal in terms of superceding citys Jun 17 19:49:33 anarchafairy wat do u mean? Jun 17 19:49:49 shayne the reason I say is, Im nervous about readers (and perhaps collectives) in non australian citys feeling a little de-autonomised Jun 17 19:50:13 shayne or is this just australian citys and maybe nz ones? Jun 17 19:51:04 Kameron i guess the answer to that proposal is 'yes', its possible. but technically it may be challenging Jun 17 19:51:11 anarchafairy @ Jun 17 19:51:17 shayne or to put it another way, would there be a perception in nz that this is an aussie takeover? Jun 17 19:51:20 smush anarchafairy? Jun 17 19:52:18 shayne maybe we just go down the mir route Jun 17 19:52:29 anarchafairy I guess the options are an aus-wide imc (and maybe a pacific imc) plus aimc remaining as is, or a unified oceania imc... which definitely poses problems for smaller places having muhc of voice. Jun 17 19:52:37 shayne like the old united kollectives thing Jun 17 19:52:47 Nigel mir route? Jun 17 19:53:02 shayne Its also a question of where do Manila and QC fit into this Jun 17 19:53:07 shayne They are definately part of the family Jun 17 19:53:09 anarchafairy as for danyl's proposal, i think that would be quite difficult to do, but I would lvoe to see a nice drupal imc base that could easily be applied and maintained from one central place Jun 17 19:53:11 anarchafairy ### Jun 17 19:53:33 Kameron @ Jun 17 19:53:36 smush kameron? Jun 17 19:53:42 * shayne personally really doesnt like drupal much. its a bit kludgy for me Jun 17 19:53:55 shayne boxy Jun 17 19:54:23 Kameron my motivations behind this are so that smaller places that would never have their own imc would now have an indy with a name that is inclusive of them Jun 17 19:54:59 Kameron and so bigger places as well, of course, like melb/bris etc Jun 17 19:55:44 uriohau @ Jun 17 19:55:47 Kameron im not sure having a unified site that is really just seperate sites sharing a central base makes much sense, or maybe ive misunderstood it Jun 17 19:56:09 Kameron 33 Jun 17 19:56:12 Kameron ## Jun 17 19:56:19 smush ;) uriohau? Jun 17 19:56:21 uriohau Wahts the minimum people and time commitement to keep an IMC going? Jun 17 19:57:06 smush who wants to respond to uriohau? Jun 17 19:57:11 shayne @ Jun 17 19:57:15 smush shayne? Jun 17 19:57:47 shayne In theory its possible with a single person, although its hardly a collective. 3 is the absolute minimum imho, and really you want 5 or more for sanity. Jun 17 19:58:10 shayne Perth gets by with 3 active on the site, and another 4-5 doing radio and print and shit, but its all pretty stressfull sometimes Jun 17 19:58:12 Nigel @ Jun 17 19:58:19 shayne ## Jun 17 19:58:46 smush uriohau u finished? Jun 17 19:59:03 uriohau ### Jun 17 19:59:11 smush sweet, nigel? Jun 17 19:59:33 Nigel Basically agree with Shayne's answer... Jun 17 20:00:14 Nigel ....though it depends on how busy the site is, as well as what extra activitiies the collective wish to perform. Jun 17 20:00:42 Nigel Kameron, are you suggesting a scalable type system? Jun 17 20:00:50 Nigel ### Jun 17 20:01:01 Kameron im not suggesting anything really Jun 17 20:01:08 smush @ Jun 17 20:01:36 smush i might just say a couple of things about my interests in this conversation Jun 17 20:01:51 smush i'm interested in the possibilty of imc in the pacific, in the islands. Jun 17 20:02:30 smush from my personal experience there and conversations with people i'm not convinced that a website is the most suitable thing for people there Jun 17 20:02:43 smush as internet is often expensive and people dont have computers much Jun 17 20:03:22 smush