--- Log opened Thu Nov 25 20:20:58 2004
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20:21 < gdm> ahh, hello :-)
20:21 < Len> hi gdm
20:21 <@stacy-mtg> hey
20:21 <@stacy-mtg> phillc was here for a moment
20:21 < gdm> meeting started yet?
20:21 <@stacy-mtg> i'll repaste the minz
20:21 <@stacy-mtg> yep
20:21 <@stacy-mtg> Agenda:
20:22 <@stacy-mtg> IMC-process liaison - no volunteers, anybody on irc?
20:22 <@stacy-mtg> Nov 30 nite
20:22 <@stacy-mtg> Food not Bombs will be catering.  Bec is running the bar.  We get the door money. Andy has cd's to sell.  Might have t-shirts or hoodies also.
20:22 <@stacy-mtg> Event will be announced on 2SER on Friday.
20:22 -!- cobra [~cobra] has joined #sydney
20:22 <@stacy-mtg> Postering on Friday nite.  Meeting at Breakout: 65 Bellevue St. Glebe at 6pm for beerz then going to Sydney Uni and chippendale to do postering. 
20:22 <@stacy-mtg> Brisbane IMC proposal - Melb proposes disaffiliation
20:23 <@stacy-mtg> I (Stacy) will draft a proposal for imc-sydney explaining why I support the proposal and send it to the list for discussion.
20:23 <@stacy-mtg> Andy is updating the dns system for the brisbane indymedia domain name.
20:23 <@stacy-mtg> New software
20:23 <@stacy-mtg> PhillC is interested in helping start the drupal test site
20:23 <@stacy-mtg> conflict resolution
20:23 <@stacy-mtg> Len thinks it would be good to include a clause in the indy constitution obliging people to attend free mediation from community law centres if it's called for.
20:23 <@stacy-mtg> end
20:24 <@stacy-mtg> hi cobra
20:24 <@stacy-mtg> do you want to introduce yourself?
20:24 < cobra> hi just spectating
20:24 < gdm> hello cobra
20:24 < cobra> hiyoo
20:24 <@stacy-mtg> that's ok.  how did you hear about this?
20:25 < gdm> cobra has been to cat meetings before
20:25 < gdm> i know cobra
20:25 < gdm> ;-)
20:25 < cobra> saw it on some site.  soing a few other things so i can't chit-chat too much :((
20:25 < s> thx stacy-mtg 
20:25 < cobra> **doing
20:26 <@stacy-mtg> ok.  any comments on those agenda items?
20:26 < s> constitution as in Indy Principles of Unity? or sydney indy constitution? or ???
20:27 < Len> whatever - the priciples of unity are what I meant - couldn't remember the name
20:28 < Len> the community mediation thing is likely to vary from state to state - so I don't know if it would be appropriate for Aust wide
20:28 < Len> in NSW it's free - from community law centres
20:28 < gdm> yeah, but not most of the rest of the world
20:29 <@stacy-mtg> ok, so we could say, 'only if its freely available'
20:29 < Len> mainly this is just a proposal for Sydney to adopt
20:29 < s> to me it seems like something sydney has agency over itself, could suggest as common ground to oceania or process..
20:30 < s> Len: sounds good.
20:30 <@stacy-mtg> Len: do you want to draft a proposal to send to oceania and process?
20:31 < s> shall we dive into an item on the agenda ??
20:31 < s> meeting was to start at 8? (/me apologies for arriving late... technical difficulties w/dial up :|
20:32 < gdm> yeah: shane's fault!
20:32 < Len> if you like - though as I said just now this proposal is for Sydney - it'd be great to propose this to Oceania but I'm not aware of what's available in free mediation in other states
20:33 < Len> but happy to draft something - I've got a model clause for legally binding mediation - but not for the informal variety
20:33 <@stacy-mtg> ok.  i'll put that in the minutes
20:34 <@stacy-mtg> anybody want to raise anything else about the agenda items?
20:35 <@stacy-mtg> any other agenda items?
20:36 < Len> wanna talk about brissy yet?
20:36 < gdm> nope
20:36 <@stacy-mtg> can s or gdm talk to philc about drupal test site?
20:36 <@stacy-mtg> :)
20:36 < gdm> is andy coming back?
20:36 < gdm> cos it might be worth waiting for the codebase discussion
20:37 < s> i suggest we talk about process liason
20:37 <@stacy-mtg> yup, when he gets home
20:37 < gdm> i agree with s
20:37 <@stacy-mtg> you wanna do it, s?
20:37 < gdm> i was gonna suggest you, stacy
20:37 < gdm> you're on process arent' you?>
20:37 <@stacy-mtg> grrr
20:37 <@stacy-mtg> yes
20:37 < gdm> or, len, are u interested?
20:38 < Len> I'll do it if nobody else wants to
20:38 <@stacy-mtg> i think i'm too biased
20:38 < s> i'm happy to do it but only till mid jan... cause then i'm busy
20:38 < s> liason is simply conveying will of the local...
20:39 < s> and sharing info from others no?
20:39 <@stacy-mtg> yes
20:39 < Len> it may be good that I hardly know anything about what's happened re brisbane
20:39 < s> as in other locals liasons from the list
20:39 <@stacy-mtg> ok. cool
20:40 <@stacy-mtg> gdm: where can he subscribe?
20:40 < s> actually i think informed perspectives would be more valuable (not that i'm championing myself - i personally have a _heavy_ bias, as anyone who has read and recieved all that has gone on would...
20:40 <@stacy-mtg> i can never remember where the lists are
20:40 < gdm> lists.indymedia.org/mailman/listinfo/imc-process i think
20:40 <@stacy-mtg> go for it Len!
20:41 < Len> no sweat [s] - go for it
20:41 < Len> ahh
20:41 < s> hehe
20:41 <@stacy-mtg> can i put it in the minutes, Len?
20:42 < s> i think we should open nominations, candidates, debates, and then a secret ballot! - just kidding!
20:42 < Len> yeah, just include the log
20:42 <@stacy-mtg> is anybody logging?
20:42 < s> i've got plenty of work to do.
20:43 < s> :)
20:43 < s> gdm is logging.
20:43 <@stacy-mtg> ok
20:43 < gdm> i'm also taking minutes
20:43 < gdm> i don't like logs
20:43 <@stacy-mtg> you gunna do the wiki wiki thing?
20:43 <@stacy-mtg> gdm?
20:44 < Len> just popping outside for a sec - AFK
20:45 <@stacy-mtg> hmmm... that wasn't very clear
20:45 <@stacy-mtg> anyway...
20:45 <@stacy-mtg> anybody got anything else they want to talk about?
20:45 -!- ferret [irc@localhost] has joined #sydney
20:46 < ferret> Hi All
20:46 < gdm> killed another mossie!
20:46 < gdm> fuckers
20:46 <@stacy-mtg> folks mite enjoy this: http://indymediawatch.blogspot.com
20:46 < s> hehe saw that i while back.
20:48 -!- phillc [cgiirc] has joined #sydney
20:48 <@stacy-mtg> hi phillc
20:49 < gdm> ping
20:49 < phillc> oh man, so many connection problems
20:49 < phillc> sorry to have missed half the conversation now!
