16:25 -!- boud changed the topic of #india to: 23:00 IST TUESDAY ImcGoa - https://docs.indymedia.org/view/Local/ImcGoa
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19:18 < vidya> Hi, Anabel
19:18 < Anabel> Hi 
19:19 < vidya> boud, are you there?
19:19 < boud> yes :)
19:19 < boud> hi vidya
19:20 < boud> hi anabel
19:20 < Anabel> Hi Boud
19:20 < vidya> Anabel is a member of the list who contacted me after reading about the IMC Goa initiative, and has now joined our chat.
19:21 < vidya> Fredrick Noronha may drop in later.
19:21 < boud> anabel - are you in Goa ?
19:21 < Anabel> yes I am
19:22 < Anabel> I read about the new initiative in goa, and got in touch with vidya
19:22 < boud> cool - that means we'll probably have 3 people from goa together if fredrick comes along...
19:23 < vidya> I'm planning on putting out a proposal on various Goa mailgroups. Some good people have already expressed interest. We basically have to set the ball rolling.
19:23 < boud> do you know how to use the twiki? you can add yourself to https://docs.indymedia.org/view/Local/ImcIndiaWho if you like
19:23 < boud> that was to anabel
19:23 < Anabel> am not really sure how ot use it but will try to, thanks
19:24 < boud> Register  at top left of page
19:25 < boud> you need two names, when you click in the 2nd box, it automatically creates you a user name in the style CamelCase
19:26 < boud> it's a wiki like wikipedia, just different wiki software
19:26 < Anabel> okay
19:27 < vidya> Meanwhile, boud, as Anabel does that, could you give us some tips on how to proceed with organising?
19:27 < vidya> And what steps are involved? I've read the HowTo.
19:28 < boud> this page? https://docs.indymedia.org/view/Global/NewImcHowTo
19:28 < vidya> yes
19:29 < Anabel> I have registered myself
19:30 < boud> anabel: do you know about opening several windows in parallel, or else several tabs (with firefox, click with right button and then "open in new tab")? 
19:30 < boud> it's useful for working in parallel between several web pages/sites
19:30 < Anabel> thanks boud
19:31 < boud> anyway, try going to https://docs.indymedia.org/view/Local/ImcGoa  and  try editing (top or bottom of page has edit link)
19:31 < boud> try a simple edit and preview and/or save
19:31 < boud> afterwards, vidya can test the twiki controls on edit conflicts ;)
19:31 < boud> anyway, back to the process
19:33 < boud> let's think through the 10 steps, or in fact, steps 1 to 7 are the main ones - step 8 is "official" (according to our draft process ;) approval by the network
19:33 < boud> and 9 and 10 you'll do anyway :)
19:35 < boud> well, do you (plural you) think you've already done step 1? 
19:35 < vidya> the way step 1 is put is very 'politically correct'. What I thought we would do is contact people we know and try and get as good a mix of interested people as possible.
19:37 < boud> sure, but the "political correctness" is actually serious stuff - it's not necessarily easy to do, but IMHO it's worth it
19:37 < boud> and the precise text is the result of one of the few global decisions we've made in the network
19:38 < vidya> how can we address the digital divide in India? Maybe 10% (optimistic) of the people in Goa have access to the net, and they're in the upper income brackets.
19:38 < vidya> So how can we possibly be really 'representative'?
19:39 < boud> through face-to-face meetings
19:41 -!- fn [...] has joined #india
19:41 < vidya> Step 1 can be done, but it will take time and effort.
19:41 < vidya> hi fn
19:42 < boud> it's unlikely to be perfect, but the claim in indymedia is that we are *not* just an internet community - we have a strong internet component, but it's strongly anchored in the non-internet world
19:42 < boud> hi fn 
19:42 < fn> hello
19:42 < Anabel> Hi fn
19:43 < fn> Please carry on...
19:43 < boud> fn - be careful when you're talking to people in france - FN is (unfortunately for you) the initials of the fascist party...
19:43 < vidya> Organising's going well, the Goa group is up to 3 already, with one advisor :-)
19:43 < boud> :)
19:44 < boud> responding to: Step 1 can be done, but it will take time and effort.
19:44 < boud> true
19:45 < boud> i don't think anybody in other imc collectives expects miracles - but they do expect new collectives to invest a reasonable amount of time and effort
19:45 < boud> and to be honest about this and document what you've done (or not done)
19:46 < vidya> so we have to get people to commit, right? How many personhours per week are required?