also, i strongly believe that an imc in tonga, samoa the cooks or whereever needs to be driven by the local people or there whanau (family) living in aotearoa or australia Jun 17 20:04:14 smush this is why i started imc-pasifika-setup, which hasnt gone very far but with a bit of outreach that project might eventuate... ### Jun 17 20:04:28 uriohau @ Jun 17 20:04:36 smush go uriohau Jun 17 20:04:55 uriohau I think in terms of what our region as awhole is facing its crucial Jun 17 20:05:37 uriohau keep the balance beteen local autonomy & regional solidarity Jun 17 20:06:29 * greebo has joined #oceania Jun 17 20:06:30 * ChanServ gives channel operator status to greebo Jun 17 20:07:27 naught101 whoa. wierdness. what's going on? Jun 17 20:07:43 * Kameron has changed the topic to: MIM closed! | PROPOSAL: australia/oceania wide IMC ? Meeting: Now Jun 17 20:07:54 shayne Meeting dude. Jun 17 20:08:03 smush u finished uriohau? Jun 17 20:08:11 shayne @ Jun 17 20:08:34 uriohau for now### Jun 17 20:08:40 smush ;) shayne? Jun 17 20:08:59 shayne I think one of the catalysts of all this is emotional and physical burnout of eds and geeks. Jun 17 20:09:27 shayne I know the melb kids are pretty burnt out, to the point they've had to pull curtains on MIMC, at least for the forseeable future Jun 17 20:09:35 shayne Sydney seems perpetually fatigued Jun 17 20:10:05 shayne Perths a bit too. I have alot less time than I used to with full time work and all, and al seems pretty frusturated and all hat Jun 17 20:10:53 shayne Add to that the a series of really sad attacks on us from so called left wing people, which have been quite heart breaking. Including a couple of years of violence threats and bullying from a certain north coaster I wont mention Jun 17 20:11:04 shayne and well, yeah. Somethings gotta change just for our sanitys sake. Jun 17 20:11:21 shayne Balancing a thriving IMC and alot of our needs to just take a break and be left alone. Its hard. Jun 17 20:11:39 shayne So Yeah. to me thats the crux of all this. Jun 17 20:11:49 shayne But at the same time theres verry real differences between imcs Jun 17 20:12:09 shayne Philosophically and how thats managed, is really anyones guess at this stage Jun 17 20:12:24 shayne Wheres the line between local autonomy and practical centralising Jun 17 20:12:29 shayne #### Jun 17 20:12:32 Nigel @ Jun 17 20:12:41 smush nigel? Jun 17 20:13:14 Nigel I think the burnout factor is widespread across the political activist spectrum.... Jun 17 20:13:42 Nigel ....certainly not limited to IMC. Jun 17 20:14:08 Nigel Regarding the difficulty of net access in the islands... Jun 17 20:14:54 Nigel ...what would be a good way for islanders to get their message out? An IMC "newsagency" of sorts maybe? Jun 17 20:15:03 Nigel ### Jun 17 20:15:04 smush @ Jun 17 20:15:13 Nigel yes smush? Jun 17 20:15:19 smush my response: Jun 17 20:15:25 smush i'm not sure... Jun 17 20:15:43 smush but, i think we in the west can get quite stuck in the website idea... Jun 17 20:15:52 smush ...because it works for us. Jun 17 20:16:10 smush but there is radical media groups in africa or chiapas who mainly do radio for example. Jun 17 20:16:28 smush with a LPFM radio transmiter u could pretty much all of tonga's capital. Jun 17 20:16:56 shayne @ I need to reboot. brb. ## Jun 17 20:17:00 smush i just think we need to keep the local conditions in mind (print publications are possible too of course= ### Jun 17 20:17:07 * aketus (aketus@localhost) has joined #oceania Jun 17 20:17:10 uriohau @ Jun 17 20:17:15 smush uriohau? Jun 17 20:17:20 aketus hi all Jun 17 20:17:21 * shayne