17:05 < tammo> hmm..
17:05 < tammo> its 20:00 gmt... isn't it ?
17:05 < tammo> here its 21:08
17:07 < tammo> hep, jpl, mat, micah, mtoups, PseudoPunk?, A-Kaser, error, ksandre, Zapata, ZapAtWork?, 0z: wake up! ;-)
17:07 < A-Kaser> hum
17:07 < A-Kaser> 21:10 in Belgium
17:07 < tammo> hey ya, A-Kaser :)
17:08 < tammo> so it have to be 20:10 GMT ?!
17:08 < A-Kaser> yep
17:08 < tammo> hmm.. but where are the folks ?
17:14 < _0z_> I'm here
17:15 < tammo> hmm.. k, me too
17:15 < _0z_> <-- rifraf...
17:15 <@PseudoPunk> ok, have to go now.
17:16 <@PseudoPunk> i'm sorry i can't stay :-(
17:16 < _0z_> in case some1 didn't recognize me
17:16 < _0z_> PPunk, oh :(..
17:16 < _0z_> take care then
17:16 -!- ksandre [irc@localhost] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:16 < _0z_> so... how are we going to proceed with this meeting?
17:17 < _0z_> time is due, and time is also money, so we should start now or be silent forever, if we wish to have any progress at all :)
17:18 <@mtoups> hey, i'm just lurking, working on an imc-radio show right now :)
17:19 <@mtoups> hopefully jpl, micah, and pabs can be here though
17:19 < _0z_> I'm standing here to apply my ircd server 66.90.90.88.. It's been up to over 12 days now
17:19 < _0z_> mtoups, that would be optimal
17:21 < tammo> hmm..
17:22 <@micah> hmm, I miscalculated GMT
17:23 < _0z_> hmmh?
17:23 <@micah> but is the meeting not proceeding?
17:23 <@micah> apparantly jpl, pabs, zl2tod, zapata are not here?
17:23 < tammo> no
17:23 < tammo> thats the problem
17:24 <@micah> maybe they also miscalculated GMT/UTC? :)
17:24 < Zapata> hey
17:24 < Zapata> I'm here
17:24 < _0z_> helo!
17:24 < Zapata> but very busy actually...
17:24 < _0z_> :z
17:24 < tammo> hi Zapata :)
17:24 < _0z_> can we make any decisions?
17:25 < _0z_> like approving the ircd linkages
17:25 < Zapata> is there an agenda?
17:25 <@micah> I think agenda needs to be made
17:25 <@micah> so, some suggestions?
17:25 <@micah> . new irc links
17:26 <@micah> . spam bot/clone issues with new links
17:26 <@micah> . chat.indy connections
17:26 < _0z_> . ipv6 ?
17:27 <@micah> ok
17:27 <@micah> but I dont know if a meeting makes sense if it is just you and I? :p
17:28 < Zapata> who else was expected?
17:28 < tammo> i'm also here
17:28 < Zapata> billf? zltod?
17:29 < _0z_> let me suggest that we make agenda now, and 26.12.04 we have another meeting where we chose secretary and project manager
17:30 < tammo> hmm..
17:31 <@micah> Zapata: well jpl called the meeting, I would guess him... and pabs also
17:31 < _0z_> and then have meet at 30.03.2005 to discuss about the agenda we make now, to confirm it's definitions and then make a official deadline for last editions of agenda to be around July 2005
17:31 <@micah> heh
17:31 < Zapata> pabs said he couldn't make it
17:31 <@micah> 0z: I think just having an agenda will be easier
17:32 <@micah> i haven't been around much recently, so I dont know if there were other topics that needed to be discussed
17:32 < _0z_> yep
17:32 < _0z_> that is always a good move
17:33 <@micah> ok... well if we aren't going to have a proper meeting...
17:34 <@micah> I'm curious how irc links will work with the spam/clone bot protection
17:34 < tammo> i think an importaint top is to talk about the new server
17:34 < _0z_> micah, I have tcm and bopm
17:34 < Zapata> I share the curiosity...
17:34 < _0z_> I'm constantenously scanning my irc server for illegal activity
17:34 -!- ksandre [irc@localhost] has joined #ircd
17:34 < Zapata> 0z, we have our own bot
17:34 < Zapata> a "rapid response bot"...
17:34 < _0z_> sounds exciting
17:35 < Zapata> where at this time I quickly add protection from new bots we find
17:35 < _0z_> can I use it to replace tcm and/or bopm ?