20:49 <@stacy-mtg> andycat will be back online in about 20 minz
20:50 <@stacy-mtg> if we can wait that long, we can talk more about drupal
20:50 < gdm> sounds good
20:50 <@stacy-mtg> any other thoughts in the mean time?
20:50 < phillc> If I can stay connected!
20:51 < gdm> well, i guess we can start talking about brisbane then?
20:51  * stacy-mtg holds on to phillc's shirttail
20:51 < phillc> I have a quection mostly for stacy and Sean actually
20:51 < gdm> or, stacy, u wanna update us ont he legal stuff?
20:51 < phillc> when cleaning all the spam from the mailing list do you "reject" or "discard" messages
20:51 <@stacy-mtg> i don't know if sean is going to make it
20:51 <@stacy-mtg> I discard unless i want to send a message back to the person
20:52 < phillc> right
20:52 <@stacy-mtg> in which case i write something like: fuck off no i don't want a fucking rolex thank you!
20:52 < phillc> Then I think I may very well be to blame for the increased rate of crap getting sent to the list :-(
20:52 <@stacy-mtg> ah
20:52 < phillc> because I habitually "reject"
20:52 <@stacy-mtg> :O
20:52 < phillc> I shall now certainly change to make sure I simply discard everything
20:53 < phillc> ping
20:53 < gdm> yeah, i discard everything on lists i help with
20:53 -!- phillc [cgiirc] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:53  * stacy-mtg is left with a piece of ripped shirt in her hands
20:53 <@stacy-mtg> hmmm... brissy then?
20:54 -!- phillc [cgiirc] has joined #sydney
20:54 < phillc> so as I was saying......
20:54 < phillc> I shall make sure I discard now rather than reject
20:54 <@stacy-mtg> cool
20:54 < gdm> do i have to minute this ;-)
20:54 < phillc> sorry :(
20:54 <@stacy-mtg> this pewter sucks... i'm going back to my lappy
20:54 < phillc> possibly not gdm , possibly not
20:54 -!- stacy-mtg [cgiirc@mail2.cat.org.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:56 <@stacy> ahh much better
20:56 <@stacy> gdm, phillc, I think it would be good to have it in the minutes
20:56 <@stacy> even if its just that list admins should discard most of the time
20:57 <@stacy> or just a note about the difference between discard and reject
20:57 < phillc> good point
20:57 < phillc> sure
20:57 <@stacy> ok... gdm, what did you want to know about legal?
20:58 < gdm> just saw you forwarded an email from imc-legal which was some request or other to remove stuff
20:58 < gdm> any comments?
20:58 <@stacy> yeah... people should read it and see what they think
20:58 <@stacy> i don't think its serious, and think we could safely ignore it
20:58 <@stacy> but then again i mite be wrong
20:58 < Len> which IMC is it referring to?
20:59 < gdm> well, what's the legal position of sydney imc?
20:59 <@stacy> www.indymedia.org.au
20:59 < gdm> is it a group, or an individual who is liable?
20:59 < s> heh
20:59 < s> the shadow global site ;)
20:59 <@stacy> gdm: constable karen elliot is responsible ;)
20:59 < gdm> ah, alrite, what is the legal position of sydney wrt i.o.au ??
20:59 <@stacy> s: yeah, the site doesn't seem to be very well moderated
21:00 < Len> like  ... do we have editorial control on indy.org.au? (I know the whois points to cat)
21:00 < gdm> exactly, Len
21:00 < s> cat's prolly liable as the registrar and host.
21:00 <@stacy> it's andy and someone else i've never heard of
21:00 <@stacy> andy said he looked at it once in 6 months
21:01 <@stacy> i think it could be shut down personally
21:01 < Len> but the whois is a favorite fishing expedition of lawyers
21:01 <@stacy> i didn't even know it existed
21:01 < phillc> yes, it does seem like a bit of a non-issue
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21:02 < gdm> do we need to make a proposal to global, from sydney, that the site be removed/archived or something?
21:02 -!- phillc [cgiirc] has joined #sydney
21:02 < Len> if the whois contact isn't the publisher - or has any editorial control - it should be a non issue - but then I'm no lawyer :)
21:02 < s> i don't think it's a 'functioning' project so would fall outside of PoU ;)
21:02 < cobra> president?
21:03 < cobra> fuck
21:03 < phillc> I'm not sure would need to do anything about this until the lawyer contacts us direct?
21:03 < cobra> isn't the austin guy thing from raisethefist a sort of a
21:03 < s> but it might be a good time to 'audit' that site/project no?
21:03 < cobra> president?
21:03 < cobra> i mean he got like, 2 years
21:03 <@stacy> cobra: do you want to raise an agenda item?
21:04 <@stacy> phillc: i agree
21:04 < cobra> no just commenting on existing conversation
21:04 < cobra> imho
21:05 <@stacy> cobra: does it relate to the discussion about indymedia.org.au?
21:05 -!- phillc [cgiirc] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:05 < cobra> as i see it, if not plz ignore :)
21:05 <@stacy> how so?
21:05 <@stacy> i don't understand
21:05 < s> how do people feel like doing a self audit of sydney indy against the PoU?
21:06 < cobra> wheeel, he WAS the server admin
21:06 <@stacy> for what?
21:06 < cobra> www.raisethefist.org or summat
21:06 < cobra> some guy posted a bomb-recipe
21:06 < s> for the site that was taken down in california - i think under patriot act...
21:06 < cobra> austin/sherman did not notice in time
21:06 < cobra> and he got his ass in da slammer
21:07 < s> not sure if the post in question on indy.org.au is the same type of post?
21:07 < s> anyone have a link?
21:07 < Len> there was an incident a few years back when something was posted about woomera detention centre to adelaide.indymedia.org and we received something from lawyers representing the company that runs the centre throuh the whois ... passed that onto Adelaide ... and I think we just ignored the rest or wrote back to say it wasn't anything to do with us as we weren't the publishers. Err have we moved on from this topic a bit?
21:07 < cobra> thx Len
21:07 <@stacy> i'm not sure that he got jail because he didn't notice in time
21:07 <@stacy> i thought he supported the post
21:07 < cobra> well he was held responsible
21:07 <@stacy> but that's us law, not aussie law
21:08 <@stacy> but good to know, cobra
21:08 < cobra> what is the auzzie law?
21:08 <@stacy> it's very vague
21:08 <@stacy> basically, you have to have heaps of money to bring a defamation suit
21:09 <@stacy> so most people don't
21:09 <@stacy> they just threaten
21:09 <@stacy> i agree with phillc that we could wait until he contacts us directly
21:09 <@stacy> but on second thought, the fact that i posted it to sydney means we are aware of it
21:09 <@stacy> maybe i should write a letter to him
21:09 < Len> oh yeah - defamation here is a long process - attrition - still in court long after the issue's forgotten
21:10 <@stacy> nah... fuck it
21:10 <@stacy> lets move on
21:11 <@stacy> s - you want to propose a self-audit for sydney?
21:11 -!- PhillC [cgiirc] has joined #sydney
21:11 < gdm> wait, 
21:12 < s> yeah.. and i think sydney could encourage the rest of the network/oceania as well..
21:12 < gdm> are we gonna make a suggestion to global to get rid of the i.o.au site?
21:12 < gdm> just to finish off that last discussion
21:12 < gdm> ???