has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) Jun 17 20:17:45 uriohau people on the ground know ehat their prorities are and what resources they need Jun 17 20:18:25 uriohau being urban I also wnat to concentrate on all the islanders in settler nations as well,oz, nz & us, Jun 17 20:18:54 uriohau completle press censorship is a reality in the Islands Jun 17 20:19:03 uriohau ### Jun 17 20:19:16 Nigel @ Jun 17 20:19:29 smush (btw, uriohau runs a great blog http://uriohau.blogspot.com) go nigel Jun 17 20:20:05 Nigel What I'm kinda thinking... Jun 17 20:20:54 Nigel ...is if resource access is an issue... Jun 17 20:21:29 Nigel ....a "newsagency" of sorts could be set up to provide a place... Jun 17 20:21:40 * shayne has joined #oceania Jun 17 20:21:40 * ChanServ gives channel operator status to shayne Jun 17 20:21:49 shayne @back## Jun 17 20:21:57 * gdm waves at everyone Jun 17 20:22:01 Nigel ....where people could bring their stories etc... Jun 17 20:22:48 Nigel ....to get to the outside world (whether web or audio etc) and could also distribute news coming in Jun 17 20:23:08 Nigel ### Jun 17 20:23:23 aketus @ Jun 17 20:23:31 smush aketus? Jun 17 20:24:43 aketus just wanted to introduce myself to those who don't know me - i'm Mig, one of the Axxs collective, in Melbourne, willing to help as a techie on an oz/oceania IMC and also willing to help check any submissions in French from french polynesia for validity if needed.. as discussed a night or so back. sorry, sure i've missed a lot :) Jun 17 20:25:27 aketus ### Jun 17 20:25:32 smush cool thanks aketus! Jun 17 20:25:36 Nigel @ Jun 17 20:25:53 smush go nigel Jun 17 20:26:39 Nigel Thanks aketus - we need all the techies we can get! I know MIM need a techie rather desperately.... Jun 17 20:27:23 Nigel ....if we could implement a login system, that alone would kill off most trolls and prevent burnout.### Jun 17 20:27:53 Kameron @ Jun 17 20:27:57 smush Kameron? Jun 17 20:28:13 Kameron i agree with shayne that this is driven by burnout Jun 17 20:29:02 Kameron but i think its a chance to have a website that is better than any of the ones we currently have. because there will (hopefully) by many of us contributing Jun 17 20:29:14 Kameron which means less trolls etc Jun 17 20:29:18 anarchafairy @ Jun 17 20:29:41 Kameron we've been talking previously about having a 'promoted' newswire on the front page Jun 17 20:29:53 Kameron and having anonymous comments go to an approval queue Jun 17 20:30:09 Kameron things like that so we can guarantee a better experience to the visitor of the site Jun 17 20:30:32 Kameron if we can rid our selves of cursed trollers and so on, we could reach more average people seeking alternative news Jun 17 20:30:56 Kameron so i dont think this will be a replacement to current sites Jun 17 20:31:16 Kameron indeed i think sydney indy will keep going, but maybe refocus on more local things Jun 17 20:31:58 Kameron technically, i can help lead a drupal site to be developed. Im open to other codebases, but will take a non-lead roll if so Jun 17 20:32:00 Kameron ### Jun 17 20:32:05 smush anarchafairy? Jun 17 20:33:00 anarchafairy It seesm to me that the problem is more the lack of tech people and tech time. Spam, tolls, etc. can all be virtually done away with a well designed site, and contributers can focus mainly on just that. Jun 17 20:33:55 anarchafairy I don't know whether a unified IMC is required to fix that issue, or if it would at all. I think Danyl was correct in his proposal that we need to pool resources in terms of tech stuff, but I don't think he was right in his precise proposal. Jun 