**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Oct 17 17:02:45 2003 Okt 17 17:02:45 --> You are now talking on #interview Okt 17 17:02:47 --- briks gives channel operator status to Alster Okt 17 17:03:06 --> elnovato () has joined #interview Okt 17 17:03:21 hello Okt 17 17:03:23 aloa? Okt 17 17:03:28 --- briks gives channel operator status to elnovato Okt 17 17:03:40 hi carlos Okt 17 17:03:47 hehe Okt 17 17:03:55 hadn't realized you're already here Okt 17 17:04:20 of course, you are distracted watching cnn Okt 17 17:04:37 wait a minut Okt 17 17:04:45 i need to get more people here Okt 17 17:05:07 ok Okt 17 17:05:11 --> linksrhein (irc@localhost) has joined #interview Okt 17 17:05:18 hi :-) Okt 17 17:05:19 wait a min Okt 17 17:05:24 something important happened Okt 17 17:05:39 half of the support, Okt 17 17:05:47 --> violet () has joined #interview Okt 17 17:05:53 --> amino (irc@localhost) has joined #interview Okt 17 17:05:56 hello Okt 17 17:05:59 almost half of the guberment alliance, abandoned the president Okt 17 17:06:53 --> beerber () has joined #interview Okt 17 17:07:25 so we're getting more now Okt 17 17:07:34 --- briks removes channel operator status from briks Okt 17 17:07:49 what happened, elnovate? Okt 17 17:08:04 elnovato that is Okt 17 17:08:13 where do you get your information from? Okt 17 17:08:21 and wehre in la paz are you situated? Okt 17 17:08:38 can you actually see what is going on on the streets Okt 17 17:08:41 manfred reyes villa, important politic and part of the guberment coallition, abandoned the president and the coalliton, and joined to the people demand, to resign the president Okt 17 17:08:56 yeah cool Okt 17 17:09:09 im listening the news by radio Okt 17 17:09:18 --> ski (irc@localhost) has joined #interview Okt 17 17:09:22 and i live near the center (miraflores) Okt 17 17:09:24 whichradio channel is it? Okt 17 17:09:39 Erbol and panamerica Okt 17 17:09:50 are there more people on the streets where you live? Okt 17 17:09:58 http://www.panamericanabolivia.com Okt 17 17:10:33 no Okt 17 17:10:53 but thousands of manifestants are comming from el alto Okt 17 17:10:53 not more than usually before everything tarted right? Okt 17 17:11:19 what is the situation like compared to before everything started up Okt 17 17:11:36 how big is the mobilisation outside of el alto? Okt 17 17:11:39 things are becoming worst Okt 17 17:11:42 can you describe a bit how things changed for you personally Okt 17 17:11:52 mobilisations are really big Okt 17 17:12:01 now, is not just the farmers Okt 17 17:12:14 is the middle class Okt 17 17:12:23 do you have any numbers? Okt 17 17:12:35 and non political personalities, joined to this popular clamor Okt 17 17:13:05 according the news radio, thousands are comming today Okt 17 17:13:18 and like all those days Okt 17 17:14:34 did the way you live your daily life change in any way since the movement began Okt 17 17:14:44 i mean is it still everyday live? Okt 17 17:14:54 well, as a citizen of la paz, the main problem is the food suply Okt 17 17:15:13 why is it so difficult to get food? Okt 17 17:15:16 and the economical activitie is null Okt 17 17:15:30 well, luckly i have reservs Okt 17 17:15:37 are the shops still opened? Okt 17 17:15:41 but most of people dont have Okt 17 17:15:49 becouse all reservs in the city are empty Okt 17 17:15:57 becouse with the blocking and Okt 17 17:16:21 the imposibility of Okt 17 17:16:37 bring basic products to the city, makes the things hard for people Okt 17 17:16:47 one carrot costs 1 dollar Okt 17 17:17:04 soo you can imagine the rest Okt 17 17:17:22 is this for la paz or for all of bolivia? Okt 17 17:17:25 and things like meat and milk there is not Okt 17 17:17:31 just la paz Okt 17 17:17:36 * violet raises hand and asks short Q: "are the people from Oruro, Rio Bajo, Ayacachi already close to La Paz ?" Okt 17 17:17:52 yes, Okt 17 17:18:02 oruro is 300 kms from la paz Okt 17 17:18:12 and the rest < 100 kms Okt 17 17:18:20 all people from the towns are