19:46 < boud> well, it's not that formal ;)
19:46 < fn> There already are some not-for-profit networks in existance, with some (small) degree of progressive elements in them. How do we interface with them? I think we need to build synergies rather than launch small initiatives which don't add up.
19:47 < boud> BTW: is everybody OK with the log of this chat being public ?
19:47 < boud> i'll assume yes, unless someone is against
19:47 < vidya> yeah, but india imc floundered largely because of lack of time among collective members and the problems of coordinating in such a vast country.
19:47 < fn> No problem with me.
19:48 < vidya> Cool with me. Anabel, you awake?
19:48  * boud probably having fun learning twiki ;)
19:49 < fn> Instead of discussing too much (and risking the paralysis of analysis), let's just go ahead and start building suitable content.... 
19:49 < Anabel> am awake :-), just getting myself acquainted to what is happening...am sorry for teh silence
19:49 < boud> fn - do you mean content of the website? 
19:49 < vidya> fn's question about synergies is important. But I see IMC-Goa aiming at a more 'progressive' profile as compared to others.
19:49 < fn> We already have a network which to build on... it's not as if nothing exists... Lots of people are willing to write for cyberspace, provided they get the readers...
19:50 < vidya> Yeah, fn's a veteran of the internet and the media and of organising, so honestly, step 1 should be do-able.
19:51 < fn> Yes boud. Vidya, as far as the profile of IndymediaGoa goes, I agree. But the challenge is to ensure that we get more progressive voices in the mainstream, and more progressive voices (from the mainstream) into Indymedia. As long as it remains small and ghettoised, this is unlikely to happen.
19:52 < fn> While Goa has this problem of having a strong conservative voice dominating discourse, you can bet at least 10% of those active in writing, academia etc have a strong progressive basis. Which is a good place to start off. We needn't start from zero.
19:53 < vidya> I'm not preaching exclusivity, but the kind of right-wing Lusitologia and worse that is so popular in Goa (and now communalism) is a real problem. How do we cope if they invade?
19:54 < vidya> boud, maybe you could guide this discussion. fn and I chat all the time anyway.
19:54 < fn> The no-hate speech rule should be easy to set priorities (assuming there is one). Also, we need a firm grounding in making sure that the right people are attracted right from the beginning -- not just about anyone.
19:55 < fn> To brief boud on some background...
19:56 < fn> We have a not-for-profit mailing list called Goanet. This is entirely voluntary-driven (but a mix of different points of views, including a strong conservative element). But since it has a readership of 8000., it's very easy to convince people to write for this. My idea is that if Indymedia could build synergies with such initiatives (which have existed for the past 12 years), it would help to make a nascent group like Indymedia viable.
19:59 < vidya> Yeah, one of the first steps would be to float the proposal on goanet and other mailgroups. Then face-to-face meetings with people who can volunteer time and effort...
20:01 < fn> If you do that, you risk (i) attracting the wrong types (ii) envy and rivalry (as is a typically Goan trend). Would it not be preferable to get the system in place, put in a few good writeups, and then announce it making clear its positioning and niche?
20:02 < fn> We can also work out a content sharing arrangement with Goanet underwhich Indymedia-Goa and Goanet share each other's pieces they're interested in.
20:02 < vidya> boud?
20:03 < boud> i'm thinking... and listening...
20:03 < boud> ummmm....
20:04 < vidya> anabel, what do you think? Fresh minds...
20:04 < boud> and i've updated https://docs.indymedia.org/view/Local/ImcGoa
20:04 < fn> If someone takes care of the software, tech, uploading part, I can certainly help with content...
20:04 < boud> anyone else free to update it - we can together see how twiki deals with edit conflicts ;)
20:04 < fn> There's already a lot of progressive stuff that needs to be brought under one umbrella. Getting permission to reproduce would be easy too.
20:05 < vidya> i'll try
20:05 < boud> fn - i think what you have in mind is a mix between a general wiki site and a website of a typical indymedia collective
20:06 < boud> personally, i'd be in favour of a strong wiki component (though it's not my decision)
20:07 < vidya> fn will have to conduct a small workshop on wikilogy, he's the resident guru.