17 20:34:27 anarchafairy AIMC has been lucky so far that we've had one tech person who has been able to deal with login stuff, etc, and this has kept the collective functioning. But we're not going anywhere with the drupal mifration. Jun 17 20:34:29 anarchafairy ### Jun 17 20:34:34 uriohau @ Jun 17 20:34:39 smush uriohau? Jun 17 20:35:21 uriohau Practical support of our local imc's are curical have to go whanau calls but am willing to dontate time and engery to support these kaupapa. Kia Kaha tatou Jun 17 20:35:32 uriohau #33 Jun 17 20:36:21 smush thanks uriohau, great to have u here!!! Jun 17 20:36:44 uriohau Ka Whawahi tonu matou ake ake ake!!!!! Jun 17 20:36:52 * uriohau (uriohau@che.indymedia.org) has left #oceania Jun 17 20:37:26 aketus @ Jun 17 20:37:30 smush aketus? Jun 17 20:38:41 aketus what's the latest, then? are there people more in favour of a unified IMC? or want to keep things as they are? if there are more techies, are people more inclined to keep things separate? or (as i'm thinking) if there's a concentration of IMCs as one unified site, there'll be a higher concentration of techies who can sustain it Jun 17 20:38:41 aketus ### Jun 17 20:39:15 smush @ Jun 17 20:39:25 smush i'm happy for tech people to make that call. Jun 17 20:39:25 Nigel smush! Jun 17 20:39:28 aketus shoot! :) Jun 17 20:39:48 smush i dunno anything about tech shit and if it wasnt for u people i would have never been able to use indy ;) Jun 17 20:40:19 naught101 @ Jun 17 20:40:32 smush if u think its best to work more together then let's do that if it means our project will be more sustainable ### Jun 17 20:40:37 smush naught101? Jun 17 20:40:40 anarchafairy @ Jun 17 20:41:07 naught101 how many IMCs are actively trying to recruit techs? ie. have a constant ad on the site for techs? ### Jun 17 20:41:27 smush (btw, if someone else wants to have the fantastic job of facilitator type "smush smells" and u get the job ;)) Jun 17 20:41:34 anarchafairy none AFAIK Jun 17 20:41:39 smush anarchafairy? Jun 17 20:42:26 anarchafairy I don't know if tech concentration is the issue. Tech work is quite individualistic by nature, and what seems more valuable is *time* of one or tow people who can work initmately together. Jun 17 20:42:42 anarchafairy ### Jun 17 20:42:52 smush other responses to aketus (or nigel)? Jun 17 20:43:51 Kameron @ Jun 17 20:43:52 * shayne would be fine with centralising tech but Id *really* rather not use something as klunky and crude as drupal Jun 17 20:43:58 smush kameron? Jun 17 20:44:08 shayne @## <-- insert those Jun 17 20:44:14 smush ;) Jun 17 20:44:39 Kameron i tech sydney / coffs coast / arafura. i dunno, in some ways i wish i could just run one site Jun 17 20:45:16 Kameron my keeness for 'centralisation' means i can focus more. not repeat things over several sites Jun 17 20:45:30 Kameron ## Jun 17 20:46:18 naught101 @ Jun 17 20:46:25 shayne @ Jun 17 20:46:27 smush naught101? Jun 17 20:47:07 naught101 Cat.org.au had a centralised drupal site setup, for many sites. it was a pain in the arse for us (risingtide)... but it was probably good for the CAT people Jun 17 20:47:15 naught101 ## Jun 17 20:47:22 smush shayne? Jun 17 20:48:14 shayne Perths software does a similar thing. one central install back end, and a few directorys for themes and setup info, and what version modules are used. It does make life alot easier, tho perths codes getting a bit rustic in its old age Jun 17 20:48:23 Kameron @ Jun 17 20:48:55 shayne Again, as I said, I'm really not keen on drupal, My observation is that drupal is horribly slow, and drupal sites have an awful tendancy of looking