here Okt 17 17:18:23 most farmers Okt 17 17:18:41 another q, violet? Okt 17 17:18:44 miners, workers Okt 17 17:19:05 not for now. Okt 17 17:19:13 * Alster thinks whoever has questions to ask please just give it a go Okt 17 17:19:14 how do the military forces treat the situation? we heard they were violent? Okt 17 17:19:29 well, the first days Okt 17 17:19:56 what about the other infrastructure beside food Okt 17 17:19:57 was sort of dictatorial Okt 17 17:20:14 ok, answer the first questio first Okt 17 17:20:14 now, seems they aware of that, and stoped to kill in mass Okt 17 17:20:23 althoug yesterday died 2 people Okt 17 17:20:42 .. Okt 17 17:21:04 what about the other infrastructure? Okt 17 17:21:06 power Okt 17 17:21:08 gas Okt 17 17:21:10 oil Okt 17 17:21:15 water Okt 17 17:21:26 communications like telephone, internet and stuff Okt 17 17:21:34 all working as well as before? Okt 17 17:21:54 is the local press able to work freely? Okt 17 17:21:56 yes, most of all Okt 17 17:22:04 but if the things goes ahead Okt 17 17:22:17 prollly the suply of water and electricity could be cut Okt 17 17:22:25 by the miners and farmers Okt 17 17:22:37 the press is working Okt 17 17:22:43 althoug 2 days ago Okt 17 17:22:55 2 radios was Okt 17 17:23:01 interrupted by force Okt 17 17:23:13 what do you expect/hope/fear for the next few days? Okt 17 17:23:22 where that community radio's? Okt 17 17:23:34 well, the situation went Okt 17 17:23:36 very far Okt 17 17:23:42 what's the general feeling in the population? Okt 17 17:23:57 (radios are in Potosi, miners and university radios) Okt 17 17:24:06 Q: is the middle class supporting the miners, famers and the poor in the struggle? Or are they satying at home, watching tv? Okt 17 17:24:31 now , the feeling is anger Okt 17 17:24:48 middle class are in the streets too Okt 17 17:24:59 they joined the general demanding Okt 17 17:25:12 the resign of president Okt 17 17:25:22 vecinal joints Okt 17 17:25:33 are now in the middle of the city Okt 17 17:25:57 also, a lot of rich and high class, Okt 17 17:26:07 installed Okt 17 17:26:09 --> zl2tod () has joined #interview Okt 17 17:26:32 installed? Okt 17 17:26:43 i mean, Okt 17 17:26:53 they are in universities Okt 17 17:26:56 churchs Okt 17 17:26:58 joined them? Okt 17 17:27:21 joined to the general clamor Okt 17 17:27:31 but they are in the churchs and universities Okt 17 17:27:35 oh like academics Okt 17 17:27:39 yes Okt 17 17:27:51 are people already trying to leave la paz b/c they are worried about the develpment of the situation? Okt 17 17:27:59 they dont eat, and demands the resign of the president Okt 17 17:27:59 and can they? Okt 17 17:28:21 well, i dont believe Okt 17 17:28:27 people, at least bolivians Okt 17 17:28:33 wants to leave la paz now Okt 17 17:28:45 becouse this thing is something cronical Okt 17 17:28:52 and the anger is too big Okt 17 17:29:06 of course is imposible to leave la paz Okt 17 17:29:25 but, after all those events Okt 17 17:29:52 for what reason can't one leave la paz? military? transport? Okt 17 17:29:57 i believe must go be finished, and finally release what the people wants Okt 17 17:30:20 well, htere is no transportation Okt 17 17:30:32 airport is to much far from the city Okt 17 17:30:48 every ways are blocked by farmers and miners? Okt 17 17:30:51 the airlines are not working Okt 17 17:31:02 all blocked Okt 17 17:31:16 the intellectials don't eat, damanding the president to leave, did i get that right? Okt 17 17:31:32 not just by farmers, and miners, also by residents and citizenz, universitary Okt 17 17:31:33 etc Okt 17 17:31:48 or some of them at least Okt 17 17:32:11 hunger strike? many people? Okt 17 17:32:12 yes Alster Okt 17 17:32:27 yes, beerber Okt 17 17:32:30 thousands Okt 17 17:33:08 now, the guberment is falling by pieces Okt 17 17:33:31 yesterdayt , the mayor guberment representant, quit Okt 17 17:34:34 today , part of the gubernment coalltion, resigned Okt 17 17:35:38 what do you expect/want now? Okt 17 17:35:44 what about the