20:07 < fn> Wiki isn't rocket science. Anyone can learn it in two hours. Or less...
20:07 < boud> i certainly agree :)
20:08 < vidya> boud, i further updated https://docs.indymedia.org/view/Local/ImcGoa
20:08  * boud i just saw :)
20:09 < vidya> what kind of time frame should we be looking at for step 1?
20:10 < boud> ok, i'll try explain what the "differences" are between a "standard" indymedia vision and what fn has said
20:10 < boud> sorry, that crossed
20:11 < boud> vidya : in some sense, steps 1 to 7 don't need to be strictly chronological, it's a good idea to read through MembershipCriteria and PrinciplesOfUnity right from the beginning
20:11 < boud> there's no set time frame, but i guess something like a few weeks is reasonable
20:12 < boud> you contact groups, invite them, explain the idea of indymedia, and then hold a first meeting, then maybe a second
20:12 < boud> agreeing on time/place/date requires some delay, then working on issues from the first meeting requires time
20:13 < boud> back to fn's points
20:13 < fn> Please be very selective in whom you invite. We can't afford another invasion of all and sundry (and people with questionable biases), as almost overwhelmed SecularGoa.
20:14 < vidya> yes, but then isn't there a conflict between 'representativeness' and 'selectiveness'
20:15 < boud> well, this is why all the different factors (see the points in MembershipCriteria and PrinciplesOfUnity ) come into play
20:16 < boud> in principle, at least
20:17 < boud> first just a disclaimer:
20:18 < boud> my point of view of what is acceptable in the indymedia network is not necessarily correct, it's just my attempt to describe it
20:19 < boud> the decision-making process in new-imc (step 8) is also in principle only an "advisory" decision, so that the new-imc working group does not have the political right to decide on behalf of the whole network - we're a small bunch of people, and it would be unreasonable for us to have the right to decide
20:19 < boud> the "real" decision gets made later on imc-process
20:20 < boud> so the idea is that if people organise in goa and disagree with boud, then first of all you can generally discuss in new-imc and have a good chance of overriding me (unless my views agree with other new-imc people)
20:21 < boud> and secondly, if you think new-imc has been taken over (by sangh parivar or cia or trotskists or crazy people), then you could try to insist that new-imc propose your collective to the network
20:21 < boud> ok, end of disclaimer
20:22 < vidya> I think what we need to do now is to read all the HowTo stuff carefully, meet up, and then start putting the word out. We can sort out sticky issues as they arise.
20:23 < boud> a few keywords related to fn's comments include: content first? openness? how to be open while avoiding domination (problems) with fascists?
20:23 < boud> the claim in indymedia is that we are people first, not content first
20:25 < boud> and also that we are radically open - "fascists" are unlikely to participate in local face-to-face meetings, and so they cannot gain editorial control
20:27 < fn> I'm not sure that how it works in these parts of the world. The issue isn't "Fascists" here, but people who set about stoking religious infighting so that they can continue their hegemony over society. Or an old elite who uses almost any subtle means of defending the colonial rule. You might find this unusual but that's how it work.
20:28 < fn> Also, there are a number of people already 'in place'. Considering that I know Vidya since 1987 (yes 1987). And that Goa is a small place.... if you want to get something working, we need to move quickly on it, otherwise it will be seen as another venture that just promises and nothing happens.
20:28 < vidya> A suggestion, let us in Goa take a few steps first, then we will have one more discussion like this. Else we will be theoretically hair-splitting till kingdom come!
20:28 < boud> :)
20:29 < boud> ok, so fn - what do you think of step 1 on https://docs.indymedia.org/view/Local/ImcGoa ?
20:30 < boud> do you know women's groups or individual women who are likely to participate?
20:31 < vidya> Anabel for one :) But seriously, there are both groups and women who will particiapte.
20:31 < boud> and a rather sensitive subject....
20:31 < boud> do you have contact with adivasi groups/individuals who would be interested?
20:33 < vidya> There are practically no 'adivasis' in Goa (though the govt. defintion has changed). But there are good contacts with progressive elements from most sections.
20:34 < boud> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Scheduled_Tribes_in_India  Goa
20:34 < boud>     * 1. Dhodia
20:34 < boud>     * 2. Dubla (Halpati)
20:34 < boud>     * 3. Naikda (Talavia)
20:34 < boud>     * 4. Siddi (Nayaka)
20:34 < boud>     * 5. Varli
20:34 < fn> Goa has a number of activists, including women's groups. Some have been active since the late 'eighties. What they need now is very practical ways of putting their content online, in a way that gets noticed. They don't have access to the techniques of doing this, and are unsure of where to start. Also, building up real-world writing skills would help. 
