Session Start: Sun Jan 18 16:24:01 2004
Session Ident: #meeting
[16:24] * Now talking in #meeting
[16:24] * Topic is 'meeting at 20:00 utc -- agenda: http://docs.indymedia.org/view
/Devel/NewTechOrientation2004^O'
[16:24] * Set by pietro_!irc@localhost on Sun Jan 18 16:20:56
[16:24] <drewCph> hello all, whenever people turn up =)
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[16:25] <jb> rhatto: tudo bom?
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[16:34] <rhatto> como vai jb?
[16:35] <jb> tranki
[16:35] <jb> tu?
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[16:37] <rhatto> bem, hoje tem cerveja!
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[16:37] <jb> jeje
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[16:58] <mtoups> wow, people
[16:58] <pietro_> 2 minutes
[16:58] <micah> yeah, good number
[16:59] <micah> we should pick someone to moderate/take minutes
[16:59] <pietro_> and someones to log
[17:00] <luis> i can log
[17:00] <mtoups> since we have such a large potential agenda, it would be good to hear what folks would like to talk about or hear about
[17:00] <PseudoPunk> do we set a time limit ? like 2 hours or so ?
[17:00] <jb> agree
[17:01] * micah twinkles for no more than 2 hours
[17:01] * occam agrees
[17:01] <mtoups> yes, so we need to figure out how much time to devote to each subject since we could be here forever otherwise
[17:01] <toya> http://www.midiaindependente.
[17:01] <toya>                        org/en/blue/static/support.shtml
[17:01] <toya> [TE] (12:13PM) @toya (+iw) #meeting (+np)                   argh
[17:01] <PseudoPunk> ??
[17:01] <toya> desculpa
[17:01] <toya> sorry
[17:02] <micah> lets do introductions (people who are active in tech say what they do and people who are wanting to help say what they want to do)
[17:03] <mtoups> are people interested in splitting into smaller groups at some point to work on specific projects? (ie, #meeting-listwork, #meeting-sysadmin , #meeting-coders , etc) ?
[17:03] <mtoups> yeah maybe include this into in introductions :)
[17:03] <mtoups> ie:
[17:04] <mtoups> Hi, I'm Matt, I'm from IMC Pittsburgh and do sysadmin, listwork, and sf-active stuff for global.  I'd be interested in working with new folks who want to get involved in these things. <done>
[17:04] <jb> mtoups: not too sure i want to follow parallel discussions during 2 hours..
[17:04] <micah> mtoups: are we doing introductions then?
[17:04] * micah votes for mtoups to facilitate
[17:04] <mtoups> micah: you said it :)
[17:05] <drewCph_> i'm andrew from copenhagen, i would like to help with coding (perl, c, c++) or sysadm-type stuff.
[17:05] <box> hi i'm matt in cincinnati ohio. I've so far been doing the bulk of the webpage technical stuff. We're setting up a dadaimc based page you can checkout at http://cincyimc2.bokz.net if you'd like
[17:05] <PseudoPunk> I'm Bart from Imc-Wvl, SF-Active coder, also doing docs.indy, contactdb & ivdn
[17:05] <mtoups> maybe we could have more than one facilitator?  coordinate in #meeting-facil ?
[17:05] <micah> mtoups: lets not fragment too much before we need to
[17:06] * occam imc-germany, sf-active coders, admin for stray, staughton, deskaheh etc - ivdn, and more :)
[17:06] <mtoups> micah: fair enough, well i'm gonna join that channel and if people have thoughts on facilitation, go there so we can stop making noise here :)
[17:06] <pietro_> hello, i'm pietro form brasil. i do listwork, help sysadmin a mir server thats lives in brasil
[17:06] <micah> I'm micah, from the US, I do sysadmin stuff, set up servers, manage IRC, lists, dns
[17:06] <matze> i'm matze from imc barcelona, helping out with sysadmin in global
[17:06] <jb> jb, imc-bcn, doing listwork mainly, currently preoccuped by how we ignore help offers.
[17:07] <drewCph_> (oh yeah - since there isn't an IMC in denmark - i should mention I'd like to help out wherever, geographically speaking)
[17:07] <earthman> earthman, imc-ithaca and others, interested in linux sysadmin <end>
[17:08] <rhatto> i'm rhatto from brasil, currently working with audio streaming (we are seting up a server), admin daileon mir server (brasil, india, chilesur) and writing tutorial stuff (brasil docs)<end>
[17:08] <luis> luis, imc brasil, helping on liswork and trying to help admin the mir server we have here (daileon)
[17:08] <Zapata> I'm Max from the netherlands... I code for mir... <end>
[17:08] <mtoups> mat? r7? chrisc?
[17:08] <mtoups> ekes? geneX? chris_msp?
[17:09] <init> Init, Berlin, Germany, imc-de, mir-templates, mir-admin... would like to add one topic to the agenda in wiki but it's locked by  MicahA <end>
[17:09] <toya> I'am toya imc-br, help with daileon in brasil, documentation in br and help on chilsur imc website, and would like to help with listwork and global templates
[17:09] <micah> init: it isn't anymore :)
[17:09] <geneX> geneX, imc nice and radio-tzara, spip-indy techie, gnu... and?
[17:10] <geneX> ..[end]
[17:11] <mtoups> mat and chris_msp are idle
[17:11] <patrick> hey, patrick from imc-nyc, html, design, facilitation, hardware/bandwidth acquisition, help out on various tasks
[17:12] <intrigeri> intrigeri, imc-nantes, various squatted hacklabs, etc.