like drupal sites Jun 17 20:49:12 naught101 @ Jun 17 20:49:17 shayne If we had a more practical solution, it'd be easier to work with. Jun 17 20:49:23 shayne I just dont thing drupals that apropriate Jun 17 20:49:25 shayne ### Jun 17 20:49:25 anarchafairy (They aren't slow, but they do tend to be ugly.... that's designers fault, not druapl) Jun 17 20:49:32 shayne @ Jun 17 20:49:33 smush kameron? Jun 17 20:49:36 naught101 (agree with anarchafairy) Jun 17 20:49:36 shayne I disagree. Drupals a snail Jun 17 20:49:37 shayne # Jun 17 20:49:47 Kameron everything you have said about drupal is false shayne Jun 17 20:49:56 kenny sorry I gtg 2 bed - keep me posted on ne decisions smush & @fairy Jun 17 20:49:58 aketus @ Jun 17 20:50:08 anarchafairy Night night :) Jun 17 20:50:09 Kameron drupal runs some high end sites. and can be graphically designed how ever you please. it just takes work Jun 17 20:50:19 shayne @ I speak from alot of experience with alot of drupal sites btw ## Jun 17 20:50:33 kenny bye all :-) Jun 17 20:50:34 smush see ya kenny! Jun 17 20:50:40 naught101 @ Jun 17 20:50:43 shayne @ stick it thru cachegrind. you'll be gobsmacked # Jun 17 20:50:43 * kenny has quit (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF)) Jun 17 20:50:45 anarchafairy (ok, we'll put the code-fight to one side for now?) Jun 17 20:50:50 Kameron ok, whatever. The central install at cat.org.au was just sharing of the codebase files, nothing else Jun 17 20:50:53 Kameron which was a pain really Jun 17 20:50:59 Kameron 33 Jun 17 20:51:01 Kameron ## Jun 17 20:51:02 smush i'm with anarchafairy Jun 17 20:51:13 smush aketus now? Jun 17 20:51:17 naught101 ## Jun 17 20:52:36 aketus aside from code fight - just wanted to add as Kameron did that I'm willing to take a main role in working with a Drupal site. Mostly from experience with it rather than anything favourable. And willing to work on any other sort of codebase, just that it'd put me in a learner's seat to do so. ### Jun 17 20:53:11 Kameron @ Jun 17 20:53:17 smush k, so that was a pass from naught101 i think, who's next? Jun 17 20:53:19 smush kameron? Jun 17 20:53:47 anarchafairy (A NZ gov website based on drupal: http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/ : terrible site, but pretty and fast) Jun 17 20:53:53 Kameron we have to have a critical mass of techs who know the code we are using. I think its up to people to suggest something if they want to lead and a commitment to continue Jun 17 20:53:55 Kameron ## Jun 17 20:54:44 smush @ Jun 17 20:54:53 Nigel yes smush? Jun 17 20:54:56 smush ;) Jun 17 20:55:27 smush well, personally i'd rather make a conscious decision on the project rather the software... Jun 17 20:55:35 smush ...but i see how that's very much related. Jun 17 20:55:37 Kameron @ Jun 17 20:55:48 smush for me a united project needs to be carried by the collectives. Jun 17 20:56:08 smush i think that discussion needs to be there too and decisions made there Jun 17 20:56:18 smush but we need to know what resources and skills we have Jun 17 20:56:51 smush there has been resistance in the aotearoa ed collective to kameron's proposal - not because of tech issues but because they think they'll go under Jun 17 20:56:59 Nigel @ Jun 17 20:57:00 smush those issues need to be addressed too. Jun 17 20:57:05 smush ### Jun 17 20:57:07 smush kameron? Jun 17 20:57:26 Kameron yeah we need not get ahead of ourselves, tech stuff can come later.. Jun 17 20:57:34 Kameron Has there been any dissent at all yet? Jun 17 20:57:53 Kameron 33 Jun 17 20:57:57 Kameron fuck ## Jun 17 20:58:06 anarchafairy dissent to a unified