military and the police, are they still behind Goni or are ther signs of mutiny (Meuterei)? Okt 17 17:36:42 the militar, are considering their position Okt 17 17:37:00 but for now, they support yet to the guberment Okt 17 17:37:20 well, Okt 17 17:37:29 but a president who goberns a country Okt 17 17:37:38 without the people Okt 17 17:37:58 only with the support of force and violence Okt 17 17:38:03 can be called TIRAN Okt 17 17:38:19 we got news, that 15 soldiers/policemen where tortured and some of them even killed because they refused to carry out commands. did you heared something about that? Okt 17 17:38:45 i dont find another term for that, and that the general outcry Okt 17 17:39:04 briks, Okt 17 17:39:25 yes, thats true Okt 17 17:39:58 even , they didnt allow to youth indian militar , Okt 17 17:40:43 were separed, becouse they had afinity to the general outcry Okt 17 17:41:09 you mean youth indians were not allowed to join the military? Okt 17 17:41:38 what's the opinion of the indian population compared to the general population? Okt 17 17:41:46 no, youth indians already in military service, Okt 17 17:41:51 were not allowed Okt 17 17:42:25 .,.. Okt 17 17:42:31 well, its very fragmented Okt 17 17:42:34 ok i got you now Okt 17 17:42:38 --> Zapata (~bla@localhost) has joined #interview Okt 17 17:42:42 have any new groups formed within the past days to get the president to leave? like people from the church or students or professors from the university? is the hunger strike a community event or is it just single persons having the same idea and staying at home? Okt 17 17:42:59 sorry, please anwer beerber's wuestion first Okt 17 17:43:09 ok Okt 17 17:43:18 as i said is very fragmented Okt 17 17:43:24 for 1 side, comes Evo Morales Okt 17 17:43:48 who is a farmer, and representative of the indians in the walleys of bolivia, (cocaleros becouse they produced coca) Okt 17 17:44:21 another side, is Felique Quispe, who represents the farmers in the mountain area of bolivia Okt 17 17:44:42 the 3rd side, comes from the people from the jungle Okt 17 17:45:03 who their position is separatist Okt 17 17:45:38 and also the middle class position, and high class Okt 17 17:45:54 but the things than are in common: Okt 17 17:46:00 1. resign of the president Okt 17 17:46:20 2. constituent assembly Okt 17 17:46:39 3. refund of the state, and national constitution Okt 17 17:46:55 and its very evident Okt 17 17:47:04 after the resign or not, of the president Okt 17 17:47:23 will come a lot of polemics and discordance Okt 17 17:48:53 what do you personally think, will all this happen? how long will it take, if so? Okt 17 17:49:23 and will things get better in general or will the next president just be another corruptive one? Okt 17 17:49:38 well, i think the idea now is very clear Okt 17 17:49:43 though this years Okt 17 17:50:05 the guberment lost a lot of credibility Okt 17 17:50:28 and finally, actually Okt 17 17:50:40 the state is in hands Okt 17 17:50:55 of a little joint of people, who evidently obeys Okt 17 17:51:13 --> occam (irc@localhost) has joined #interview Okt 17 17:51:15 the demands of US Okt 17 17:51:21 and FMI Okt 17 17:51:42 this demands, became more important than the basic need Okt 17 17:51:48 the needs of population Okt 17 17:52:07 in statistics terms, the poverty Okt 17 17:52:18 increased dramaticly Okt 17 17:52:48 the breach, of poberty incresed 50 years more Okt 17 17:53:10 * Alster wonders if anyone has questions left? Okt 17 17:53:12 before was 20 years Okt 17 17:53:35 also the unemployement Okt 17 17:53:37 what can we do? Okt 17 17:54:26 well, i donno what can be done , from outside, becouse its evident Okt 17 17:54:27 yeah what's the best way to help? you sid people are running low of food Okt 17 17:54:34 anything else? Okt 17 17:54:40 than is not just provide with money to poor countries, Okt 17 17:54:55 * ski is just reading Okt 17 17:54:59 its a matter of conscience Okt 17 17:55:14 in poor countried, being a political is a business Okt 