[17:12] <chris_msp> sorry
[17:12] <chris_msp> I have to leave - friends are over to watch football
[17:12] <micah> in the interests of keeping the pace, those who haven't intro'd themselves should pipe up when they come back from idle and we can continue
[17:12] <chris_msp> I will read the logs - I hope to help out soon
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[17:12] <patrick> facilitation: I can help keep track of questions
[17:14] <pietro_> so, lets talk about each working group?
[17:14] <mtoups> any volunteers to present on a working group?
[17:14] <pietro_> i can introduce listwork
[17:14] <mtoups> pietro_: great :)  go for it, pietro_ has the floor
[17:15] * mtoups sets mode: +v pietro_
[17:15] <pietro_> listwork, as the name says, is the wg that takes care of our email/mailin lists server
[17:15] <pietro_> sarai.indymedia.org
[17:15] <pietro_> some of our tasks are:
[17:15] <pietro_> answer emails sent to listwork@lists.indy
[17:15] * justin has joined #meeting
[17:16] * occam sets mode: +o justin
[17:16] <pietro_> create, delete and make sure lists are ok
[17:16] <pietro_> help lists admion and users
[17:16] <pietro_> fight spam
[17:16] <pietro_> sysadmin the server
[17:16] <pietro_> patch mailman so some fucntions we use, like categories
[17:16] <pietro_> work
[17:16] * mtoups raises (btw, our signal for wanting to be the next person to speak)
[17:17] <pietro_> i think thats pretty much what we do :)
[17:17] <pietro_> <end>
[17:17] * mtoups sets mode: -v pietro_
[17:17] * mtoups sets mode: +v mtoups
[17:17] * Retrieving #meeting modes...
[17:18] <mtoups> (btw, using <end> or <done> is preferred when finishing for those not used to this system)
[17:18] <mtoups> i also work on listwork/sysadmin , and we're overdue for some updates to mailman that could really use help
[17:19] <mtoups> getting the new version of mailmain up will happen soon, but this is a big undertaking because it is such critical infrastructure
[17:19] <mtoups> and we also need help improving the archives and keeping spamassassin up to date
[17:19] <mtoups> so yeah, follow up with us, this is one of the most important items in imc-tech! <done>
[17:19] * mtoups sets mode: -v mtoups
[17:20] <mtoups> justin: want to give an intro and what your interests/roles are?
[17:20] * micah raises hand 
[17:20] <justin> sure.  i don't have a lot of time to offer, but i have bandwidth.
[17:20] * mtoups sets mode: +v micah
[17:20] * PseudoPunk can introduce ivdn if occam doesn't do it.
[17:21] <micah> A couple other quick intros of working groups: 
[17:21] * occam is on contact with justin for a www.indy mirror
[17:21] <occam> PseudoPunk: go for it
[17:21] <micah> the dns working group is mostly just a mailing list that takes DNS change/addition requests and does them
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[17:21] * occam sets mode: +o elisa_sp
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[17:21] <micah> we've been wanting someone to come along and setup/manage a DNS server so we don't continue to depend on freespeech tv's DNS server
[17:22] <micah> the ircd working group is a group of people who manage IRC services, not only keep the IRC server running, but also connect nodes
[17:22] <micah> deal with problems (denial of service attacks, spam), and help users with questions. we hang out in #ircd
[17:22] <micah> the sysadmin working group works on various system administration tasks on the various globally shared servers
[17:23] <box> i setup a dns server for myself a while back... had a little help so I'm a little fuzzy on some of the setup, but i admin it all the time, adding new entries and stuff, so maybe i could help there if nothing else
[17:23] <micah> we always need more people
[17:23] <micah> also there is this working group "tech-coord" that is sort of responsible for the docs.indymedia.org wiki
[17:23] <micah> and that badly needs to be upgraded/managed by someone
[17:23] * chrisc nodes
[17:23] <micah> <end>
[17:23] * chrisc nods even
[17:24] <mtoups> PseudoPunk: want to mention what people can do with docs.indy and/or ivdn?
[17:24] * mtoups sets mode: -v micah
[17:25] <PseudoPunk> docs.indy is a twiki that is used for all kinds of indymedia documentation. (local/global/tech/non-tech)
[17:25] * mtoups sets mode: +v PseudoPunk
[17:25] <PseudoPunk> it has been unmaintained for over a year
[17:25] <PseudoPunk> i started working on it this week.
[17:25] <PseudoPunk> if someone is better in it then me, take it over :-)
[17:25] * earthman twinkles
[17:26] <PseudoPunk> Ivdn is a new project. we'll try to setup a box for high-quality video publishing. The box will push content to archive.org & p2p networks.
[17:26] <micah> earthman: twinkling because you're interested in doing that?
[17:26] <PseudoPunk> we might have a server in buffalo for that.
[17:26] <earthman> micah: i've been twiki-immersed here lately, i could assist with it, sure
[17:26] <PseudoPunk> imc-commwork isn't a tech group but it works on the contactdbase (contact.indymedia.org). that one needs to be recoded
[17:26] <earthman> PseudoPunk: debian would be ideal, if it's one of the new ones
[17:26] <PseudoPunk>  /end
[17:27] * micah raises hand 
[17:27] <PseudoPunk> go for it micah
[17:27] * mtoups sets mode: +v micah
[17:27] * mtoups sets mode: -v PseudoPunk
[17:27] * occam raises
[17:27] * mtoups queue: micah, occam
[17:28] <micah> in response to box about dns... managing dns requests is not an area that is short of people, although if you'd like to participate in that group I wont discourage you... dns mostly needs its own server setup
[17:28] <micah> also
[17:28] <micah> I just wanted to point out this page:
[17:28] <micah> http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Devel/GlobaltechVolunteerNeeds
[17:28] * pietro_ raises
[17:28] <box> are the resources available to run the server?
