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[07-08-2003 00:02] <zicah> ok, so lets make this quick then, since there aren't many of us we don't really have too much authority 
[07-08-2003 00:02] <zicah> agenda we came up with:
[07-08-2003 00:02] <zapATIsta> micah's determined to sit last
[07-08-2003 00:02] <zicah> 1. proposal for galaxy-7 sarai hosting
[07-08-2003 00:02] <zicah> 2. server problems
[07-08-2003 00:02] <zicah> 3. maybe a short explanation of the severe abuse today
[07-08-2003 00:03] <zicah> any others?
[07-08-2003 00:03] <Zapata> not from me
[07-08-2003 00:03] <zicah> ok, moving right along then
[07-08-2003 00:03] * zicah changes topic to 'proposal for galaxy-7 sarai hosting'
[07-08-2003 00:03] <zicah> you guys saw my message to tech about giving galaxy-7 $150?
[07-08-2003 00:04] <Zapata> I did yeah...
[07-08-2003 00:04] <zicah> any problems with it?
[07-08-2003 00:04] * zicah is finding the link for the log
[07-08-2003 00:04] <Zapata> I don't have any problems with it...
[07-08-2003 00:04] <zicah> http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-tech/2003-July/011624.html
[07-08-2003 00:05] <zicah> it might be good to talk about thinking up a more sustainable amount and regular in the future
[07-08-2003 00:05] <Zapata> yeah
[07-08-2003 00:05] <zicah> but if nobody has a problem with the proposal, then it is considered passed at the meeting, and following process it is essentially passed as long as nobody has a problem on the list afterwards
[07-08-2003 00:05] <Zapata> ok
[07-08-2003 00:06] * zicah changes topic to 'server problems'
[07-08-2003 00:06] <zicah> so, ahimsa, stallman, stray
[07-08-2003 00:06] <zicah> ahimsa seems to be solved for now, at least until the upstream router purges their ICMP block
[07-08-2003 00:06] <zapATIsta> kewl
[07-08-2003 00:07] <zicah> quick results on that, thanks to jebba
[07-08-2003 00:07] <zicah> and a few gaffs by the colo people
[07-08-2003 00:07] <zicah> stefani is going to go to check on stallman pretty soon now
[07-08-2003 00:07] <zicah> she was stuck at work dealing with DCOM virus
[07-08-2003 00:07] <Zapata> any clue what stallman's problem is?
[07-08-2003 00:08] <zicah> no idea, it froze like this a week or so ago also
[07-08-2003 00:08] <Zapata> ok...
[07-08-2003 00:08] <zicah> but the raid card was too much of a distraction so we didn't track down what caused it
[07-08-2003 00:09] <zicah> it could have froze again.
[07-08-2003 00:09] <zicah> I think that apache/php need to be upgraded on stallman to patch some security holes
[07-08-2003 00:09] <zicah> and a new kernel is in order I think, but new kernels on stallman are scary
[07-08-2003 00:09] <zicah> because of the raid card...
[07-08-2003 00:09] <zicah> but I am willing to give it a shot as long as someone is down there to boot into a different kernel if it fails
[07-08-2003 00:09] <zicah> that poormachine has been running HARD for a long time, and has been relatively stable
[07-08-2003 00:09] <zicah> i just hope it isn't a raid card issue agan
[07-08-2003 00:10] <zicah> oh, also... sarai was rebooted last night for some reason
[07-08-2003 00:10] <zapATIsta> yup
[07-08-2003 00:10] <zicah> so was the other machine that risuep has at that colo, so I expect that to be the reason
[07-08-2003 00:10] <zicah> now stray...
[07-08-2003 00:11] <zicah> what i know is a new kernel was compiled which took out support for the disks on there
[07-08-2003 00:11] <zicah> and then they took the disks out
[07-08-2003 00:11] <zicah> and then they put them back and and are trying to copy things over
[07-08-2003 00:11] <zicah> I dont know where things are at now, it sounds crazy to me
[07-08-2003 00:11] <Zapata> well...
[07-08-2003 00:12] <Zapata> I heard they had some problems...
[07-08-2003 00:12] <Zapata> like databases that were out of sync...
[07-08-2003 00:12] <Zapata> they're thinking of a way to fix that too...