imc? Jun 17 20:58:18 smush from omar, pretty much yes Jun 17 20:58:29 smush and ken - but they are keen for discussion Jun 17 20:58:34 smush nigel? Jun 17 20:59:05 Nigel Few things I'd like to throw out there for people to think about.... Jun 17 20:59:58 Nigel ..one of the key issues which I've noticed affecting nearly all activist groups, including IMC... Jun 17 21:00:45 Nigel ....is lack of organisation. This ultimately leads to more burnout than trolls etc... Jun 17 21:01:19 Nigel ....I think it would be good as part of whatever it is we end up deciding to do... Jun 17 21:02:04 Nigel ...to have a "Collective management page" which would list tasks which need to be performed... Jun 17 21:02:30 naught101 (IMC groupware server?) Jun 17 21:02:38 Nigel ...who's doing them, etc. And also... Jun 17 21:03:17 Nigel ...I've got an idea cooking in my head for an "activist smorgasboard"... Jun 17 21:03:42 smush (yummy!) Jun 17 21:04:32 Nigel ....which would be kinda like job ads, but for volunteers (IE: "Hi I'm so and so, I can do Drupal/circuit design/stencil design/etc etc)"...... Jun 17 21:04:59 Nigel ....as well as ads requesting people who have certain skills Jun 17 21:05:07 Nigel Feedback?### Jun 17 21:05:15 shayne @ Jun 17 21:05:19 smush shayne? Jun 17 21:05:33 shayne Perth IMC had that feature built into it for 2 years. No one ever used it. Jun 17 21:05:35 shayne # Jun 17 21:05:42 shayne @ Jun 17 21:05:49 smush shayne ;) Jun 17 21:05:49 shayne Its in manilas software. No one uses it there Jun 17 21:05:50 shayne # Jun 17 21:05:54 Nigel @ Jun 17 21:05:57 smush nigel? Jun 17 21:06:33 Nigel That doesn't mean WE can't use it. Promote it by using it.### Jun 17 21:06:51 shayne @ Jun 17 21:06:55 smush sayne Jun 17 21:07:14 shayne The ideas been around for a while. I do like the tasks stuff etc, BUT Jun 17 21:07:25 shayne The notice board stuff worked like this in perths software Jun 17 21:07:46 shayne A user could sign up, and list her actiist interests (or "causes") and skills. Jun 17 21:08:03 shayne Groups could also sign up and list there "causes", and what they where looking for Jun 17 21:08:19 shayne IT could then match folks to groups "dating service" style. Jun 17 21:08:45 shayne There was calendars, email list manager, todo lists , heaps of that stuf. Like yahoo groups but focused really tight on activist needs Jun 17 21:08:50 shayne but really, no one used it. Jun 17 21:08:57 shayne so we phased it out in activismo v2 Jun 17 21:09:39 shayne ## Jun 17 21:09:45 Nigel @ Jun 17 21:10:21 smush nigel? Jun 17 21:10:52 Nigel I wonder why that is? Seems like a good idea :) Jun 17 21:11:17 shayne I'd love to know. I was really proud of that software Jun 17 21:11:19 Nigel It could be that not enough people knew about it... Jun 17 21:11:25 smush @ Jun 17 21:11:54 Nigel ...that's one problem I've noticed with a lot of web-based... Jun 17 21:12:16 anarchafairy (i feel we're getting off topic?) Jun 17 21:12:23 shayne aye Jun 17 21:12:40 Nigel ....activism - no one knows about it! Yes - let's back on track### Jun 17 21:12:55 smush ### Jun 17 21:13:02 smush @ Jun 17 21:13:10 Nigel smush! Jun 17 21:13:12 smush another thing, Jun 17 21:13:14 anarchafairy @ Jun 17 21:13:52 smush if there are people keen to discuss pasifika imc more and do outreach please join the email list. i think these discussion can run parallel. ### Jun 17 21:13:54 smush fairy? Jun 17 21:14:14 anarchafairy i have to go to bed soon... Jun 17 21:14:18 anarchafairy For me the main motivation for a unified IMC would be to get good code sorted, and sites looking pretty. Having oceania collectives working together