[17:28] <micah> which has some information about the different areas that I thought need work
[17:28] <box> do i need ot raise to respond?
[17:28] * occam rm me from queue
[17:29] <micah> can someone say something about templating/coding?)
[17:29] * occam can about templating
[17:29] <pietro_> Zapata: can yopu talk about mir?
[17:29] * mtoups queue: micah, pietro (raising helps, pls indicate if you have a direct reply)
[17:29] <micah> box: there might be, lets talk in a bit about that?
[17:29] <micah> <end>
[17:29] * drewCph_ could set up and maintain a dns box, particularly if the hw and bandwidth was elsewhere
[17:29] * box nods
[17:29] <mtoups> occam, templating? 
[17:29] * micah points drewCph_ and box toward each other :)
[17:30] * mtoups sets mode: +v occam
[17:30] * mtoups sets mode: -v micah
[17:31] <occam> well.. Mir is using a template system called Freemarker - its eays to use for ppl who know html
[17:31] * micah raises to briefly say something about available bandwidth for mirroring
[17:32] <occam> for the global site we need some ppl wich can work on a layout and the templates - there are many examples around wich we can be used a basis
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[17:32] <occam> http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Global/GlobalWebsite
[17:33] <occam> is the main info page for the global site
[17:34] <jb> faq 
[17:34] <mtoups> occam: done?
[17:34] <jb> sorry.
[17:34] <occam> there is also a staging site needed where we can test such a layout and work on it.. Zapata has a half one..
[17:34] <occam> ..on his local box
[17:35] <occam> the templates and most of the site confis is in CVS on kropotkin...
[17:35] <occam> <done>
[17:35] <mtoups> micah, go ahead
[17:35] * mtoups sets mode: +v micah
[17:35] * mtoups sets mode: -v occam
[17:35] * chrisc has just caught up on meeting logs, intro: i'm chris from uk imc, i haven't don't much for the last month :-(
[17:35] <micah> Oh yes, I wanted to say something about those who are offering bandiwdth/mirroring
[17:36] <micah> one of our code-bases, Mir, allows us to distribute our static content to mirrors and then serve them from there
[17:36] <micah> the global www.indymedia.org site is mir, and there are maybe ~10 or so others that are also mir(zapata?)
[17:36] <micah> it is pretty simple to get your server/bandwidth in the loop for helping alleviate this
[17:36] * bunny has joined #meeting
[17:37] * occam sets mode: +oo bugg bunny
[17:37] <micah> I wrote up a document, with some help from occam and earthman yesterday about how to do this for global www.indymedia.org
[17:37] <micah> so if you are interested in offering bandwidth to help mirror things, you can follow these steps for www.indy: http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Global/GlobalWebsitemirroring
[17:37] * mtoups notes that sf-active and dada can both host rich media on other servers also, which would be useful for extra servers also (though not quite as nice as with mir)
[17:38] <micah> We should create a document for the other mir instances for how it is done (the www.indy one is a little different from a normal one), and what Mir sites are out there needing mirrors
[17:38] <micah> <end>
[17:38] * Johnc has joined #meeting
[17:38] <mtoups> pietro_, did you have something?
[17:38] <pietro_> i was going to say a few things about mir
[17:39] * occam sets mode: +o Johnc
[17:39] * mtoups sets mode: -v micah
[17:39] * matze wonders if mysql replication would allow us to have sf-active and dada (backup-)mirrors
[17:39] * drewCph_ wonders how much bandwidth is required before its considered useful
[17:39] * mtoups sets mode: +v pietro_
[17:39] <Johnc> howdy all! sorry Im late
[17:39] <pietro_> as micah and occam said
[17:39] <pietro_> mir uses a template engine that make both changind the lay out if a site
[17:40] <pietro_> and mirroring easy
[17:40] <mtoups> drewCph_: good question, it can vary, depending on whether we're talking about static html or media or both, and how big the site is.  some imc's like portland have been able to do a lot with dsl lines even.
[17:40] * Johnc Johnc is from Buffalo, NY home of new Indy server DISSENT and old server SODOR...
[17:40] <pietro_> i just wanted to say that mir needs java coders :)
[17:41] <pietro_> <end>
[17:41] * box wonders if mir has content ratings
[17:41] * earthman raises
[17:41] <mtoups> earthman: go
[17:41] * mtoups sets mode: +v earthman
[17:41] * mtoups sets mode: -v pietro_
[17:41] <micah> can someone talk about how to get involved in coding on mir?
[17:41] <earthman> not really intro a working group, but noting an item on the agenda that hasn't been addressed that i've noticed at least
[17:41] <earthman>                o keyserver
[17:41] <pietro_> micah: i think i can :)
[17:42] <earthman> i'm interested, ,and i've heard that there is basically *no one* working on that now? :*(  i *use* the thing, but i'm no python coder
[17:42] * micah raises hand in response to earthman
[17:42] <mtoups> micah, go
[17:42] * mtoups sets mode: +v micah
[17:42] <micah> just wanted to note that on http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Devel/GlobaltechVolunteerNeeds the keyserver is listed
[17:42] * Zapata can talk a abit about mir when that is desired
[17:42] <earthman> i'd be willing to do whatever i can, but i think tht's not the majority of it, if it's coded in python <end>
[17:42] <micah> because as far as anyone can tell, it is not being maintained, but it is being used
[17:43] <PseudoPunk> keyserver is still on ahimsa1 iirc
[17:43] <micah> i would be thrilled if earthman took that on, I dont think it requires python coding really
[17:43] <mtoups> i'd be willing to help restart the keyserver working group also
[17:43] <micah> <end> 
[17:43] * occam raises for current global templates
[17:43] <mtoups> should we discuss further in #keyserver afterwards?