21:12 <@stacy> gdm: i'd like to get andy's opinion on that
21:12 <@stacy> can you remember to ask him when he comes back?
21:13 < Len> are any indymedia's still dependent on it? adelaide?
21:13 <@stacy> i don't know anything about it
21:14 <@stacy> s, do you want to draft a proposal for the sydney self-audit?
21:14 <@stacy> propose a process, and method etc
21:14 < s> stacy: sure
21:14 <@stacy> cool... gdm... minute that!
21:14 < Len> no - just checked adelaides fine
21:14  * stacy thinks we'll probably fail
21:15 < gdm> mmmmmm
21:15 < gdm> contingency plan for when we fail?
21:15 <@stacy> self destruct?
21:15 < gdm> i think we'd fail too
21:15 <@stacy> or perhaps learn from it
21:15 < Len> take all the money and go to brasil?
21:15 < gdm> what money?
21:15 <@stacy> and take positive steps to improve ourselves
21:16 < Len> ;)
21:16 < s> i think the process can include a period of time for changes to be made so that the collective can fall back within
21:16  * ferret looks in empty pockets for money...
21:16 <@stacy> or just do what the government does: stash the report in a drawer somewhere and forget about it
21:16 < s> heh
21:17 < PhillC> ping
21:17 <@stacy> ping
21:17 <@stacy> pong
21:17 -!- PhillC [cgiirc] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:17 <@stacy> ok then...
21:17 < Len> points out that self criticism is a communist tactic, not anarchic
21:17 <@stacy> damn
21:18 <@stacy> shall we move on to.... dun dun dun dun...
21:18 -!- PhillC [cgiirc] has joined #sydney
21:18 <@stacy> brissy!
21:18 <@stacy> welcome back phillc
21:18 < PhillC> I think I just figured out my problem - well with regards to IRC anyway
21:18 <@stacy> cool
21:18 < PhillC> I'm just using the http client provided at chat.indymedia.org
21:19 < PhillC> and with Firefox there is no scroll bar on the right hand side, so when the chat fills the page, I just don't see anymore
21:19 < cobra> ciao all entertaining reading
21:19 < PhillC> I've logged on with IE now and there is a scroll bar so I'll let you know when the page fills ;-)
21:19 <@stacy> see ya cobra
21:19 <@stacy> thanks for joining us
21:19 <@stacy> and for your input
21:19 < cobra> np ciao
21:19 -!- cobra [~cobra] has quit [Quit: Client Exiting]
21:20 < s> ok i have some idea on process for self audit:
21:20 <@stacy> i was going to write an email to the imc-sydney list to explain why I think we should support the proposal for disafilliation
21:20 <@stacy> sorry s
21:20 <@stacy> go ahead
21:20 < s> np
21:20 < s> the suggestion is that sydney indymedia convene a series of meetings (face to face? or irc? or both) to discuss all the current principles of unity and to what  degree that the collective meets them... as a self correcting process. If serious breaches are found the collective should take a specific amount of time (90 days?) to make improvements and then audit again? if the collective continues to fall outside of the PoU then disaffiliation should be considered and new imc
21:21 < gdm> wow! i wondered what you'd been typing!!
21:21 < s> comments?
21:21 <@stacy> oof
21:21 <@stacy> imcuicide?
21:21 < gdm> sounds good
21:21 < s> i think this could _very_ healthy for the network
21:21 < s> heheh
21:21 < gdm> yeah definitely :-)
21:22 <@stacy> what would i do without my indy?
21:22 <@stacy> :(
21:22 < gdm> join global features ;-)
21:22 <@stacy> done that
21:22 < s> i can find a bunch of references for network development evolution for people to read... thinking specifically of a couple of zines i have...
21:23 < s> anyone have a probelem with this _type_ of self audit process?
21:23 <@stacy> no... guess not
21:23 < s> or the idea of self audit itself?
21:23  * stacy looks sheepish
21:24 < s> it feels like for any imc to suggest disaffiliation from the net they should be confident they aren't proverbially calling the kettle back
21:24 -!- Irssi: #sydney: Total of 7 nicks [2 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 5 normal]
21:24 < Len>  . o O (must read this POU sometime)
21:24 <@stacy> that's easy for you to say s!
21:24 <@stacy> you're not even in a collective, right?
21:25 <@stacy> not that that's bad
21:25 < gdm> err, isn't he in sydney imc????
21:25 < s> well i'm willing to work with sydney for now...
21:25 < PhillC> I don't have a problem with this, only wondering why it is we need to do it. is it just as s says, so that we aren't calling pots and kettles. Or do people feel there is a deeper malaise in Syd IMC that needs to be addressed?
21:25 < gdm> or doesn't he fit the 'membership criteria'??
21:25 < s> i did the poster for n30 ;)
21:25 < gdm> PhillC: both
21:25 < s> and _even_ signed up to the lists yesterday :)
21:25  * gdm pats s on the back
21:25 <@stacy> yeah, i guess i just feel like its hard enought to keep indy going without being too hard on ourselves unnecessarily
21:26 < ferret> perth IMC has been discussing BIMC, they have decides to support disafiliation
21:26 < s> PhillC: noth for sure...
21:26 < gdm> we're not talking about brissie yet, ferret
21:26 < gdm> PhillC: i think there is a much deeper malaise within sydney
21:26 < ferret> self regulation is good for the soul
21:26 <@stacy> gdm: what's that?
21:26 -!- PhillC [cgiirc] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:26 < gdm> i have felt this ever since i arrived
21:27 <@stacy> do tell...
21:27 < Len> OK - so we ditch the T-shirts and replace them with hair shirts ...
21:27 <@stacy> :)
21:27 <@stacy> hahaha
21:27 <@stacy> lol
21:27 -!- PhillC [cgiirc] has joined #sydney
21:27 < gdm> well, there is a lack of energy, a lack of ppl involved, an old, tired and weary site, little new blood and what there is doesn't seem to stick around...
21:27 <@stacy> yeah
21:28 < gdm> this is why i was so keen to update the codebase
21:28 < PhillC> I guess, while I can certainly see the value in doing it, it does seem like a lot of internal effort that could be used to produce better articles, features etc etc
21:28 < gdm> i thought that it might help get new ppl involved
21:28 < PhillC> I agree with everything GDM is saying, but not sure that an internal review achieves this
21:28 <@stacy> gdm: i'm keen on the new codebase
21:28 < Len> true gdm - on the other hand that's been the case since it started - there is a certain stability ...
21:28 <@stacy> just not necessarily the audit
21:29 < gdm> PhillC: i think that some of the points in going thru the process would help us address these issues
21:29 < gdm> like, what are we doing to actively involve new people
21:29 < gdm> esp. people who are normally disenfranchised
21:29 < PhillC> ok cool
21:29 < gdm> why are we all (generally) white and priviliged?
21:29 < Len> there's never been a serious drive for new people - be good to try
21:29 < PhillC> anything to get more people contributing more quality articles is good by me!
21:29 < gdm> why are there no indigenous people involved?