20:35 < boud> fn: sure this i totally agree with (from What they need...)
20:36 < fn> There is a well-organised Dalit network. Dadu Mandrekar, it's leader, is a good friend of ours. The problem is that the Dalits make up only 2% of the Goa population.
20:36 < vidya> forget wikipedia, the population of all these groups put together is seriously negligible. We have good contacts with dalit activists.
20:36 < boud> ok
20:37 < boud> and do you think that you could get a bunch of all these people together and organise a non-hierarchical meeting?
20:37 < fn> If you see Goa through general perspectives on India, the picture may be misleading. There is a large aboriginal popoulation which has long been fighting for scheduled tribe status. So while the groups named above would be fringe groups making up a tiny section of the population, the Gavada, Kunbi, Dhangar and Velips would number maybe 20-25% of the Goa pouplation.
20:37 < fn> But most of this population is yet to get its own voice to express itself, leave alone enter cyberspace. 
20:37 < vidya> sure, non-hierarchical and chaotic :)
20:38 < fn> Then, there's the issue of the middle castes in Goa, many of whom are still to get a voice, among both Hindus and Catholics.
20:38 < fn> Unless they all get some results and fast, they're not going to have the time or energy to play around with this new technology for too long.
20:39 < vidya> Honestly, I don't see the net as a way of giving them a direct voice, given the digital divide. It's more a case of creating a space where their concerns can be represented.
20:39 < boud> well, two important things here:
20:39 < boud> it is *perfectly* OK to start up a web site before the "new-imc process" has finished
20:39 < fn> We should also look at the spirit of the rules. For instance, Anita Haladi, a common friend, has written a very interesting paper on the OBC (other backward class) population of Goa and how it is getting adversely affected by 'development'. Regardless of backgrounds of the author, we need to get such views online. Fast
20:40 < boud> but secondly, people on new-imc will generally be unhappy with trying to get network approval "fast"
20:40 < fn> Then let's get going with a website while the process is on...
20:40 < boud> sure, absolutely
20:41 < boud> can you find a local server?
20:41 < fn> I'm eager about this because there's so much progressive Goa content, but much of it is not widely circulated. If this happens, it could change the way 'romanticised' Goa is seen by the outside world.
20:42 < boud> the thing is, what i said is only half-correct - *if* you find your own server, then you're perfectly welcome to start a web site fast, but if you want a server "from the network" (which is not that easy anyway, tech stuff is still rather stressed), then you have to wait till you're accepted by the network
20:42 < fn> There are hardly any reliable servers in Goa. Because bandwidth here is still a constraint. I run my site http://fn.goa-india.org from a server in the UK.
20:43 < vidya> fn, let's not get hooked on 'fast', it's waited so long, a few more months won't end the world. Let's get the process going.
20:43 < boud> at the beginning, the bandwidth is unlikely to be large
20:45 < fn> Get the website going., we can go on with the process in parallel. From experience it's obvious that too much planning could lead to disipation of energies.
20:47 < boud> hey, an idea - the forming goa collective could volunteer to temporarily get the india site going again as an emergency collective, and then once you're through the new-imc process, you get your own web site and then decide whether or not imc goa is willing (or able) to handle imc india...
20:49 < fn> I don't mind helping with generating content for imcindia, provided someone is willing to help with the tech side... 
20:49 < vidya> that's very ambitious, india site is such a mess, it needs lots of clean-up, and the bad content has to be continuously checked and 'hidden'. 
20:50 < fn> Can't we just try to start with a fresh slate, instead of being burdened by a whole lot of deadweight?
20:50 < fn> Don't forget, India Indymedia is also terribly important... globally.
20:51 < boud> ok, seems to me both vidya and fn are uncomfortable with temporarily restarting imc india (at the moment anyway)
20:51 < boud> so scrap that suggestion 
20:52 < boud> well, one thing that IMHO you're definitely ready to get started is step 4
20:53 < vidya> It's very important, but it's a big ask for just a few people. We need at least 1-2 people from the old collective pitching in for some time at least, maybe vickram, but haven't heard from him for ages.