[07-08-2003 00:12] <zicah> yeah, xmux tried to get things online for argentina, and put up an old database
[07-08-2003 00:12] <zicah> although it was the only database that existed
[07-08-2003 00:12] <zicah> so you can't blame him
[07-08-2003 00:12] <zapATIsta> rules out "collisions" then
[07-08-2003 00:13] <zicah> yeah, he can fix it, its just a mess overall
[07-08-2003 00:14] <Zapata> ok...
[07-08-2003 00:14] <zicah> so, moving on, perhaps a record meeting tonight
[07-08-2003 00:14] * zicah changes topic to 'abuses today'
[07-08-2003 00:15] <zicah> I guess we talked about ahimsa
[07-08-2003 00:15] <Zapata> well...
[07-08-2003 00:15] <Zapata> they had a ddos attack...
[07-08-2003 00:15] <zicah> yeah, it was directed at italy
[07-08-2003 00:15] <Zapata> right...
[07-08-2003 00:15] <Zapata> using icmp requests...
[07-08-2003 00:16] * keysjrw has joined #meeting
[07-08-2003 00:16] <Zapata> and there is nothing that generally can be done against attacks like that?
[07-08-2003 00:16] <zapATIsta> many machines I presume?
[07-08-2003 00:16] <zicah> not so easy to track down
[07-08-2003 00:16] <zicah> well, they had the upstream router drop ICMP that was directed to that IP address
[07-08-2003 00:16] <zicah> which effectively stops it
[07-08-2003 00:16] <zicah> zapATIsta: yep, many
[07-08-2003 00:16] <zicah> keysjrw: howdy
[07-08-2003 00:16] <Zapata> but that's an ad hoc solution...
[07-08-2003 00:16] <keysjrw> howdy, anything I can do?
[07-08-2003 00:17] <zicah> zapata: yeah, I am not sure what else can be done in that situation
[07-08-2003 00:17] <Zapata> ok...
[07-08-2003 00:17] <zicah> keysjrw: we are finishing up our meeting here, maybe we can talk about that after?
[07-08-2003 00:17] <zapATIsta> yeah, we already have consensus AGAINST baseball bats and showing up at peoples' houses.
[07-08-2003 00:18] <zicah> so, yeah... thats the bandwidth stealing thing
[07-08-2003 00:18] <Zapata> ok...
[07-08-2003 00:18] <Zapata> the bandwidth stealing thing...
[07-08-2003 00:18] <Zapata> apparently some imcs had big copyrighted popular music video posts...
[07-08-2003 00:18] <zicah> I dont really understand some of the solutions posted by Alsterwassermann
[07-08-2003 00:19] <zicah> 1. wget -r his sites & delete all the media he posted; whip up some
[07-08-2003 00:19] <zicah> P> perl/awk/sed to extract the urls
[07-08-2003 00:19] <zicah> oh... that is to find which IMC sites have the media
[07-08-2003 00:19] <Zapata> yeah
[07-08-2003 00:19] <Zapata> but this only works for this case...
[07-08-2003 00:19] <zicah> it looks like jb cleaned up some of that
[07-08-2003 00:19] <Zapata> from the moment I started doing indymedia work, I suspected something like this would happen....
[07-08-2003 00:20] <zicah> yeah, as does adding the block from his address
[07-08-2003 00:20] <zicah> me too
[07-08-2003 00:20] <Zapata> suppose someone posts something to an indymedia site that isn't checked anymore by a collective...
[07-08-2003 00:20] <zicah> people have resisted for a long time user registration
[07-08-2003 00:20] <zapATIsta> do we still make huge thumbnails of videos, or was that just an old active thing that's been long since dealt with?
[07-08-2003 00:20] <Zapata> we may never find out...
[07-08-2003 00:20] <zicah> we don't make thumbnails of videos, but of pictures, yes
[07-08-2003 00:20] <zicah> Zapata: such IMC sites should go away
[07-08-2003 00:20] <zapATIsta> ok, good.
[07-08-2003 00:21] <Zapata> yeah, but that's outside of imc tech...
[07-08-2003 00:21] <zapATIsta> weren't audios and videos automatically creating "thumbnails" that had to be carved out periodically?