21:29 <@stacy> Len, gdm: we've tried to do volunteer drives before
21:29 < gdm> i'm sure we have
21:30 <@stacy> not a single damn person showed up
21:30 < gdm> but there's one thing holding a fundraiser and trying to get people involved
21:30 <@stacy> even tho we emailed all the ones who volunteered on line
21:30 < s> i think it's very imprtant again.. we should scrutizize ourselves _at least_ as far as we scrutinize other collectives in the network
21:30 <@stacy> and advertised a lot
21:30 < gdm> and it's entirely different getting ppl involved in actually _changing_ the site
21:30 < PhillC> that's actually something I don't think we do enough of - following up and actively involving the people that do volunteer on line
21:30 < gdm> that alone gives them some ownership over the project
21:31 < s> i think personal logins will mean more signal than noise on the new site...
21:31 < PhillC> I know I'm guilty of not emailing new volunteers and welcoming them
21:31 < gdm> instead of just maintaining somebody else's pet
21:31 < s> and prolly encourage people to 'stick' around the site rather than just browse on the way by...
21:31 <@stacy> Can i suggest that this discussion is heading into an actual self-audit, rather than a discussion about the merits of one?
21:31 < Len> yes - but past volunteer drives have been sort of fragmantary - not trying to denigrate your efforts stacy - more that it hasn't been something that the whole group has persued in a co-ordinated way
21:31 <@stacy> lets just do the damn thing when s gets it together
21:31 < PhillC> yep
21:31 <@stacy> and talk about it then
21:32 <@stacy> Len: yeah, i know what you mean
21:32 < s> 21:29 <@stacy> lets just do the damn thing when s gets it together???
21:32 < s> the proposal?
21:32 < s> or
21:32 <@stacy> I propose we end this discussion with an agreement to look at s' proposal and discuss it on the list
21:33 <@stacy> yeah, sorry to be crass, s
21:33 < gdm> wait, i think that was quite a useful discussion
21:33 < gdm> and it means that we can come to some kind of decision now
21:33 < Len> it's odd when you think of the awareness of Indy in the activist community (which is high) that there isn't more involvement - people just regard it as something that looks after itself, like a miling list
21:34 < gdm> and s can explain to ppl why he thinks it's a good idea
21:34 < gdm> Len: yes. and expect indy to report on their stuff!
21:34 <@stacy> gdm: it takes a lot of effort to involve people
21:34 <@stacy> most of us are vollies with little time to spare
21:35 <@stacy> i don't have the time to do a serious drive and follow up on everybody that says they're interested
21:35 < gdm> i wsan't talking about that
21:35 <@stacy> that's like a part-time job
21:35 < gdm> i was talkign about new-imc process type self audit
21:35 < gdm> and agreeing with s
21:36 -!- andycat [irc@localhost] has joined #sydney
21:36 < gdm> there may be other questions too that we are failing to address
21:36 < andycat> yes
21:36 < gdm> i haven't read them in a little while, and don't fully recall
21:36 < andycat> like should we kick gdm out
21:36 < andycat> :)
21:36 < andycat> hello
21:36 <@stacy> only I can kick ppl out... muahahahaha
21:36 < s> stacy: fair enough... but volunteers/diversity is just one point of the 10?
21:36 < Len> hi andy
21:36 < s> hay andycat 
21:36 <@stacy> that's why i'm saying lets discuss this on list
21:36 < andycat> hi len
21:36 < andycat> s
21:36 <@stacy> its a huge discussion
21:36 <@stacy> i dont wanna be here til 2am
21:37 < s> yeah
21:37 <@stacy> i have ideas too
21:37 -!- mode/#sydney [+o andycat] by ChanServ
21:37 <@stacy> :P
21:37 < PhillC> oh it's only early for me ;-)
21:37 -!- mode/#sydney [+o ferret] by andycat
21:37 < s> i think my earlier suggestion is clear though...
21:37 -!- mode/#sydney [+o gdm] by andycat
21:37 -!- mode/#sydney [+o Len] by andycat
21:37 -!- mode/#sydney [+o s] by andycat
21:37 <@s> that we either decide to do something like that or not...
21:37 <@stacy> friggin egalitarian
21:37 -!- mode/#sydney [+o PhillC] by andycat
21:37 <@ferret> thanx andy
21:37 <@s> then we can discuss the details...
21:37 <@stacy> i was enjoying being the dictator!
21:38 <@stacy> s: cool
21:38 <@gdm> yeah, i thought it was a pretty fair proposal
21:38 <@s> but it doesn't seem like deciding to discuss the details before we decide to actually do the self audit is odd.
21:38 <@s> ... and likely not to get much energy IMO
21:39 <@ferret> anyone got a link for the PoU? I can't find one on any indy site..
21:39 <@stacy> gdm: do you want to talk about i.o.a?
21:39 <@stacy> or do we want to talk about drupal?
21:39 <@gdm> docs.indymedia.org/view/Global/PrinciplesOfUnity or something like that
21:40 <@gdm> andycat: suggestion that something is done with indymedia.org.au
21:40 <@gdm> like, archive
21:40 <@gdm> or, just remove
21:40 <@gdm> it's currently just a dead open posting site
21:40 <@gdm> no one cares for it
21:40 <@gdm> or am i wrong??
21:40 <@gdm> perhaps you are secretly maintaining it without anyone knowing???
21:41 <@gdm> andycat??
21:41 <@gdm> <end>
21:41 <@Len> <-- didn't know it even existed
21:41 <@ferret> gdm: thanx, got them
21:42 <@ferret> someone is maintaining it, or it's getting recent cross posts
21:42 <@PhillC> frankly I didn't know it existed either
21:42 <@ferret> looks ok
21:42 -!- Irssi: #sydney: Total of 8 nicks [8 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 0 normal]
21:42 <@gdm> andycat: are u still here?
21:43 <@PhillC> oh yes I did, that's the Oceania site
21:43 <@gdm> ?? surely not ?? what's oceania.indymedia.org ??
21:44 <@PhillC> I just typed in indymedia.org.au and got the Oceania frontpage
21:44 <@ferret> looks fine to me
21:44 <@ferret> it is the oceania site
21:44 <@gdm> try global.indymedia.org.au
21:44 <@gdm> or global.indymedia.org
21:45 <@stacy> no, its g.i.o.au
21:45 <@PhillC> right
21:45 <@PhillC> that's a different site, that I didn't know existed :-)
21:45 <@stacy> yeah, and its getting us in trouble
21:45 <@stacy> like a feral child
21:45 <@stacy> i think andycat has gone walkies
21:45 <@andycat> hi
21:45  * s likes feral children lots :)
21:46 <@s> but not indy.org.au
21:46 <@stacy> andycat: what do you think about global.indymedia.org.au being shitcanned?
21:46 <@andycat> yeah
21:46 <@andycat> do it
21:46 <@stacy> you do it :P
21:47 <@stacy> gdm: put that in the minutes
21:47 <@gdm> alright
21:47 <@stacy> maybe we should send a notice to global first
21:47 <@gdm> just tell me what to do stacy ;-)
21:47 <@stacy> just in case somebody still loves it
21:47 <@stacy> gdm: get me a beer
21:47 <@stacy> :)
21:48 <@gdm> it'll be a while, stacy
21:48 <@stacy> who wants to send an email to global about it?
21:48 <@gdm> stacy: that's why i suggested len should write an email to imc-process about it
21:48 <@gdm> len - is that ok?
21:48 <@gdm> or did s wanna be the liaison??
21:48 <@gdm> he could do it for a few months maybe
21:48 <@gdm> what do ppl think?