17 17:55:29 when, it should be a social and moral activitie Okt 17 17:55:38 i think this time has arrived for bolivia Okt 17 17:56:24 the conscience here , achieved a level when , people is not waiting anymore, they want to be part of the action Okt 17 17:56:47 and as you see, this action, could be a revolution or anything Okt 17 17:57:12 Hi elnovato, i'm Mark in New Zealand. We hear a little about conflict in LaPaz, what is happening in the rest of the country ? Okt 17 17:57:14 europe and usa Okt 17 17:57:36 always just imposed demands to poor countries Okt 17 17:58:11 and unluckly here, our political classs Okt 17 17:58:23 was very corrupted by all those oportunities Okt 17 17:58:36 ... Okt 17 17:58:39 zl2tod Okt 17 17:58:50 in la paz the situation is reaching the top Okt 17 17:58:57 guberment is falling Okt 17 17:59:30 in cbba the panorama is similar Okt 17 17:59:34 but less violent Okt 17 18:00:06 is the military active everywhere in the country? Okt 17 18:00:08 except in santa cruz, than the things are normal, but with the same feeling Okt 17 18:00:13 how many people are in la paz ? Okt 17 18:00:16 no, just in la paz Okt 17 18:00:28 here 1.6 million Okt 17 18:01:06 and how many enlist at the protest ? Okt 17 18:01:45 if you mean, the general feeling Okt 17 18:01:48 i think 100% Okt 17 18:01:54 :-) Okt 17 18:01:59 if you mean, who is in the street, 40% of the population Okt 17 18:02:45 well, general feeling 99%, except the president , who believes he can gobern a country with force and violence, and say "this is democracy" Okt 17 18:02:46 wow Okt 17 18:03:12 are there differences between indians and the rest of the population? Okt 17 18:03:21 yes, Okt 17 18:03:36 here the 'class' diference is very much Okt 17 18:04:03 and the races very mixed Okt 17 18:04:34 indians, they demand basics things Okt 17 18:05:18 what do you mean by "basic"? Okt 17 18:05:20 the cities, demands jobs, economical, etc Okt 17 18:05:21 because they generally belong to a lower class? Okt 17 18:05:35 well, Alster, indians, far from the cities Okt 17 18:05:40 dont have access to even Okt 17 18:05:42 are there links between ethnical and class differences? Okt 17 18:05:46 clean water, or electricity Okt 17 18:05:50 --> brikz (irc@localhost) has joined #interview Okt 17 18:05:50 <-- briks has quit (Quit: sorry) Okt 17 18:05:52 or sanitary services Okt 17 18:06:16 and you can imagine, how this people lives Okt 17 18:06:30 of course is not in the extreme of africa Okt 17 18:06:40 but, its like the time stop in that places Okt 17 18:06:44 no development Okt 17 18:06:51 under-development, tahts the word Okt 17 18:07:04 and that last for years Okt 17 18:07:21 no advance, and the actions of the guberments Okt 17 18:07:25 all those years Okt 17 18:07:33 didnt fix that situation Okt 17 18:07:43 some right-wing paper in the US whose name I wont mention wrote that the poverty in bolivia is the fault of poor Okt 17 18:07:58 because they were effectively trying to keep the government from making business with the US Okt 17 18:08:01 soo , thats one of the reason why this people started this conflict, becouse theyre abandon Okt 17 18:08:23 which, according to them, would bring them revenues Okt 17 18:08:50 in part is true Okt 17 18:08:59 how many people in bolivia do you think share this opinion ? Okt 17 18:09:17 and is any of the media in bolivia spreading the same arguments? Okt 17 18:09:29 unluckly, the guberment and , as you know, bolivia is ranked as one of the most corrupted countries in whole america Okt 17 18:10:05 in bolivia, there is a problem Okt 17 18:10:16 the conscience Okt 17 18:10:26 people, knows the guberment is corrupt Okt 17 18:10:42 and guberment controls part of the media Okt 17 18:10:50 but the people just ignores taht Okt 17 18:10:57 i mean, it became a sort of normality Okt 17 18:11:14 another question for later: how is the situation for the media at the moment ? are (international) reportes / photographs in the streets ? Okt 17 18:11:39 --- occam is now known