17:35 < Zapata> well...
17:35 < Zapata> that is the idea
17:35 < _0z_> does it have all functions and better than tcm and bopm?
17:35 < Zapata> right now it's written in java, and I'm the only one working on it...
17:35 < _0z_> or will I be missing something
17:36 < Zapata> but it should be rewritten in python...
17:36 < Zapata> well...
17:36 < Zapata> it has the functions of tcm that irc.indymedia.org uses at this moment...
17:36 < Zapata> I started out coding some specific anti-bot code into tcm btw...
17:36 < _0z_> are you one of the tcm developers O_o
17:37 < Zapata> no
17:37 < Zapata> I disliked tcm so much that I started from scratch...
17:37 < _0z_> :)
17:37 < Zapata> it's hacked c code
17:37 < _0z_> good
17:37 < Zapata> hard to plug stuff into
17:38 < _0z_> can your system show me all (invisible) users online?
17:38 < _0z_> their nick/host/channels
17:38 < tammo> my problem is that i don't have any experience with hybrid-ircd... only with "ultimate" and "unreal".. ao i need a little bit support from you if i link the ircd
17:39 < _0z_> me neither
17:39 < _0z_> but so far hybrid seems to be nice
17:39 < tammo> yeah
17:40 < _0z_> I'm just not so used to this new configuration system
17:40 < _0z_> makes me think about that old saying about teaching old dogs
17:40 < tammo> me too.. i miss the C/N lines ;-)
17:40 < Zapata> 0z...
17:40 < Zapata> I'm afraid the "all users" stuff might require some hybrid hacking...
17:40 < _0z_> oh :(
17:41 < _0z_> then I need to use tcm :/
17:41 < _0z_> *sigh*
17:41 < _0z_> I don't like tcm too much either
17:41 <@micah> 0z: your server already has users?
17:41 < _0z_> micah, not at the moment
17:41 < _0z_> I'm running a new Webchat that's being advertized on Google AdWords?
17:41 < _0z_> ( www.CHATWIRED.com )
17:42 < _0z_> I'll be pointing it to my irc server at some point
17:42 < _0z_> currently it floods to EFnet
17:42 <@micah> Does indymedia want to link servers from other networks?
17:43 <@micah> that would bring in a lot of random people unrelated
17:43 < _0z_> it's not necessity to point it to my server
17:43 < _0z_> it was just an idea
17:44 < _0z_> you asked me if I have userbase, I had a suggestion to get some
17:44 <@micah> oh, I see
17:44 < _0z_> =)
17:44 < _0z_> not to worry ;)
17:44 < Zapata> so...
17:44 < Zapata> I'm afraid I need to leave here pretty soon now...
17:45 < Zapata> my suggestions:
17:45 < _0z_> oh :(
17:45 <@micah> I think the big problems with linking irc servers are the clone/bot/spam issue, the chat.indymedia.org interface, and how to keep configurations in sync
17:45 < _0z_> everyone's leaving :/
17:45 < _0z_> phone....
17:45 < Zapata> - start setting up 1 extra server, just to see how it goes
17:45 < Zapata> - I want to move the bot thing to python or so, so more people can maintain it
17:45 < Zapata> - the python bot would then also have to be able to deal with more than 1 server
17:46 < Zapata> - in the meantime, benbot can be cloned to have one instance per server (we did that before)
17:46 < tammo> i've only 1 ip, so i can't run 2 server on my dedicated
17:47 < _0z_> me too
17:47 < Zapata> well...
17:47 < 0z_> I'd like to know, if I have _any chances to get my server linked on IMC ?
17:48 < tammo> yeah, it would be fine to know :)
17:48 < tammo> also for me
17:48 < _0z_> now and not in October 2014 :p
17:48 < Zapata> ;-)
17:48 < Zapata> perhaps micah can say something on this?
17:48 < tammo> *smile*
17:48 <@micah> *shrug*
17:48 <@micah> I dont really understand the question
17:49 <@micah> it seems to me to be rhetorical
17:49 < _0z_> so you mean that all the servers which have now applied, are qualified?
17:49 < _0z_> and will be added to IMC network in this year?
17:49 < _0z_> including mine and Tammo's
17:50 < _0z_> can you agree with me on that?
17:50 <@micah> what are you guys' motivations for linking servers?