[17:43] <mtoups> occam reply, then zapata
[17:43] * earthman twikles, glad to hear the positive <end> (yes to #keyserver)
[17:43] * mtoups sets mode: +v occam
[17:43] * mtoups sets mode: -vv earthman micah
[17:43] <pietro_> mtoups: i think so and also in the keyserver mailing list
[17:43] * Zapata kind of recalls another imc ithacan being the former person behind the keyserver ;-)
[17:44] * Johnc thinks that especially here there should be no guilt by association
[17:45] <occam> the current templates are a short "hack" from me, its only the startpage and the article page - patrick knows how to work on the templates and i can always introduce someone how it all work together .. and..
[17:45] * Johnc thinks everyone should have a chance to screw up on their own
[17:45] <occam> http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Sysadmin/EdnaDev
[17:45] * danfeder has quit IRC (Quit: bye^O)
[17:45] <occam> there are also some infos
[17:45] <occam> <done>
[17:45] <mtoups> ok, zapata?
[17:45] * mtoups sets mode: +v Zapata
[17:45] * mtoups sets mode: -v occam
[17:45] <Zapata> ok
[17:45] <Zapata> about mir...
[17:45] <Zapata> we use an irc channel... #mir
[17:46] <Zapata> a number of mailinglists...
[17:46] <Zapata> mir-coders, mir-admins, mir-doc
[17:46] <Zapata> there's a whole bunch of stuff that can be done for mir...
[17:46] <Zapata> and javacoding is but a small portion of that...
[17:46] <Zapata> imc's using mir need support for instance...
[17:47] <Zapata> we need documentation... 
[17:47] <Zapata> we need people testing, people organizing stuff...
[17:47] <Zapata> generally, people interested in helping out should contact me sometime in #mir...
[17:47] <Zapata> I'm there usally from 19:00 utc till 23:00
[17:47] <Zapata> <end>
[17:48] * occam notes that at the moment all this is done by Zap - so we realy need more Mir ppl!
[17:48] <mtoups> Zapata: would email work also?  that way perhaps we can put an email in the logs/minutes for people not on irc...
[17:48] * micah twinkles
[17:48] * PseudoPunk notes that above goes for about every codebase
[17:48] * patrick twinkles for new mir ppl
[17:48] <Zapata> people can email me too at zapata at xs4all.nl
[17:48] * travis has joined #meeting
[17:48] * occam sets mode: +o travis
[17:48] <Zapata> writing something to the mailinglist about volunteering generally doesn't provide the response desired...
[17:49] <Zapata> <end2>
[17:49] <mtoups> ok, so we've got chances for people to follow up in #mir, #keyservers
[17:49] * drewCph_ mentions #dns as a venue for DNS discussions, for the benefit of box and micah
[17:49] <micah> good idea
[17:50] <mtoups> what else do people have on their minds?
[17:50] <bunny> as I arrived late I will take opportunity to briefly intro myself I live in Edinburgh, http://j12.org/sb/ , am in Indymedia Scotland http://imcscotland.org ,  which mainly function as part of IMCUK, I have moved up Mir understanding curve with use on IMCUK, also observe on dadaIMC user list.
[17:51] <micah> I just wanted to say that we really need templating for www.indymedia.org, we always need listwork help, and we need some sysadmins to help strengthen our redundancy/backups... and wow a volunteer coordinator would be cool too :)
[17:51] * Johnc raises hand next please
[17:52] <mtoups> Johnc: go ahead
[17:52] * mtoups sets mode: +v Johnc
[17:52] <Johnc> I also was late, apologies, I m here on behalf of Buffalo
[17:52] <Johnc> we have been maintiatining a server SODOR for a few years and been kinda quiiet,
[17:53] <Johnc> we jumped in during the crisis with a new box, Dissent  adn are going to be putting in
[17:53] <Johnc> a larger server in next few weeks on our t1 here. porividing mail/lists and support to the imc's were hosting
[17:53] <Johnc> and thanks to the y crew who jumped in to get it going.
[17:54] <Johnc> currently we're supporting sfactive, old active and DADA, and we're not sure about
[17:54] <Johnc> the mir mirrors that started to be put up on Dissent (ecuador and Bolivia methinks)
[17:54] <Johnc> endd
[17:55] <mtoups> Johnc: to reply, ecuador and bolivia are not pointing at dissent yet, so we should follow up on this later
[17:55] * Johnc nods
[17:55] <mtoups> Johnc: so what could new volunteers do to get involved in what you guys are up to?
[17:56] <Johnc> right now we're jsut locking down the "openness" that existed during the crisis
[17:56] <mtoups> cool
[17:56] <Johnc> and as we gt this newer server online in next few weeks there will be much more we can offer in terms of
[17:57] <Johnc> hardware. even with some 8 or 9 sites coming from here, our BW still spends most of its time being bored
[17:57] <Johnc> as we have 5 ips, SODOR will come down next week for lobotomy and rebuild and then we ahd some
[17:58] <Johnc> preliminary discussions regarding video portal (help me out here PSeudo and OCC0 <end2>
[17:59] <mtoups> ok so people can visit #Dissent to get invovled then?