21:48 <@Len> dm - sorry, talking with someone irl
21:49 <@PhillC> I try not to think unless absolutely necessary
21:49 <@gdm> or maybe we should have that discussion again
21:49 <@gdm> cos PhillC and andycat are now here
21:49 <@PhillC> helps me get through the day ;-)
21:49 <@Len> yeah fine I'll do the letter to global
21:49 <@andycat> what discussion?
21:49 <@Len> or process
21:49 <@stacy> i told andycat about the letter
21:49 <@stacy> Len: yes, process
21:50 <@andycat> did sean show up?
21:50 <@stacy> I can copy it to legal
21:50 <@stacy> no
21:50 <@stacy> but cobra did
21:50 <@PhillC> I'm fine with shutting down g.i.o.a and also fine with Len writing to Global about it
21:50 <@gdm> that was the discussion i was referrign to 
21:50 <@gdm> process liaison
21:50 <@gdm> we had it at the beginning
21:51 <@stacy> I thought we agreed on Len?
21:51 <@Len> what I'd like to know though - is why the lawyer did a whois on indymedia.org.au and not oceania.indymedia.org? that's the strange thing
21:51 <@andycat> its global.indymedia.org.au 
21:51 <@stacy> Len: it was Sascha who did the whois and the search to find the story
21:51 <@andycat> thats why
21:51 <@stacy> he's one step ahead of the lawyer
21:51 <@stacy> just anticipating his probable next move
21:52 <@stacy> Sascha is from Urbana-Champaign IMC
21:53 <@gdm> and paid!!
21:53 <@Len> still, I would have thought a search engine would have showed it as oceania.indy.org
21:53 <@andycat> its no oceania.indymedia.org , its global.indymedia.org.AU
21:53 <@stacy> no... the story that he's objecting to was on g.i.o.a
21:53 <@andycat> its not oceania.indymedia.org , its global.indymedia.org.AU
21:54 <@stacy> click on the link that sascha put up
21:54 <@stacy> http://www.global.indymedia.org.au/front.php3?article_id=844&group=webcast
21:54 -!- PhillC-too [cgiirc] has joined #sydney
21:55 < PhillC-too> can someone kick the other me
21:55 <@stacy> redundant phillc's
21:55 -!- PhillC was kicked from #sydney by andycat [PhillC]
21:55 < PhillC-too> thanks!
21:55 -!- mode/#sydney [+o PhillC-too] by ferret
21:55 <@Len> christ - yet another indy - looks apalling :)
21:56 <@stacy> yeah, it's sort of a bastard combination of active and indy
21:56 <@stacy> like their feral love-child
21:56 <@stacy> :)
21:56 <@andycat> what is the agenda? is there any?
21:56 <@stacy> we're talking about g.i.o.a
21:56 <@stacy> then on to brissy
21:57 <@stacy> or codebase first maybe
21:57 <@Len> still to do brisbane
21:57 <@stacy> can we do codebase first?
21:58 <@stacy> are you ok to do the email to process, Len?  or do you have more questions?
21:59 <@Len> no that's fine - has one been proposed? like should we get the wording down here or circulate something to the list?
21:59 <@stacy> circulate it to the sydney list first
21:59 <@stacy> i think
22:00 <@gdm> yes, then if no dissent in 48 hours or something, then send it on to imc process
22:00 <@stacy> yay!!!
22:00  * stacy hears an action point
22:00 <@Len> should do that - I take it I'm to draft it from what's been discussed here? (yuck)
22:01 <@stacy> yup, and based on the email i forwarded to imc-sydney
22:01 -!- PhillC-too [cgiirc] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:01 <@andycat> is this about brisbane?
22:01 <@stacy> no
22:01 <@stacy> it's about the letter from the lawyer that i showed you
22:01 <@andycat> oh - the global.indymedia.org.au site
22:01 <@andycat> ?
22:01 <@andycat> ok
22:01 <@stacy> yup
22:01 <@Len> process liaison as a separate item ... i think
22:02 <@stacy> cool.  then shall we move on to drupal?
22:02  * stacy cracks the whip
22:03 <@Len> yeah - I can take a break if we move on to drupal
22:03 <@andycat> drupal
22:03 <@stacy> ok... who's going to put up a test site?
22:04 <@andycat> we need a 4.5 install somewhere.. 
22:04 <@stacy> gdm: didn't you do one already?
22:04 <@andycat> then we can start playing around with it.. we need to organise some decent hosting.. perhaps CAT's colourful server where we already are?
22:04 <@gdm> no, i think andrew mcnaughton has done one
22:04 <@stacy> damn... wish phillc could stick around
22:05 <@gdm> it's on tacwols
22:05 <@stacy> url?
22:05 <@gdm> tacwols.cat.org.au
22:05 <@stacy> where is that boy?  he's usually in one of these rooms
22:05 <@gdm> can't remember exactly, web not working atm for me
22:06 <@Len> AFK for a bit
22:07  * andycat afk too
22:07 <@stacy> hmm... another dud start
22:07 <@stacy> how do we get this happening?
22:07 -!- PhillC [cgiirc] has joined #sydney
22:07 <@stacy> hey phillc
22:08 <@stacy> do you know where andrew mcnaughton has started the drupal 4.5 test site?
22:08 < PhillC> hmm
22:09 < PhillC> He did send around a URL I thought
22:09 -!- mode/#sydney [+o PhillC] by ferret
22:09 <@PhillC> let me have a dredge through some old mail and see what I have
22:09 <@stacy> cool
22:09 <@stacy> i think someone needs to be the... gasp... dare i say it?
22:09 <@stacy> leader
22:09 <@stacy> authoritarian
22:09 <@stacy> take-charge kinda person
22:10 <@andycat> facilitator stacy facilitator
22:10  * andycat oops - still afk :)
22:10 <@gdm> lol
22:11 <@PhillC> the URL I have is 
22:11 <@PhillC> http://tacwols.cat.org.au/drupal/drupal-4.4.2/
22:11 <@PhillC> but I get an error when trying to access it
22:11 <@stacy> ok, then, who wants to be the facilitator?
22:11 <@gdm> i thought you were doing it, stacy?
22:11 <@stacy> its s, phillc, or gdm
22:11 -!- PhillC [cgiirc] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:11 <@gdm> PhillC: that was the old drupal site that i set up
22:11 <@stacy> i don't know nufin bout it
22:11 <@gdm> damn he went
22:12 <@stacy> i'm the facilitator for the meeting
22:12 <@stacy> not the drupal dev
22:13 -!- PhillC [cgiirc] has joined #sydney
22:13 < PhillC> bugger, what did I miss?
22:13 < PhillC> last think I saw was Stacey asking for a facilitator
22:13 <@stacy> i'm trying to recruit a facilitator
22:13 <@Len> phill, you must be using a poxy server
22:13 <@stacy> someone to drive the project
22:14 < PhillC> and I also found http://sydney.tacwols.cat.org.au/ which I think is John August's implementation of Dada
22:14 < PhillC> Len: I am using a proxy
22:14  * PhillC takes deep breath
22:14 < PhillC> I'll facilitate
22:14 <@stacy> yay!!!!