as occam-aafk Okt 17 18:11:41 but seems, than this is changing Okt 17 18:11:59 after presindent Banzer, who was president 3 years ago Okt 17 18:12:42 the conscience of the people woke up Okt 17 18:13:02 this is really an important change Okt 17 18:13:22 after 20 years of democracy (and support the corruptcy) Okt 17 18:13:31 things are changing Okt 17 18:13:48 what caused this change of conscience? Okt 17 18:14:12 you mean that people don't believe what the media controlled by the government say? Okt 17 18:14:28 they dont Okt 17 18:14:49 well, in this moments, its ridiculous ignore, we are living a crisis Okt 17 18:15:05 sorry, please answer Alster's question Okt 17 18:15:32 and this president, is knowed by his media interference Okt 17 18:15:35 ... Okt 17 18:15:40 well Alster Okt 17 18:15:45 :) Okt 17 18:16:04 this change is propoused initially by the farmers Okt 17 18:16:23 and cocaleros (coke producers) Okt 17 18:16:30 5 years ago Okt 17 18:16:45 when they started a war, similar to this one , but in Cochabamba Okt 17 18:17:25 defending the production of coca (lets not forget than coke was a important basis of the bolivian economy years ago) Okt 17 18:18:02 this process Okt 17 18:18:12 its evident, has grown Okt 17 18:18:36 and reached middle class, farmers from the north-west Okt 17 18:18:42 etc Okt 17 18:19:16 soo, finally, this is the result, of insatisfaction Okt 17 18:19:48 elnovato: I was looking at a lot of pictures these days of bolivian politicians, etc. and I see a lot of (if not all of them?) are 'white' men of spanish/european descent. gringos you would say. is it correct that the country is in large controlled by this ethnic group and how does the majority of people in the country feel about that? Okt 17 18:19:49 how dit it develop from cocaleros to middle/upper class? Okt 17 18:20:01 sorry:) Okt 17 18:20:19 sorry 2 :-) Okt 17 18:20:23 animo: yes Okt 17 18:20:38 althoug we dont like a racist fight Okt 17 18:20:44 I read in the CIA (cough) factbook, that about 15% of the population are 'white' Okt 17 18:21:05 but, the leads of the this country , are most white Okt 17 18:21:15 why is it that this ethnic group is so dominant in controlling bolivian political life and what do the people think of doing about that? Okt 17 18:21:51 and thats a probe, of a country domintaed by a political and a class, who have the power, even to gubern Okt 17 18:22:15 well, the answer amino, is the money Okt 17 18:22:31 for example Goni (actual president) Okt 17 18:22:50 he is part north american Okt 17 18:22:55 but he is also a business man Okt 17 18:23:26 he controls all miner production in bolivia Okt 17 18:23:37 I would say that north americans prefer making business with other 'white' people rather than indigenous ones, am I correct? Okt 17 18:24:05 yes, its correct Okt 17 18:24:19 but actually , north america dont have important investments in bolivia Okt 17 18:24:26 most are europeans Okt 17 18:24:54 the pilar of the political relatioshipo between bolivia and wahington is: the drugs Okt 17 18:24:57 and norcotrafic Okt 17 18:25:30 the US has been pretending to fight narcotics cultivation in bolivia Okt 17 18:26:14 yeah, the figure is: Bolivia, a country than 40% of the Pib was based on coke production Okt 17 18:26:36 and US, with the political to destroy all coke in the world Okt 17 18:26:56 i donno , indidectly or not , destroyed an important pilar in bolivia Okt 17 18:27:28 i mean, what US offered , for the destruction of drugs and coke production?? Okt 17 18:27:48 well, US used that excuse, Okt 17 18:28:03 and now bolivia is where it is Okt 17 18:29:19 to clarify: are coca plants cultivated just for the production of drugs that are meant to be sold in northern america? Okt 17 18:29:39 yeah, most of the production went to USA Okt 17 18:30:01 but Okt 17 18:30:47 i mean, if its posible One coutnry , can go to another country , destroy the production and part of the economy, and just leave like that?? Okt 17 18:31:18 I heard cultivating coca was