[17:59] <Johnc> ...yes we setup the Dissent-sys admin list (off site of course) and plan on a fresh Mailman install with new server..
[18:00] <Johnc> <end>
[18:00] <PseudoPunk> mtoups: yes
[18:00] <bunny> raises hand: ibiblio.org offer brief report
[18:00] <mtoups> bunny: go ahead :)
[18:00] * mtoups sets mode: +v bunny
[18:00] * mtoups sets mode: -v Johnc
[18:00] <bunny> ibiblio.org have offered to help imc in big way as brokered by Harry
[18:00] <bunny> but this is going vwery slow
[18:00] <bunny> for resons best put in an email
[18:00] <matze> drewCph_: yes, though this group is really small
[18:00] <matze> oops
[18:01] * travis_ has joined #meeting
[18:01] * occam sets mode: +o travis_
[18:01] * travis has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving^O)
[18:01] * intrigeri raises
[18:01] * chrisc wonders if bunny wants to explain isue with dada hosting at ibiblio and why static mir mirrors might be best there...
[18:02] <bunny> yes chrisc
[18:02] <bunny> basically we use user space with tech support form ibiblio staff
[18:02] <bunny> spud has modified dada to help with this
[18:03] <bunny> but the ibiblio set up of
[18:03] <bunny> shared servers is not working well with it
[18:03] <bunny> we put fix in to help with cookie lose but this caused more problems
[18:04] <bunny> anyway static miorroring would be good
[18:04] <bunny> but Harry who has (and I have been happy to let have) 'ownership' of the interaction with ibiblio
[18:04] <bunny> wants to get what we are working on first sorted
[18:05] <bunny> he would liek to sort MIR production on there
[18:05] <bunny> if there is anyone who would like to get involved with using ibiblio.org then they can
[18:05] <bunny> things could move forward faster if someoen with more time toook 'ownership' 
[18:06] <bunny> basically I am happy to expain more if someone asks me later
[18:06] <mtoups> bunny, i would be willing to help get static content on ibibilio, good to know
[18:06] * chrisc thinks that static content generated from Mir would be great on ibiblio.org but would the Java application be best on an Indy server?
[18:07] <bunny> basically then we should have meeting one this with Harry present
[18:07] <bunny> I will arrrange
[18:07] <mtoups> bunny: great, email the lists and keep us in the loop
[18:07] <bunny> Harry has said to me just go for whatever I want
[18:07] <bunny> but I have been reluctant
[18:07] * idefix has joined #meeting
[18:08] * occam sets mode: +o idefix
[18:08] <micah> (bunny <end>?)
[18:08] <bunny> and allways like to check with him as he has experinace of dealing with ibibilo
[18:08] <bunny> anyway till then 
[18:08] <bunny> end
[18:08] <micah> ok, lets open it up for any questions about what has been said, things that haven't been said, questions about how things are setup, etc.?
[18:08] * init raises to say something about a new CVS-Server
[18:09] <micah> init: go for it 
[18:09] <init> I added http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Devel/GforgeCVSProjectServer to todays agenda, the server will have a domain-name (codecoop) within a week, I hope, so we can start using it. Any questions about that new machine? It is already online as http://orion.so36.net.
[18:09] <chrisc> init: can we have subversion on it in addition to cvs? 
[18:10] <init> idfix who just entered did the setup, so he can answer questions...
[18:10] <chrisc> subversion is nice because you don't need to give out shell accounts
[18:10] * john has joined #meeting
[18:10] <init> init <end>
[18:10] * occam sets mode: +o john
[18:10] * Zapata would favor subversion (or anything other than cvs) very much
[18:10] * john asks who is facilitating
[18:10] <occam> mtoups is facilitating
[18:10] * justin wonders if there are any php development needs, just curious.
[18:11] * occam raises for PHP :)
[18:11] * chrisc is worries that shell accounst might have been the cause of the rooted boxes...
[18:11] * rhatto is going, beer is calling, will read the log an try to help
[18:11] <idefix> is subversion stable?
[18:11] * rhatto has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving^O)
[18:11] <chrisc> they are about to bgo to beta in the next few weeks
[18:11] <chrisc> it is in RH, SuSE, Debian and Fedora already...
[18:12] <chrisc> so i think it is fine for real use :-)
[18:12] <idefix> ok i will look if i can integrate it
[18:12] <chrisc> cheers :-)
[18:12] <idefix> but for the starting i would propose to use cvs
[18:12] <chrisc> if you need help wit it i have some experience with it
[18:13] <matze> subversion is under subversion version control, afaik it's pretty stable
[18:13] <chrisc> i agree, but for templates subversion might be best, it has easy to use windoze clients and we don't want to give shell accounts to people just doing html and css.... 
[18:13] * intrigeri raises (as a new volunteer lost in imc-tech-galaxy) and wonders if this meeting is still facilitated...
[18:13] <mtoups> right, heh, supposedly micah and i
[18:14] <mtoups> occam, you have something to say about php?
[18:14] <idefix> on the system i installed on orion the cvs users only can login to use cvs and nothing more
[18:14] <occam> php based code projects we have yeah...
[18:15] <justin> if it's outside the realm of discussion here, i can inquire later/elsewhere
[18:15] <justin> about php projects, i mean
[18:16] <occam> well, i guess some more notes for codecoop?