20:53 < boud> sure, i agree
20:54 -!- fn [...] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF)]
20:54 < boud> anabel - in the interests of gender balance, would you interested in being a co-administrator of the imc goa mailing list ? it's possible to have several admins
20:54 < Anabel> i am willing to help where ever necessary, but would need some of guidance initially
20:55 < boud> i think you answered before you had time to read my line ;)
20:55 < Anabel> i guess 
20:55 < boud> fn left us, by the way
20:56 < vidya> yeah, probably lost his connection, joys of the internet in goa.
20:56 < Anabel> i have got an idea of what is happening and what needs to be done, Vidya can you help me out to get a little more oriented with what exactly is needed for the IMC goa inititative.
20:57 < Anabel> maybe later
20:57 < vidya> will help in any way I can
20:57 < Anabel> thanks... : )
20:58 < boud> mailing list admin *could* actually become politically important if there are "subtle" communalists who eventually create disruptions on the list, though the idea is to be as open as possible
20:58 < vidya> boud, I think the best would be for us here to get our act together a bit, and we could communicate by email for some time with you, and then once things are proceeding, have one more chat?
20:58 < boud> sure, but if you want to start "fast" (as per fn's feeling) you could start the mailing list now
20:59 < boud> but since fn's not here, there's less pressure ;)
20:59 < boud> fn made several good edits to https://docs.indymedia.org/view/Local/ImcGoa BTW
20:59 < vidya> mailing list's easy, we can start anytime, tell us the admin details.
21:00 < boud> reload  https://docs.indymedia.org/view/Local/ImcGoa
21:00 -!- fn [...] has joined #india
21:00 < boud>  ctrl-R or a new window or reload button
21:00 < vidya> fn's really savvy, with him on board, much of the battle is won.
21:00 < boud> look for mailing list e.g. with ctrl-f
21:00 < fn> Sorry, am back...
21:01 < fn> My hardware has a random reboot problem ;-)
21:01  * boud we used your name in vain, hope you don't mind ;) - this is a christian quote - i was religious when i was younger...
21:01 < boud> i think vidya's looking for the mailing list link
21:01 < fn> Vidya, I'm not so sure. The issue isn't about being savvy, but about building the right team spirit, getting sufficient people and momentum going, and getting content in place that is readable and useful.
21:02 < boud> but compliments are nice too :)
21:02 < fn> What mailing list? Indymedia?
21:02 < fn> But irrelevant ;-)
21:02 < boud> ctrl-f for "mailing list" on https://docs.indymedia.org/view/Local/ImcGoa
21:03 < boud> one person (but not all three!) should fill in newlist and submit (this is step 4)
21:03 < boud> and anabel accepted (i think) to be a co-admin on the mailing list - less chance of "the boys" dominating too much
21:03 < fn> Okay, got it.
21:03 < boud> we can all open the window to look at it, but only one should submit
21:03 < fn> Vidya, are you doing it? Go for it...
21:04 < fn> Vidya, confirm?
21:05 < boud> vidya : beep (i don't know if the irc beep function is case-sensitive or not...?)
21:06 -!- newnick [...] has joined #india
21:06 < newnick> vidya2
21:06 -!- newnick [...] has quit [Client Quit]
21:06 < boud> :(
21:07 < boud> methinks vidya has connection problems...
21:07 -!- vidya2 [...] has joined #india
21:07 < fn> Maybe...
21:07 < fn> Let's wait and see. Awhile.
21:07 -!- vidya2 [...] has quit [Client Quit]
21:07 -!- vidya2 [...] has joined #india
21:08 < boud> vidya2 hi
21:08 < fn> Hi Vidya2
21:08 < vidya2> lost my connection, had to use another nickname
21:08 < fn> Okay.
21:08 < vidya2> so what did I miss?
21:08 < fn> Please go and launch http://newlist.indymedia.org/
21:09 < fn> Anibel will be co-moderator.
21:09 < fn> Mailing list for Goa. You need to suggest it.
21:09 < boud> in fact, all three of you can be admins if you like
21:10 < fn> Okay by me. I am involved with other lists too. Does this run on Mailman?
21:10 < boud> yep
21:11 < boud> but i don't think it has konkani - though it certainly has portuguese
21:12 < vidya2> Filled in the form with all three as admins. Should I submit?