traditional in bolivia Okt 17 18:31:29 of course, here is natural herb Okt 17 18:31:33 is for healing Okt 17 18:31:34 etc Okt 17 18:31:49 wha for, US people used coca, is not our fault Okt 17 18:32:04 and the same as IRAK Okt 17 18:32:05 but you said the majority of the production was meant for sale in the US Okt 17 18:32:20 US beleives they can bomb a country, and put their rules Okt 17 18:33:03 aparently, that can be discoused, Okt 17 18:33:39 if the majority of coca was to be processed into cocain and sold in the us, then that would explain why the US has an interest in stopping coca cultivation in bolivia Okt 17 18:34:21 yes, but the problem is not just to stop a factory Okt 17 18:34:39 this must be replaced by something Okt 17 18:35:11 becouse people produced coca, becouse they are farmers Okt 17 18:35:22 because the economy would break down if not Okt 17 18:35:24 ? Okt 17 18:35:43 and what they are going to eat if you destroy their production? Okt 17 18:35:50 yes, thats the contradiction Okt 17 18:35:59 cant they cultivate food of some sort? Okt 17 18:36:13 the solution was, alternative production, bananas, papayas, oranges, etc etc Okt 17 18:36:27 but, US dont want to open their markets Okt 17 18:36:32 to bolivian products Okt 17 18:36:43 soo that becomes a vicious cycle Okt 17 18:36:49 you mean they wont import them? Okt 17 18:36:58 yes Okt 17 18:37:08 becouse here, the internal market is too little Okt 17 18:37:15 for a production like that Okt 17 18:37:26 where is the US getting their bananas and papayas from? Okt 17 18:37:43 im not sure Okt 17 18:38:02 but the general idea, Okt 17 18:38:05 is tthat Okt 17 18:38:18 and that is the origins of the actual problems now Okt 17 18:38:25 --> elfo (irc@localhost) has joined #interview Okt 17 18:38:26 hi Okt 17 18:38:47 hi elfo Okt 17 18:38:51 brb Okt 17 18:39:03 basically the US is getting their bananas and papayas from countries where they sell them for cheaper Okt 17 18:39:08 --> skep (irc@localhost) has joined #interview Okt 17 18:39:28 so a country like bolivia is going to produce things that can be sold abroad at a much higher profit Okt 17 18:39:35 and thats drugs Okt 17 18:39:36 * linksrhein frowns Okt 17 18:39:39 well, we are not talking abouyt bananas and things Okt 17 18:39:50 here can produce anythign Okt 17 18:39:59 US doesnt want to open the market Okt 17 18:40:02 thats the problem Okt 17 18:40:10 a few minutes ago, you mentioned the different social classes in bolivia: coca-workers, farmers, miners, middle class, industrials, intellectials, academics , upper class, etc. which group would you assign yourself to if you had too? Okt 17 18:40:10 we can produce cars, bananas, etc Okt 17 18:40:15 what about europe? Okt 17 18:40:17 well you're going to produce things that can be sold at a good price Okt 17 18:40:33 thats the logic of the market Okt 17 18:40:46 Alster, im a business guy Okt 17 18:40:56 hehe :) Okt 17 18:41:32 any questions and fingers left? Okt 17 18:41:36 elnovato: is it safe for you to go in the streets now? Okt 17 18:41:41 animo, what you say, eveybofdy knows Okt 17 18:41:50 and the problem is not solved, with just words you said Okt 17 18:41:54 its more complex than that Okt 17 18:42:01 whats is planned for the next days? Okt 17 18:42:32 its safe, aparently now, the guberment is falling down Okt 17 18:42:49 well, Okt 17 18:43:00 seems than the vicepresident Okt 17 18:43:09 will be the president Okt 17 18:43:45 and, he is planning the new gubernment Okt 17 18:44:08 luckyly Okt 17 18:44:14 this new one, is a intellectual Okt 17 18:44:26 not a business man, or a political Okt 17 18:45:11 ok, brb Okt 17 18:45:47 <-- elnovato () has left #interview Okt 17 18:46:43 he just said he's goin to eat now Okt 17 18:46:51 i guess he will be back Okt 17 18:47:10 * occam-aafk back later... Okt 17 18:47:16 if you have further questions please type them now Okt 17 18:47:21 <-- occam-aafk has quit (Quit: back later) Okt 17 18:47:27 i will try to ask him later when he returns Okt 17 18:47:48