[18:16] <chrisc> justin: several of the IMC CMSs are written in PHP
[18:17] <justin> k, are they all moving towards mir?
[18:17] <chrisc> no i don't think so
[18:17] <PseudoPunk> no
[18:18] <chrisc> dada, sf-active and Oscailt are all php
[18:18] <occam> http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Devel/WebHome  has a list of the code bases we have... Sf-Active, DadaIMC, Oscalti and other are PHP based.. also Input (a dispatch system) and the new IVDN Project are party PHP based..
[18:18] <occam> partly
[18:18] <occam> sf-active is a bigger php project
[18:19] <micah> all can use php coders
[18:19] <justin> thanks for the link
[18:19] <PseudoPunk> contactdbase is php too
[18:20] <micah> new people, are you confused about something, have questions about how things are setup? ask!
[18:20] <intrigeri> I was waiting for the end of the working groups introduction, in order to understand better where new volunteers are needed...
[18:20] <intrigeri> I am mainly interested in working on the wiki and keyserver stuff
[18:20] <intrigeri> but I could put my energy elsewhere, if it is more useful elsewhere
[18:20] <occam> where are going to add some more code and function soon for a final 1.0.. at the moment the latest is the 0.9.2 as stable - we just had a good year where we mostly clean up old buggy code and made something like a real class structure etc...
[18:20] <intrigeri> My question is simple: where would it be the more useful?
[18:21] * toya raises
[18:21] <micah> we should mention that many of us hang out in #tech, so if you are working on something and need help, or access or just wanna chat come on by
[18:21] <PseudoPunk> intrigeri: twiki sysadstuff or just working on the wiki ?
[18:21] <intrigeri> PseudoPunk: sysadmin
[18:21] * Johnc thinks some dont hang out-they live there!
[18:21] * PseudoPunk lives there
[18:21] <earthman> intrigeri: lists keyserver@lists.indyindy and tech-coord@lists.indy :) <end>
[18:22] * occam lives someone else :)
[18:22] <PseudoPunk> i think once docs;indy is upgraded most work is on the wiki, keeping it up to date, cleaning up stuff and so ?
[18:22] <micah> intrigeri: I think the twiki needs help, badly needs new version and maintenance. keyserver could use some python skills
[18:22] <chrisc> the twiki install is one version behind the lastest stable version
[18:23] <toya> for listwork...i am on the email list..is there anything else i should do to get more info of where to help...talk with someone...like for the global templates i will talk with occam later..maybe i should talk  with pietro or luis bout listwork?
[18:23] <mtoups> listwork: let's join #listwork and set a time to do a big listwork/mailman party
[18:23] <mtoups> that way we can get work done on mailman and show people the ropes
[18:23] <luis> yeah, i can help you out
[18:23] * patrick raises
[18:23] <micah> toya: yes, pietro, luis, gaba, mtoups, me, jb, patrick all can help get you working on listwork
[18:24] <mtoups> patrick, what up?
[18:24] * mtoups sets mode: +v patrick
[18:24] <patrick> toya and other interested party'ers: there is an tracking system for
[18:24] <patrick> listwork requests, rt
[18:24] <mtoups> oh yes
[18:24] <patrick> we can get details to folks
[18:24] <mtoups> everyone should look at rt
[18:24] * occam notes that also some freaky ppl have a IRC life in #sfkids :-)
[18:24] * john has to go move an anarchist bookstore....i'll read the logs, see you all in #tech and hopefully see some new faces/nicks in #globaltemplates
[18:24] <toya> luis  showed me that today
[18:24] * patrick excuses the interuptions
[18:24] <mtoups> occam: you can get people set up with rt accounts, yes?
[18:24] <patrick> .../end
[18:24] <occam> yeap
[18:24] <patrick> :]
[18:24] <occam> ahhh
[18:24] <intrigeri> earthman, PseudoPunk : as I don't know python, I guess I'm going to help you with the twiki sysadm/cleaning/etc. shall we join #twiki later ?
[18:25] <occam> our tools.. will someone say something about our tools?
[18:25] <PseudoPunk> intrigeri: ok to pe
[18:25] <PseudoPunk> i'll be there tomorrow
[18:25] * chrisc the twiki codes base needs help with UTF-8 -- many IMCs can't use it at the moment because of the lack of UTF-8 support :-(
[18:26] * john has quit IRC (Quit: Client exiting^O) 
[18:26] <micah> about our tools:
[18:26] <PseudoPunk> chrisc: i don't know how much better utf8 support is in the newer version
[18:26] <micah> we've mentioned many of them here already
[18:26] * earthman raises (response to chrisc)
[18:26] <micah> we use lots of mailing lists... the master list of lists is at http://lists.indymedia.org
[18:27] <micah> the irc server, which you are on now... you can find people in #tech
[18:27] * pietro_ gotta go now - i'll read the logs and will keep helping :)
[18:27] * pietro_ has quit IRC (Quit: Client exiting^O)
[18:27] <chrisc> PseudoPunk: not much better, proper UTF-8 support is still to be implemented in the dev version AFAIK
[18:27] <micah> the RT (request tracker) instance is what we use to keep track of requests/todos etc.
[18:27] <micah> its at rt.indymedia.org (occam can set you up with an account)
[18:27] <micah> the wiki is at docs.indymedia.org
[18:28] <micah> the tech specific part of the wiki is at:
[18:28] <micah> http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Devel/ImcTech
[18:28] * Naton has joined #meeting
[18:28] * occam sets mode: +o Naton
[18:28] <Naton> sorry..