22:14 <@Len> . o O (that wasn't a typo)
22:14  * stacy hugs phillc
22:15 <@stacy> gdm: minute that pls :)
22:15 < PhillC> I'll just write that letter of resignation now so that I have the necessary time to devote to this ;-)
22:15 <@stacy> hehehe
22:17 < PhillC> OK
22:17 < PhillC> If I'm going to do this I have about a million questions to start with
22:17 <@stacy> cool
22:17 <@stacy> can you ask them onlist?
22:17 < PhillC> what's the best way forward?
22:17 < PhillC> right the list
22:17 < PhillC> no prob
22:17 < PhillC> is that the tech list?
22:17 < PhillC> I think I have subscribed
22:17 < PhillC> ;)
22:17 <@stacy> that way you can get andrew mcnaughton involved
22:17 <@stacy> er... don't know
22:18 <@stacy> would be good to do it in imc-sydney also
22:18 <@andycat> what r u facilitating phillc ? 
22:18 <@andycat> this meeting or drupal project?
22:18 <@andycat> :?
22:18 <@andycat> write imc-sydney-tech i suppose... if u r talkin about drupal - nobody been using that list tho'
22:19 -!- PhillC [cgiirc] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:19 <@andycat> ugh
22:19 <@stacy> i'm pretty sure it was the drupal project
22:19 <@stacy> shall we move on to brissy then?
22:20 <@andycat> yeah.. lets just say we can start to use imc-sydney-content list to discuss drupal, get an install done , and announce it ...
22:20 -!- s [irc@localhost] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
22:20 <@andycat> the exodus has started
22:20 <@stacy> yeah... mention brissie... works every time
22:21 <@stacy> anybody have anything they want to say or ask?
22:21 <@Len> draft the process letter?
22:21 <@stacy> i will do a draft for consideration of imc-sydney
22:21 <@andycat> :)
22:21 <@Len> yay - that means I don't have to
22:22 <@stacy> yeah... i've got a lot to say about it
22:22 <@stacy> maybe i should write a letter of resignation too
22:22 <@stacy> :)
22:22 -!- PhillC [cgiirc] has joined #sydney
22:23 < PhillC> andy@ drupal I believe
22:23 < PhillC> I'll write up my questions and send them to both imc-sydney and the sydney-tech list
22:23 <@Len> so ... what was the letter I agreed to draft earlier?
22:23 < PhillC> heh
22:23 <@andycat> phillc: ok
22:23 <@stacy> about closing global.indymedia.org.au
22:25 <@stacy> Len: it was about closing global.indymedia.org.au
22:25 <@stacy> and if anybody objected
22:26 <@Len> ok
22:26 <@gdm> it would be good to use the imc-drupal-dev list
22:26  * gdm catching up - sorry
22:26 < PhillC> ok
22:26 <@gdm> so maybe cc both if you want it on both
22:26 <@stacy> brb
22:27 <@gdm> the thing about having a more general list like that
22:27 <@gdm> is that there are also drupal coders in canada 
22:27 <@gdm> who i think are subscribed
22:27 -!- PhillC [cgiirc] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:27 <@gdm> or should be invited to be subscribed
22:28 <@andycat> yeah actually imc-sydney-tech is kinda defunct... maybe it should be killed, and all stuff go to imc-drupal-dev
22:28 <@andycat> ?
22:28 -!- PhillC [cgiirc] has joined #sydney
22:28 <@gdm> i'm kool with that
22:28 < PhillC> ok, there seems to be quite a few different lists, but I'll send an initial email to all of them and then consolidate to a couple
22:28 <@gdm> i think someone just subscribed me to imc-sydney-tech ;-)
22:29 -!- s|mtg [irc@localhost] has joined #sydney
22:29 <@andycat> yeah actually imc-sydney-tech is kinda defunct... maybe it should be killed, and all stuff go to imc-drupal-dev
22:29 <@andycat> (for phillc's benefit)
22:29 < PhillC> what about imc-sydney-software? and interface@cat.org.au?
22:29 <@andycat> both old/dead/not being used
22:29 < s|mtg> can some one msg me logs for last 15 mins pls
22:30 < PhillC> the thing about drupal-deb is that it may not have all the right sydney people on it
22:30 < PhillC> drupal-dev i mean
22:30 < PhillC> who can help answer things about logons, passwords, MSQL access etc
22:30 <@gdm> so they should subscribe ;-)
22:30 <@gdm> and send an email to imc-sydney saying it's being discussee on imc-drupal-dev
22:30 < PhillC> right
22:31 <@gdm> did u get the bit about the canadians, PhillC 
22:31 <@gdm> ?
22:31 <@gdm> cos they run it at cmaq, which is quebec indy
22:31 <@gdm> but it's a much older version
22:31 <@gdm> i tink the trees divulged now
22:31 <@gdm> but it'd be interesting to work with others 
22:31 <@andycat> i will sub :)
22:32 <@gdm> ther's different potentials also
22:32 <@gdm> for different imcs
22:32 <@gdm> eg some might want translations
22:32 < PhillC> ok, current imc-drupal-dev subscribers are - 
22:32 < PhillC>     * andrew at scoop.co.nz
22:32 < PhillC>     * erik at mediamutiny.org
22:32 < PhillC>     * finn at animal-liberation.org.nz
22:32 < PhillC>     * gdm at fifthhorseman.net
22:32 < PhillC>     * harlequin at cat.org.au
22:32 < PhillC>     * lexi at bubbl.net
22:32 < PhillC>     * phillclarke at gmail.com
22:32 < PhillC>     * robbt at azone.org
22:32 < PhillC>     * shayne at perthimc.asn.au
22:32 < PhillC>     * stacy at cat.org.au 
22:32 <@gdm> which is probably less important at sydney
22:32 <@gdm> and when discussion starts, more will join :-)
22:33 <@gdm> i don't think imc-tech has even been informed about this list yet
22:33 < PhillC> mkay
22:33 <@gdm> so it's just been word of mouth so far
22:34 <@gdm> anyone else wanna say anything about codebases??
22:34 <@gdm> should we set any kinds of targets for getting work done?
22:34 <@gdm> what are important things we need to think of for moving over?
22:34 <@gdm> eg, presentation, moving content, ease of posting, anonymity...?
22:35 <@gdm> multimedia - audio, video, images, as well as text
22:35 <@gdm> and so on ...
22:35 <@gdm> people??
22:35 <@gdm> <end>
22:35 <@gdm> <end>
--- Log closed Thu Nov 25 22:37:37 2004
--- Log opened Thu Nov 25 22:37:44 2004
22:37 -!- gdm_ [irc@localhost] has joined #sydney
22:37 -!- Irssi: #sydney: Total of 8 nicks [6 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 2 normal]
22:37 < gdm_> hi
22:38 < gdm_> 22:34 <@gdm> anyone else wanna say anything about codebases??
22:38 < gdm_> 22:34 <@gdm> should we set any kinds of targets for getting work done?
22:38 < gdm_> 22:34 <@gdm> what are important things we need to think of for moving over?
22:38 < gdm_> 22:34 <@gdm> eg, presentation, moving content, ease of posting, anonymity...?
22:38 < gdm_> 22:35 <@gdm> multimedia - audio, video, images, as well as text
22:38 < gdm_> 22:35 <@gdm> and so on ...
22:38 <@stacy> there's a guy from canarias asking questions about imc-process
22:38 -!- Irssi: Join to #sydney was synced in 52 secs
22:39 -!- s|mtg_ [irc@localhost] has joined #sydney
22:39 < s|mtg_> grrr.