21:12 < boud> well, let's first check if any boxes could be controversial...
21:13 < boud> list name i suggest:  imc-goa ?
21:13 < boud> it's standard indy style
21:13 < boud> or...
21:14 < vidya2> imc-goa fine, okay to use nickname for Name?
21:14 < fn> That's fine.
21:14 < boud> if you want to show the desire to remain networked with other groups in india, you *could* choose something like imc-india-goa or imc-in-goa  - this is what imc-fr-nice  and imc-pl-torun do ...  but probably this is bad idea :P
21:14 < Anabel> sounds good
21:14 < boud> ok, ignore my suggestion :)
21:14 < boud> shorter is better
21:15 < boud> category  Local Asia
21:15 < boud> Local - in the sense of not for the whole planet
21:15 -!- vidya [...] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)]
21:16 < boud> the description should be just half-a-dozen words or so (it can always be changed later on)
21:16 < boud> it'll appear at the top in the blue band as on  http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/listinfo/imc-india
21:16 < boud> i think...
21:16 < vidya2> I have given all our email IDs as admins. Local Asia. List description: Mailing list for IMC Goa meta issues. Anything else: IMC Goa process initiated. See https://docs.indymedia.org/view/Local/ImcGoa
21:17 < boud> hey, i like the meta :)
21:17 < boud> definitely a good idea to discourage people sending news items etc
21:17 < vidya2> We don't want to discuss Medha Patkar as we've been doing on the India list. There are other groups for that :)
21:19 < boud> anyway, looks fine by me - fn, anabel, if it's fine by you, say yes, and vidya2 can submit
21:19 < Anabel> yes
21:21 < vidya2> submitting... hope I haven't goofed anywhere, so I'll recheck. fn?
21:23 < vidya2> Rechecked. fn??
21:24 < fn> Hello.
21:24 < fn> Where do I need to check?
21:25 < boud> 21:16 < vidya2> I have given all our email IDs as admins. Local Asia. List
21:25 < boud>                 description: Mailing list for IMC Goa meta issues. Anything
21:25 < boud>                 else: IMC Goa process initiated. See
21:25 < boud>                 https://docs.indymedia.org/view/Local/ImcGoa
21:25 < boud> that was a quotation/citation
21:25 < fn> Just go ahead Vidya. Bhiyun kiteak korta re baba?
21:25 < vidya2> Khare mhonta tu! Submit kele.
21:27 < vidya2> Sorry, boud, that was Konkani from fn and Konkani-Marathi pidgin from me. Anabel must have understood.
21:27 < boud> apse milkar bahut khushi hui
21:27 < vidya2> so what do we do now, tell you a polish joke :)
21:27 < boud> i've forgotten the rest ;)
21:28 < Anabel> :)
21:30 < fn> Call it a day?
21:31 < fn> Update the wiki with some concrete ideas?
21:31 < boud> well, maybe reload https://docs.indymedia.org/view/Local/ImcGoa
21:31 < boud> ;)
21:31 < boud> i put in links to listwork people so that if nothing happens within a few days, you know where to ask, complain
21:32 < vidya2> I think so, now we will locally meet, communicate with boud by email, and when needed fix up another chat?
21:32 < boud> i'll put the log of today's chat either on the imc-india list or on the twiki, removing IP numbers and antispamming any email addresses
21:32 < boud> sure, looks like a good plan to me :)
21:33 < boud> i'll probably extract some bits of today's discussion and update Local/ImcGoa also
21:34 < fn> Looking forward to that. As I missed part of the discussion...
21:35 < boud> and then one of you can announce the imc-goa list on imc-india once it's started
21:35 < boud> ok, i should let you guys/gal sleep :)
21:35 < vidya2> Great. well, then, au relogin, and towards a better world. Anabel, phone tomorrow around 11 a.m.? fn I bump into anyway all the time.
21:36 < Anabel> will call you tomorow vidya
21:36 < vidya2> ok, bye all.
21:37 < boud> au relogin :)
21:37 < Anabel> anyway, bye boud, fn and vidya....good night :)
21:37 < vidya2> and boud, thanks a ton!
21:37 < boud> my pleasure - we have a world to save :)
21:39 < fn> By goodnight. Have a lot of fun while doing so. Otherwise it becomes stressful > burnout!
21:40 < boud> true - g'night :)