[18:28] <micah> feel free to add things/improve things where you see it could use help
[18:29] <micah> umm, what else? we have a keyserver, keys.indymedia.org
[18:29] * Naton was online all the time, just forgot the... well, time.
[18:29] * occam notes that there are many many infos on the Wiki - just browse a bit around, also on the local IMC's sites.. you will find some stuff
[18:29] <micah> and the keys to the tech speed boat are on the hook over there, you can take it out anytime you want
[18:30] <micah> you can leave people messages on irc through memoserv (/msg memoserv help), and register your nickname via nickserv (/msg nickserv help)
[18:30] <micah> also, there is a brief section in the Tech wiki about how to get involved:
[18:30] <micah> http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Devel/ImcTech#Getting_involved
[18:31] <micah> ah yes... kropotkin
[18:31] <occam> you can get a @indymedia.org email forward if you wanne :)
[18:31] <micah> kropotkin is our "development server"
[18:31] * Johnc raises hand
[18:31] * drewCph_ is now known as drewCph
[18:31] <micah> its for testing out things before you do them live
[18:31] <micah> anyone who is on kropotkin can get you setup with an account there
[18:31] <micah> and if you start working in an individual working group the people in that WG can get you setup on the appropriate machines related to that group
[18:32] <micah> <end>
[18:32] * micah points to johnc
[18:32] <Johnc> Gotta get going here (work calls) anybody need me for anything else, if not Ill check logs later...Peace!
[18:33] <mtoups> ok, remaining agenda items?
[18:33] * Johnc waves bye-bye 
[18:33] <mtoups> future new volunteer outreach?  future meetings?
[18:33] <mtoups> have we worked out all of the possible hosting/hardware donations?
[18:33] * Johnc is now known as Johnc|away 
[18:34] <occam> Audio / Icecast?
[18:34] <mtoups> occam: that's a good one.  we've got a server to host icecast for audio streaming which could use more help...
[18:35] <occam> berkman2 (lol)
[18:35] <mtoups> i am actually looking into this package of OCaml bindings for ogg/vorbis that includes controlling a stream/playlist via an irc bot :)
[18:35] <mtoups> if anyone wants to start an affinity group of imc techs doing functional programming, i'm there
[18:35] <occam> mtoups: more details about the box?
[18:36] <mtoups> yeah, berkman is a nice box hosted on nice bandwidth in amsterdam, running freebsd and icecast
[18:37] <mtoups> and yeah, it could definitely be used a lot more by folks
[18:37] <occam> no, i mean the new audio box..
[18:37] <mtoups> mostly its a matter of coordinating with all the cool local people already doing audio work
[18:37] <mtoups> oh, new audio box?  i don't know about that one...
[18:38] <micah> should we wrap things up, or is there more we can talk about today?
[18:39] <occam> syndication / decentralisation?
[18:39] <mtoups> ooh syndication
[18:39] <occam> its a cool goal for tech in general
[18:39] <mtoups> for sure, we need more people to do rss stuff so that our syndication works better
[18:39] <occam> PseudoPunk: you wanne say something about cities.inc an contactdb?
[18:40] <mtoups> (see the right column features on www.indymedia.org ... left column syndicated stuff on pgh.indymedia.org)
[18:40] <PseudoPunk> occam: why ?
[18:41] <occam> how it works etc..
[18:41] * luis asks: where can i find cities.inc today? its no longer on indymedia.org/cities.inc, is it?
[18:41] <PseudoPunk> luis: yes it is
[18:41] <occam> http://indymedia.org/cities.inc
[18:42] <PseudoPunk> every imc can keep their info up to date. admins can then breng the info online (both cities.inc & contact.inc).
[18:42] <PseudoPunk> but the code is old & spaghetti style. we need to rewrite it & add more functionality
[18:42] * earthman raises for mtoups at wrapup time
[18:43] <mtoups> also, how do we want to reach out to the new volunteers who aren't here today?
[18:43] <mtoups> future meetings? something else?
[18:43] * drewCph is away: for the night
[18:44] <micah> it might be good to post something to the list saying we had a great meeting, the logs are here if you couldn't make it, maybe we have one of these every month?
[18:44] * earthman twinkles at micah
[18:44] <occam> is there any overview of the new volunteers? looks like there are all lost in the Mailinglist?
[18:45] * patrick twinkles at micah
[18:45] <mtoups> so, do this again one month from now, and we each try to get more new people here?
[18:45] <micah> luis: can you send out that message with the log you kept?
[18:45] <patrick> PARTY!!!
[18:45] * micah rolls out the keg
[18:45] * patrick looks around for taps
[18:46] <earthman> mtoups: as for "next" meeting, maybe a 4h time shift? (thinking of shayne and others near there)
[18:46] * chrisc free beer, yay! :-)
[18:46] * occam agrees..
[18:46] <luis> can i send you the log and you send the message? you definitely speak/write in english better than me :-)
[18:46] <mtoups> earthman: yes, i'd like to see our australian friends
[18:46] * earthman raises for one last "businessy" thing before the keg gets tapped
[18:46] * drewCph thinks digital beer just isn't as good
[18:46] * patrick puts tap down
[18:47] <mtoups> earthman: would 1600 gmt or 0000 gmt be better?
[18:47] <PseudoPunk> we know since years we need to rotate times/days
[18:47] <earthman> mtoups: could you give a mention to the various post-meeting places that people have mentioned for follow-up discussion?  #keyserver #twiki ... the rest?