22:39 < gdm_> hehehe
22:39 < gdm_> i'm talking to you again s...
22:41 <@andycat> what is happening?
22:41 < s|mtg_> ok
22:41 <@andycat> ok?
22:41 < gdm_> um i'm not sure
22:41 < s|mtg_> drupal dev
22:41 < gdm_> any comments on codebase stuff, or are we moving on?
22:41 < s|mtg_> issues we need to think re migration / organization?
22:41 <@andycat> move on
22:42 <@andycat> we can talk about on the list
22:42 < gdm_> ok
22:42 <@stacy> i don't think anybody wants to say anything about brissy
22:42 <@stacy> oh right
22:42 <@stacy> gdm is still on drupal
22:42 <@stacy> i agree
22:42 < gdm_> yeah, brisbane is up now :-)
22:42 <@stacy> ok
22:42 <@stacy> anybody?
22:43 <@andycat> wasnt somebody going to draft a letter
22:43 <@andycat> stacy?
22:43 < gdm_> i wanna hear Len's opinion
22:43 <@stacy> yes
22:43 < gdm_> Len: ??
22:43 <@andycat> stacy can u re post the notes from the f2f we had
22:43 <@andycat> :)
22:43 < s|mtg_> i think sydney indy should support MIMC proposal.
22:44 <@stacy> yeah, but it'll take a minute
22:44 -!- Len [cgiirc] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:44 < s|mtg_> i think in due process sydney should initiate a self audit as well.
22:44 <@stacy> got to go in the other room and email them to myself
22:44  * andycat whispers "die die die"
22:44 <@stacy> unless gdm has it from the start of the meeting
22:45 <@andycat> gdm logs are going to be fucked since he dropped in and out all time ... 
22:45 <@stacy> ahh..
22:45 <@stacy> brb
22:45 < s|mtg_> gdm is taking copius minutes :)
22:45 -!- len [cgiirc] has joined #sydney
22:46 < gdm_> nope ;-)
22:46 < gdm_> only intermittent ones of what i can be bothered with :)
22:46 < s|mtg_> andycat: what do you think of a sydney indymedia self audit?
22:46 < gdm_> are we back on that one again??
22:47 < gdm_> what happened to brissy, s?
22:47 < gdm_> len: what do you think???
22:47 <@andycat> s|mtg self audit sounds good
22:47 <@andycat> s|mtg self_ audit sounds good
22:47 <@andycat> s|mtg_ self audit sounds good
22:48 <@andycat> :0
22:48 < s|mtg_> :)
22:48 < s|mtg_> glad to see your so enthusiastic! ;)
22:48 <@andycat> :0 is baboon face 
22:49 < gdm_> len: what do you think about brisbane???
22:49 < len> was AFK - and missed disc on brissy when mozilla crashed - do you wish my thoughts?
22:50 < s|mtg_> has everyone seen what brisbane has published on their new homepage?
22:50 < s|mtg_> feature on the situation
22:50 < gdm_> len: yes
22:50 < s|mtg_> misleading and false in bits afaik
22:50 < gdm_> we haven't really started discussion yet
22:50 < gdm_> s|mtg_: yes
22:51 <@stacy> just sent f2f minutes to imc-sydney
22:52 < s|mtg_> "cat gavehrm... looks like it's been edited!?
22:52 -!- s|mtg [irc@localhost] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
22:52 < len> I'm not up on what's been happening recently - apparently global feel brisbane should be disaffiliated because they're being obnoxious and can't get on with the other indys - and that may be enough to warrant disaffiliation - even though it seems a bit expedient
22:52 < s|mtg_> wtf!???
22:52 -!- gdm [irc@localhost] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
22:52 <@andycat> s|mtg_ : what are you perplexed about?
22:53 < gdm_> stacy: thanks
22:53 < s|mtg_> brissy
22:53 < gdm_> what do you think sydney's stance should be, len?
22:55 < len> one thing I feel is that currently brissy is still an IMC like any other until a decision is made otherwise - and so any requests by them should be treated the same as other indys - I mean they're not in some limbo and cat shouldn't pre-emt the decision to disaffiliate
22:55 < s|mtg_> i don't think cat has pre-empted - can you explain?
22:56 <@andycat> i think len is meaning the DNS update ... len?
22:56 < len> I'm also uncomfortable about the 'silence is consent' attitude to concensus - this is quite a serious issue and should be treated a bit better
22:56 < gdm_> that opinion has come forward also from germany, i think it was
22:56 < gdm_> the deadline is probably extended to 12 noon, gmt, 12 december 2004
22:57 < gdm_> so that more imc's can voice opinion
22:57 < s|mtg_> len: i agree re: passive consent and is why i think sydney should not 'ride the fence' on this issue.
22:57  * stacy needs to get to sleep if she's going to draft this letter tomorrow
22:57 < gdm_> well, stacy 
22:57 < len> well, yeah - refusing requests from brisbane for DNS etc at this stage pre-empts the disaffiliation decision (which will probably happen anyway)
22:57 < gdm_> you shouild tell us your opinion here as well
22:57 < s|mtg_> i'm out in 20
22:57 < gdm_> if you are gonna be drafting a letter for sydney imc
22:57 <@andycat> i only got around to updating their DNS today  (as per shaun's email )
22:57 <@stacy> i agree with len about the dns stuff
22:58 <@stacy> but that's solved
22:58 < s|mtg_> andycat: thx for doing that
22:58 < gdm_> it should include everyone's opinion - or concensus, or whatever
22:58 <@stacy> i support disafiliation, and I will be explaining why in my letter
22:58 <@stacy> unlike others, i have been intimately involved in this
22:58 <@stacy> so I know all the details
22:58 < gdm_> are u explaining from a personal point of view, or from a collective one?
22:58 <@stacy> I would hope that would count for something
22:59 < gdm_> i think posts to imc-process should be collective ones
22:59 <@andycat> i feel a bit odd voicing my opinion since i've been personally named by kimci and shaun as an "evil-doer" some many times
22:59 <@stacy> I'm putting all the facts and information that I have into a letter explaining why i support disafiliation
22:59 < s|mtg_> that's clear. as do i under two PoU
22:59 < gdm_> stacy: many others have been intimately involved as well
22:59 < s|mtg_> 6. All IMC's recognize the importance of process to social change and are committed to the development of non-hierarchical and anti-authoritarian relationships, from interpersonal relationships to group dynamics. Therefore, shall organize themselves collectively and be committed to the principle of consensus decision making and the development of a direct, participatory democratic process] that is transparent to its membership.
22:59 < gdm_> i agree with andycat 
22:59 < gdm_> but that doesn't mean i'm not going to ;-)
22:59 <@stacy> gdm_ but I'm drafting a letter
23:00 < s|mtg_> 8. All IMC's are committed to caring for one another and our respective communities both collectively and as individuals and will promote the sharing of resources including knowledge, skills and equipment.
23:00 <@stacy> others are welcome to also
23:00 <@andycat> lets be clear - stacy is drafting a letter to imc-sydney for us to comment on , THEN a letter goes to imc-process
23:00 <@andycat> isnt taht it?