17:50 < _0z_> well, I was discussing about my motivations when I first came here
17:50 <@micah> there isn't so much of a qualification or application
17:50 < _0z_> that was ~month ago
17:51 <@micah> ok....
17:51 <@micah> so
17:51 <@micah> you are unhappy with the speed of the process
17:51 < tammo> i'm from the imc-germany collective and i want support the irc network :)
17:51 <@micah> may I offer a suggestion?
17:51 < _0z_> that I drop my application?
17:51 <@micah> we are all part of creating the process, if you want to speed it up, then you have the ability to speed it up
17:51 < _0z_> yeah
17:52 <@micah> I dont see why you would drop your application
17:52 <@micah> i can understand your frustration
17:52 <@micah> but the ircd working group is a group that is self-deterministic
17:52 < tammo> hmm.. i think its the long time that we have to wait... perhaps
17:53 <@micah> but why wait?
17:53 < _0z_> tammo, our good deeds will be rewarded after we have died
17:53 <@micah> there is not a application or approval qualification process that you have to wait for
17:54 <@micah> there is a working group, that you are free to join
17:54 < _0z_> so is it possible to link right now?
17:54 < _0z_> to have c/N lines ?
17:54 < tammo> micah: k, lets link ;)
17:54 <@micah> how will that help the workng group?
17:54 < _0z_> I thought the working group wanted servers
17:55 < _0z_> what else there is you need?
17:55 < tammo> there was some problems with che in the last time.. if we have more servers there will never be a offline time (i think so)
17:55 <@micah> for me... I want people to participate in the working group
17:55 < _0z_> how can I help the working group?
17:56 < _0z_> is there any ways to do something concrete for the working group?
17:56 <@micah> well, obviously you can see that the group needs some organization
17:56 <@micah> there are some problems that need to be worked out with linking
17:56 < _0z_> I already suggested that we get dedicated project manager and secretary
17:57 <@micah> i understood that as a joke
17:57 < tammo> me too
17:57 < _0z_> all my jokes have a seed of truth inside
17:57 < _0z_> :x
17:57 < tammo> sory, but i don't think that we realy need an secretary
17:57 < _0z_> perhaps I'm myself partially a joke
17:57 <@micah> heheh
17:58 < _0z_> tammo, let's have a good argue about that matter
17:58 < _0z_> ;d
17:58 <@micah> so it seems to me
17:58 < tammo> hmm..
17:58 < _0z_> everyone, let's smile together =)
17:58 <@micah> that there are some technical issues that need to be resolved before linking happens
17:59 <@micah> the people who know those things are pabs, zapata and jpl
17:59 < _0z_> exactly
17:59 <@micah> this meeting time did not work so well for them
17:59 <@micah> apparantly
17:59 < _0z_> :(
17:59 <@micah> so another meeting could be scheduled, or the issues could be worked out on the mailing list
17:59 < _0z_> let me also suggest that we set $10 usd fee for every meeting we have, that will be refunded if person actually comes to the meeting
17:59 <@micah> so, I would suggest not waiting around for that to happen
18:00 <@micah> 0z: heheh
18:00 <@micah> and instead, make it happen
18:00 < _0z_> okay
18:00 < _0z_> actually the meet should be arranged first with micah, pabs, zapata and jpl, agree that with personal emails, not in the ircd list
18:01 < _0z_> and then announce the date in ircd list
18:01 <@micah> it seems like there is not a whole lot that needs to be worked out
18:01 < Zapata> 0z...
18:01 < Zapata> can I ask...
18:01 < Zapata> what imc are you a member of?
18:02 < _0z_> I'm not a member of any imc, since finnish IMC is pretty dead
18:02 < _0z_> *sigh*
18:02 <@micah> that is too bad :(
18:02 < _0z_> yeah :(
18:02 < _0z_> if I had more time in my hands, I'd be glad to help building a new one
18:02 <@micah> but helping IMCs with network tech things is good
18:03 < _0z_> I think it's really a shame on finnish to not have working IMC :(
18:03 < _0z_> but I try not to fink about that too much :/
18:03 < Zapata> were you a member of the finish imc when it still was there?
18:03 <@micah> 0z: every IMC has problems, some manage to fix them, some have to go away to start again another time
18:03 < _0z_> nope, I heard about IMC when finnish IMC was already dead
18:04 < _0z_> (I guess they died early this year)
18:04 < Zapata> they died last year
18:04 < _0z_> ok
18:05 < Zapata> there are btw many more ways to help indymedia, 0z
18:05 < _0z_> what kind of?