[18:47] <mtoups> yes yes
[18:48] * mtoups changes topic to 'follow up at: #listwork #keyservers #mir #dns #global_templates^O'
[18:48] <Naton> #globaltemplates ?
[18:48] <Naton> ah :)
[18:48] * mtoups changes topic to 'follow up at: #listwork #keyservers #mir #dns #globaltemplates^O'
[18:48] <Naton> oh well
[18:49] <earthman> mtoups: i'm amenable to either, i think it's 4am where he is, so a meeting starting at midnight and running for 2h, vs a meeting starting at 8am ... and running into "work hours?"   which would be more fair to the lieft-out do you think?
[18:49] <PseudoPunk> are we done ?
[18:49] * drewCph has left #meeting (Client Exiting^O) 
[18:49] <patrick> midnight 
[18:49] <mtoups> does everyone else like 1600gmt ??
[18:49] <intrigeri> I do 
[18:49] <Naton> works
[18:49] <patrick> yes
[18:49] <toya> naton yes
[18:49] <chrisc> yeah that is ok
[18:50] <earthman> PseudoPunk: other than setting the next time, and of course the keg, i think ;-)
[18:50] <mtoups> 1600 gmt feb ... 14 ? (keep it on a weekend?)
[18:50] <mtoups> err , valentine's day :)
[18:50] <mtoups> feb 15?
[18:50] <PseudoPunk> do it then, then it's not a completely wasted day :-)
[18:50] <earthman> mtoups: that presumes that imc geeks have no romantic partners that woud break up over that date? :)
[18:51] * GhostOfStallman has joined #meeting
[18:51] <GhostOfStallman> yessss naaaaton
[18:51] * chrisc rembers when the local lug had a meet in the 14th feb and the turn out was even sadder than usual... 
[18:51] <Naton> ?
[18:51] <earthman> chrisc: sad that they all came? ;-)
[18:51] * GhostOfStallman has quit IRC (Client Quit^O)
[18:52] <Naton> (what did i do?)
[18:52] <intrigeri> about the way we talk together: I think facilitation is really a must in meetings willing to integrate new people.
[18:52] <micah> heh
[18:52] <intrigeri> I mean: it's not easy, as a newcomer, to get into a loosely facilitated discussion,
[18:52] <intrigeri> when everybody already knows each other and speaks together in a "free" way.
[18:52] <patrick> I think the ghost made a mistake: s/naaaaton/mtoups
[18:53] <Naton> patrick: ok
[18:53] <micah> intrigeri: its a good point, its our first volunteer coordination meeting
[18:53] <toya> it was good though
[18:53] <patrick> good point intrigeri
[18:53] <mtoups> we could make the channel require voice
[18:53] <patrick> another good point
[18:53] * patrick twinkles strongly
[18:54] <toya> i could have a view of whats goign on...which is a lot and difficult to get if you have to look for it
[18:54] <patrick> that would clear out /msg's too, which could make things even more organized
[18:54] * Anna has joined #meeting
[18:54] <toya> but i agree with intrigeri
[18:54] <mtoups> what about the meeting facilitation bot?
[18:54] * drewCph has joined #meeting 
[18:55] <PseudoPunk> cu all people.
[18:55] * PseudoPunk is now known as Ps-Aw
[18:56] * earthman wants to thank mtoups for the great facilitating thugh, and everyone else
[18:56] <mtoups> oh thanks, hopefully we can do more "team" facilitaiton in the future 
[18:56] <mtoups> and/or utilize bots
[18:56] <Zapata> is there an irc facilitation bot?
[18:56] <patrick> an mtoups bot!
[18:56] <mtoups> as it is hard to both facil a meeting, deal with msgs, other channels, and participate :)
[18:56] <Zapata> is someone working on that?
[18:57] <mtoups> Zapata: apparently there is something similar out there that we need to hack to work for indymedia
[18:57] <Zapata> ok
[18:57] <intrigeri> anyway, I am glad to have finally managed to get involved in this big big imc-tech galaxy
[18:58] * travis_ has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer^O)
[18:58] <bugg> eggdrops are very flexible, but I don't remember any TCL
[18:58] <mtoups> intrigeri: good :)
[18:59] <patrick> wait, I mean /me
[18:59] <patrick> 's, not /msg's in my comment above about voice,
[18:59] <earthman> intrigeri: *nod*  ... and welcome!
[19:00] <intrigeri> earthman: :)
[19:02] * drewCph has left #meeting (Client Exiting^O)
[19:03] * occam sets mode: +o Anna
[19:05] * idefix has left #meeting (Client exiting^O)
[19:07] * toya has left #meeting
[19:08] * Naton has left #meeting (Leaving^O)
[19:18] * occam has quit IRC (Quit: back thuesday^O)
[19:20] * matze has left #meeting
[19:25] * intrigeri has left #meeting
[19:25] <micah> Zapata: actually... pabs/zl2tod were working on one
[19:26] <micah> dunno if they got anywhere
[19:26] <mtoups> speaking of irc bots, i am excited about this irc bot that controls audio streams and is written in ocaml
[19:26] <mtoups> too bad all the mailing lists/docs are written in french and i don't speak french.  french folks in here?
[19:26] <micah> I know that they were also working on an irc server status bot
[19:26] <micah> http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Sysadmin/ServerStatusAuto
[19:27] <micah> mtoups: talk to jb
[19:27] <micah> mtoups: or intigeri
[19:27] <micah> or maybe genex?
[19:40] * init has quit IRC (Quit: leaving^O)
Session Close: Sun Jan 18 19:47:27 2004

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