on this backend could help this (but I still think few techs with more time is vastly more productive than more techs each with little time). Jun 17 21:14:19 anarchafairy I think if we could get nice code but customised front-ends for different areas (ie. simply a pull down menu [or url] that places local features or a local newswire in the main places) we could avoid people get subsumed by Oz. Perhaps to start with we could share a single nicely designed stylesheet, and maybe later think about customising this... I dunno. Jun 17 21:14:19 anarchafairy AIMC has a dev drupal site (http://dev.indymedia.org.nz) sitting waiting for bug fixing and a bug free stylesheet. With some serious work this could probably be put into action soonish, but at the moment we're stuck because we don't have that time or the techs (I can't seem to make stylesheets that work in IE!). Jun 17 21:15:01 anarchafairy ### Jun 17 21:15:23 naught101 (dev.im.nz looks nice, btw!) Jun 17 21:15:27 * shayne a professional webcoder and I have nightmares about getting stuff working in ie Jun 17 21:15:59 shayne @ Jun 17 21:16:11 smush shayne? Jun 17 21:17:09 shayne Perhaps the idea is for the more geekishly inclined to form a more informal workgroup to look at the tech options and perhaps report back to another meeting in a couple of weeks or something Jun 17 21:17:25 shayne meanwhile we report back to our collectives on some of the issues socially we've talked about Jun 17 21:17:47 shayne and I might add we should consider a password sharing arangement where folks can troll swat on other folks indys Jun 17 21:18:21 shayne so if perth crew are all off getting shitfaced at a gig, and a melbs person sees , uh, (A troll) running riot, they can get in there and start swatting away, and vice versa. Jun 17 21:18:38 shayne ## Jun 17 21:18:42 Nigel @ Jun 17 21:18:50 smush nigel? Jun 17 21:19:40 Nigel I think anarchafairy's idea of "customised front-ends for different areas" is a good one.... Jun 17 21:20:17 Nigel ....also the password sharing arrangement idea is good to. ### Jun 17 21:20:27 shayne @ Jun 17 21:20:28 smush @ Jun 17 21:20:31 smush shayne? Jun 17 21:20:59 Kameron @ Jun 17 21:21:31 shayne If we did it, we'd have to make sure every understands the different community values of each site. If perth eds went in with the hard core chaos-grid aproach to troll smashing, it could really piss off the more free-speech-libertopia types on sydneys site Jun 17 21:21:31 shayne and so on Jun 17 21:21:31 shayne ## Jun 17 21:21:55 smush my turn. i like shayne's idea of a few techies talking further and all of us going back to our groups and also continuing the discussion on the oceania list. ### Jun 17 21:22:04 smush now kameron Jun 17 21:22:26 Kameron shayne, sydney isnt really free=speechl-libertopia ...not anymore Jun 17 21:22:42 Kameron can geeks join the oceania-tech list for tech discussion http://lists.indymedia.org.au/mailman/listinfo/oceania-tech Jun 17 21:22:44 Kameron ## Jun 17 21:22:59 * aketus will do Jun 17 21:23:05 * naught101 too Jun 17 21:23:18 anarchafairy done Jun 17 21:23:41 * smush will keep an eye on the archives but wont join coz he's not a techie. yay! ;) Jun 17 21:23:49 aketus lucky :) Jun 17 21:24:13 smush should we leave it there? or do people wanna keep goig? Jun 17 21:24:22 Nigel @ Jun 17 21:24:24 anarchafairy @ Jun 17 21:24:26 smush nigel? Jun 17 21:24:39 shayne http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/236/2220/1600/chaosgrid.jpg Jun 17 21:24:42 Nigel I have to get going soon... Jun 17 21:24:49 shayne well. action action Jun 17 21:25:05 Nigel ....my first real