18:05 < Zapata> I'm not at all sure that irc servers are something we really need...
18:05 < Zapata> well...
18:05 < _0z_> zapata :)
18:05 < Zapata> there are countless imcs that might have a use for techies / servers
18:05 < _0z_> I can see that too... no much users yet
18:05 <@micah> well, I do think we need to move IRC off of che, so it is not on the same machine as docs.indy
18:06 < Zapata> people that can do html, people that can code, people that can help with day to day things...
18:06 < _0z_> I fink I'll back off my application, and stand for Tammo's server instead
18:06 < _0z_> Tammo's a good guy :)
18:06 < Zapata> people that have serverspace for indymedia sites
18:07 < Zapata> anyway...
18:07 < Zapata> I really got to go now
18:07 < _0z_> :(
18:07 < _0z_> take care then
18:07 < tammo> Zapata: which imc is working with php/mysql ?
18:07 < Zapata> lots, tammo
18:07 < Zapata> all sf-active and dada sites are
18:07 < _0z_> tammo has coded good CMS
18:07 < Zapata> more than 50% of the imcs use php
18:07 < _0z_> I was browsing his sites earlier
18:08 < tammo> hmm.. k, perhaps i can support the new erfurt collective
18:08 < Zapata> if you're a php coder, you might consider joining the sf-active project or so
18:08 < Zapata> do you know occam, tammo?
18:08 < tammo> but i think that lexi has a problem with me
18:08 <@micah> i do think that either moving irc or the wiki from che is a necessary thing
18:08 < Zapata> ok, micah
18:09 < tammo> yeah, not in the real live but from the irc
18:09 <@micah> che needs to be fixed too :(
18:09 < Zapata> occam is an sf-active coder... perhaps you might talk to him about it or so...
18:09 < Zapata> micah...
18:09 < Zapata> but it should move to another indymedia server...
18:09 < Zapata> one that is adminned by some of the regular indy techies
18:10 < tammo> k, i wanna do it if hes online :)
18:10 <@micah> zapata: yeah... are these servers that tammo and 0z have not available for that
18:10 <@micah> ?
18:10 < tammo> i have to pay for the traffic on my server, so i can't support imc whith webspace or something like that
18:10 < _0z_> I withdraw my server application
18:11 < _0z_> and I hope you link tammo as soon as it is possible, he's the guy you need
18:11 <@micah> heheh
18:11 < tammo> ;)
18:11 < _0z_> ;)
18:11 <@micah> 0z: maybe you can help the irc working group get organized so we can link him faster?
18:11 < _0z_> sure
18:12 < _0z_> if there's anything I can do I do it gladly
18:12 < _0z_> I'll be watching the ircd mailing list
18:13 <@micah> 0z: one thing you can do is to not wait for someone to tell you what to do :)
18:13 < _0z_> *lol*
18:13 < _0z_> so true :)
18:13 <@micah> i am serious
18:13 < _0z_> yeah
18:13 < tammo> pabs and jpl have access to the ircd-shell where irc.hmpf.info is running rightnow
18:13 <@micah> indymedia only ghets things done because people are initiating things themselves
18:14 < _0z_> let me suggest that you name me as ircd project manager then, so that something happens :p
18:14 < tammo> heheh
18:14 < _0z_> I can decide what's good for others
18:14 < _0z_> I'm good at that :p
18:14 <@micah> 0z: propose it to the list, i think that having someone who can help coordinate is good...
18:14 <@micah> which I think is different than deciding what is good for others
18:15 < _0z_> yeah :D
18:15 < _0z_> that was the joke part :)
18:15 <@micah> but helping people who have decided together whaat is good for the group to accomplish those things
18:15 <@micah> ah, ok
18:15 <@micah> i'm tired so I am not getting jokes easy :)_
18:16 <@micah> i do think that coordination would help a lot
18:16 < _0z_> =)
18:16 < _0z_> ok, so imc needs... IRC project coordinator?
18:17 < _0z_> I'll be fading away too
18:17 < _0z_> but I'll ask about the coordinating issue in the list
18:18 <@micah> sounds good
18:18 <@micah> tal to you later
18:20 < tammo> so, the meeting is over now ?!
18:25 < _0z_> I sent the message to the list... I hope someone can give me their first impressions of it ... here or /msg me :p
-- MatRiseup - 15 Nov 2004
-- TammO - 15 Nov 2004