23:00 < gdm_> ok, that's what i want to be clear about
23:00 <@stacy> yes
23:00 <@stacy> as always
23:00 < s|mtg_> yes andycat 
23:00 <@andycat> but there is a deadline on the 28th so we need to be fast
23:00 < s|mtg_> we are your yes people ;)
23:00 < gdm_> :P
23:00 <@stacy> yes, that's why i want to get to bed so i can do this tomorow
23:00 <@andycat> what??
23:01 < gdm_> captain, oh my captain ;-)
23:01 <@andycat> s|mtg_ you suck
23:01 <@andycat> ugh
23:01 <@stacy> i thought the deadline was now the 12th
23:01 < gdm_> lol
23:01 < s|mtg_> andycat: what? what?
23:01 <@andycat> gdm_ you suck
23:01 <@andycat> :)
23:01 < s|mtg_> andycat: click clack
23:01 <@andycat> ok lets be serious
23:01 < gdm_> it is probably, dunno if that is totally agreed, but certainly not vetoed
23:01 < gdm_> lol
23:01 < gdm_> very funny
23:02 < gdm_> someone show the logs to kimci ;-)
23:02 <@stacy> ok...
23:02 <@stacy> nite all
23:02 < s|mtg_> as if the pot needs more stirring...
23:02 < gdm_> seriously,
23:02 < gdm_> i'm gonna be writing to imc-commynication
23:02 < gdm_> from a personal point of view
23:02 < s|mtg_> let's have active concensus...
23:03 < s|mtg_> len: this process sound cool?
23:03 < gdm_> i'm also trying to garner support for some kind of letter from imc-uk
23:03 < gdm_> but i want _their_ opinions, not mine
23:03 < len> <s|mtg_>: here and now?
23:03 <@stacy> gdm_ why don't you criticise my letter *after* I write it :P
23:04 -!- stacy is now known as stacy-zzz
23:04 < gdm_> cos to me it sounded like you were gonna write a personal letter to process which you were gonna pass by the list first
23:04 < len> we could reach concensus over the weekend via the list?
23:04 < gdm_> but i think that we have an opportunity here to discuss it as a group
23:04 < gdm_> and see what everyone thinks
23:04 <@stacy-zzz> too late
23:04 < gdm_> so those opinions can all be included
23:05 < s|mtg_> len: yeah as: 22:57 <@andycat> lets be clear - stacy is drafting a letter to imc-sydney for us to 
23:05 < s|mtg_>                  comment on , THEN a letter goes to imc-process
23:05 < s|mtg_> :)
23:05 < gdm_> i understood that now
23:05 < gdm_> :)
23:05 < s|mtg_> smily if you consent and then we cut out
23:05 < s|mtg_> ?
23:05 < gdm_> :)
23:05 < len> 8+}
23:06 < gdm_> anyway, len's gonna send it surely, if he's liaison?
23:06 < len> nods
23:06 < s|mtg_> suppose so...
23:06 < s|mtg_> cool
23:06 < gdm_> len, u need to send a list introduction to imc-process, too
23:06 < gdm_> please :)
23:06 < s|mtg_> we;; 3 hours later... i'm going to cut out of mtg mode.
23:06 < gdm_> that wasn't 20 minutes stacy-zzz 
23:07 < len> to gdm you mean just to subscribe myself?
23:07 < gdm_> s|mtg_: i meant
23:07 < gdm_> yup len
23:07 < gdm_> should be a link off that page, or a form, rather
23:07 < s|mtg_> well is there more to discuss?
23:07 < gdm_> if you need help, email me
23:07 < gdm_> so we all for disaffiliating brisbane??
23:07 < s|mtg_> we should document imc-sydney position in wiki
23:07 < gdm_> until they pass thru the new-imc process again?
23:07 < len> should be in an e-mail somewhere ... lists.indymedia.org
23:08 < s|mtg_> gdm: i'd like to see a self audit as part of the process
23:08 < gdm_> and and stacy will write an email about it to send to the list
23:08 < gdm_> and if everyone agrees
23:08 < gdm_> len will send it on to imc-process
23:08 < gdm_> and the other thing 
23:08 < gdm_> is that imc-sydney
23:08 < gdm_> also proposes to undergo a self-audit
23:08 < gdm_> shane will send this proposal to the list
23:09 < s|mtg_> :)
23:09 < gdm_> and then we will discuss it and let imc-process know as well
23:09 <@andycat> ok
23:09 < gdm_> so, two separate emails, 
23:09 < gdm_> but very connected points
23:09 < s|mtg_> sure.
23:09 < s|mtg_> and a flurry of response hopefully :)
23:10 < gdm_> :)
23:11 <@andycat> drifting out of mtg mode ... real soon now
23:15 < s|mtg_> back
23:15 < s|mtg_> what did i miss?
23:18 -!- len [cgiirc] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:18 <@andycat> len just quit, did u catch that?
23:19 <@andycat> fast paced action round here...
23:19 < gdm_> hehehe
23:19 < s|mtg_> :)
23:19 < gdm_> yup, raving
23:19 < s|mtg_> aight too many conversations...
23:19 < s|mtg_> later kids.
23:19 < gdm_> indeed
23:19 < gdm_> i'm well confused ;-)
23:21 <@ferret> good to know we all confused... I've been afk and just read the logs...
23:21  * ferret rolls eyes
23:21 <@ferret> I add to consensus... kill BIMC
23:22 <@ferret> or whatever. But I thought that sydney imc had decided to stay out of the process because cat is intimately involved in the BIMC scandal and Syd IMC?
23:23 <@ferret> As wowi says, if they get a new collective up and running they can go through new IMC in about a week
23:23 < s|mtg_> your _always_ confused gdm.
23:24 <@ferret> Perth has reached consensus to diasafilliate
23:24 <@ferret> according to their recent lists
23:24  * s|mtg_ contemplates peronsal disaffiliation w/gdm ;)
23:24 < s|mtg_> ferret: indeed re: new imc
23:24 <@ferret> disaffilliate away...
23:24 <@ferret> hehe
23:25 <@ferret> I'd imagine that kimk's new collective with asger would be hot contenders....
23:25 <@ferret> for the new bimc
23:26 < gdm_> i've confused you?> s|mtg_ 
23:26 < gdm_> i'm just confused again
23:26 <@andycat> there can be any number of indymedia collectives.. there is no contenders for "a" brisbane imc
23:26 <@andycat> there can be any number of indymedia collectives.. there are no contenders for "a" brisbane imc
23:27 <@ferret> hehe someone in perth suggested cultivating some BIMC members for the new IMC... they got told off for bad taste while the current BIMC was still alive...
23:28 <@ferret> hmmm, there could be a second BIMC, but how would they be told apart? different names?
23:28 <@ferret> BIMC + "Gold Coast" IMC......
23:31 < s|mtg_> ferret: cat imc 'scamdal' is political perspective on the issue afiak.
23:32 < s|mtg_> only seems to be scandelous in the eyes of few.
23:32 <@ferret> scandal would be their words...
23:32 <@ferret> bullshit would be others...
23:32 <@ferret> the BIMC affair?
23:33 <@ferret> what is the cat politically correct erm?
23:33 <@ferret> term?
23:33 < s|mtg_> vexatious claims by some of the BIMC ;)
23:33 <@ferret> hehe
23:33 < s|mtg_> ??