IRC session. It's been fun! :) Jun 17 21:25:09 Nigel ### Jun 17 21:25:12 smush fairy? Jun 17 21:25:56 anarchafairy Could we nominate someone to sum up the discussion here and report back on the various proposals made (cos no one is going to read the IRC log)... and it'd also make a good starting point to furthe rnut this out =n the oceania tech list Jun 17 21:25:58 anarchafairy ### Jun 17 21:26:08 anarchafairy @ not me... i'm fucked with school ### Jun 17 21:26:37 smush good idea fairy - volunteers? Jun 17 21:26:44 aketus @i missed a good 50 minutes of it, so i'm outing myself :)### Jun 17 21:27:05 shayne yeah. I missed a big chunk it seems and also no logs or time :( Jun 17 21:27:17 smush that leaves kameron or me, right? ;) Jun 17 21:27:40 aketus :) ive got logs if anyone needs Jun 17 21:27:40 Kameron im not summarising, read the damn log! Jun 17 21:27:46 smush hehe Jun 17 21:27:48 aketus haha Jun 17 21:27:51 aketus RTFL Jun 17 21:27:55 smush ok, i'll try and do a summary Jun 17 21:28:07 anarchafairy ..after u get sum sleep Jun 17 21:28:09 anarchafairy ;) Jun 17 21:28:13 smush can someone email me the log and i'll send it all out to the oceania list Jun 17 21:28:15 anarchafairy thanks smush Jun 17 21:28:22 aketus top job on hosting the meeting smush Jun 17 21:28:24 smush yeah, sleep would be nice ;) Jun 17 21:28:34 anarchafairy it's only takver with the log, right? Jun 17 21:28:41 aketus i got log Jun 17 21:28:47 anarchafairy oh, sweet Jun 17 21:28:57 smush email me aketus: smushcapitalism(at)xxxxx Jun 17 21:29:09 aketus cool. would you like it from September of last year? :D Jun 17 21:29:15 aketus kidding, i'll trim it :) Jun 17 21:29:18 smush one more thing: who is gonna call the next meeting? Jun 17 21:29:31 anarchafairy sort it out on list? Jun 17 21:29:41 smush sure Jun 17 21:29:44 Kameron aketus didnt you come in half way throug Jun 17 21:29:52 Nigel I think we'll need to call a meeting to discuss that one smush! :) Jun 17 21:29:52 aketus oh - good point Jun 17 21:29:57 anarchafairy ! Jun 17 21:30:23 anarchafairy anyone know Takver's email addy? Jun 17 21:30:37 Nigel xxxx(at)takver.com Jun 17 21:30:42 anarchafairy sweet Jun 17 21:30:52 anarchafairy i'll ask him to send to smush Jun 17 21:31:00 smush cool, thanks fairy Jun 17 21:31:13 smush give me 24 hours for the summary, thanks Jun 17 21:32:10 smush k, call it closed. maybe next time we can use some more signs, like something for support/dissent. Jun 17 21:32:22 smush it think they make online meetings a little faster Jun 17 21:32:24 anarchafairy everybody ;oves signs Jun 17 21:33:03 aketus maybe a 'l0l' or a 'w00t' or 'kthxbai' - it IS IRC after all Jun 17 21:33:06 aketus :) Jun 17 21:33:20 smush to geeky for me Jun 17 21:33:25 * aketus laughs Jun 17 21:33:56 anarchafairy wt? Jun 17 21:34:00 anarchafairy anyway Jun 17 21:34:04 anarchafairy night night! Jun 17 21:34:25 aketus night! Jun 17 21:34:27 smush sleep well! Jun 17 21:34:28 Nigel Sleep tight! Jun 17 21:35:19 * anarchafairy has left #oceania (Leaving) Jun 17 21:35:25 Nigel Gotta go myself. See y'all next time! Jun 17 21:35:35 aketus bye Jun 17 21:35:49 smush catch up nigel Jun 17 21:35:59 smush which city u from again? Jun 17 21:36:10 Nigel Melbourne Jun 17 21:36:35 smush true, sweet Jun 17 21:37:39 * Nigel has quit (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF)) Jun 17 21:39:17 * shayne has left #oceania Jun 17 21:49:20 * gdm is now known as epsas2 Jun 17 21:49:42 * epsas2 is now known as gdm Jun 17 22:00:45 * greebo has quit (Ping timeout: 610 seconds) **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Jun 17 22:05:24 2007