[07-08-2003 00:21] <zicah> right, but imc tech might be able to find those IMCs which are inactive and bring them to the attention of new-imc to deal with it
[07-08-2003 00:21] <zicah> zapATIsta: oh yeah, I think that was fixed
[07-08-2003 00:21] <Zapata> yeah... true...
[07-08-2003 00:22] <zapATIsta> good. I was thinking that would compound our probs.
[07-08-2003 00:22] <Zapata> and also, we should inform imcs that they should watch things like this...
[07-08-2003 00:22] * xmux has joined #meeting
[07-08-2003 00:22] <zicah> there are a number of sites that still have this stuff posted
[07-08-2003 00:22] <zicah> hey xmux
[07-08-2003 00:22] <Zapata> not all imcs may be aware of the nature this problem...
[07-08-2003 00:22] <zicah> Zapata: very true
[07-08-2003 00:22] <xmux> hi
[07-08-2003 00:22] <zicah> xmux: we are talking about the bandwidth stealer right now
[07-08-2003 00:23] <zicah> xmux: but do you want to give a quick update on stray's status?
[07-08-2003 00:23] <zicah> if you know anything more
[07-08-2003 00:23] <xmux> I probably have less information that you do
[07-08-2003 00:23] <zicah> so bandwidth stealer: 1. we need to compile a list of all IMCs that were affected and contact them to alert them of the problem
[07-08-2003 00:24] <Zapata> and generally raise awareness on this issue...
[07-08-2003 00:24] <zicah> 2. we can block what we can, but we need to discuss this more
[07-08-2003 00:24] <zapATIsta> the ones that are off server like stl and mke might have to find out just from google searching instead of wget and stuff, huh?
[07-08-2003 00:24] <zicah> zapATIsta: yeah
[07-08-2003 00:24] <zicah> so it seems to me that we should construct an email, and get a list of the IMCs affected and contact them
[07-08-2003 00:25] * mtoups has joined #meeting
[07-08-2003 00:25] <zicah> mtoups
[07-08-2003 00:25] <Zapata> ok...
[07-08-2003 00:25] * zicah is now known as micah
[07-08-2003 00:25] <mtoups> hey, sorry i'm late, is there a log?
[07-08-2003 00:25] <mtoups> heh, zicah
[07-08-2003 00:25] <micah> mtoups: yeah zapata is keeping it
[07-08-2003 00:25] <micah> mtoups: it was originally just three of us so it was going quickly
[07-08-2003 00:26] <micah> so I guess someone needs to do those things
[07-08-2003 00:26] <micah> keysjrw: want to do something?
[07-08-2003 00:26] <keysjrw> sure
[07-08-2003 00:26] <micah> keysjrw: are you subscribed to imc-tech?
[07-08-2003 00:26] <keysjrw> i was, think I am, but not positive
[07-08-2003 00:27] <micah> keysjrw: ok, well check out this thread:
[07-08-2003 00:27] <micah> http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-tech/2003-August/011633.html
[07-08-2003 00:27] <micah> Alsterwassermann suggests finding all the sites that were affected by using google
[07-08-2003 00:27] <micah> we need a list of all the IMCs that were affected
[07-08-2003 00:27] <micah> so we can contact them about this problem
[07-08-2003 00:28] <keysjrw> so, y'all are doing stallman, and you need the non stllman, or all and stallman?
[07-08-2003 00:28] <micah> mtoups/xmux: we approved the $150 for galaxy-7 for sarai, the proposal I made on the list, if you have anything to say about it, you had bette rnow
[07-08-2003 00:29] <micah> keysjrw: yeah, I believe jb took care of all the stallman sites
[07-08-2003 00:29] <keysjrw> k
[07-08-2003 00:29] <micah> keysjrw: but I think we ought to have a list of all so we can contact them all
[07-08-2003 00:29] <mtoups> micah: i'm all for it, and maybe this is a good time to mention that they needn't ever unplug it again (they feel bad but let's nicely remind em )
[07-08-2003 00:29] <micah> keysjrw: because we need to raise awareness with all the IMCs that this has happened
[07-08-2003 00:29] <keysjrw> no doubt
[07-08-2003 00:29] <micah> mtoups: if you can think of a good way to say that, I will
[07-08-2003 00:29] <xmux> No, I have nothing to say against that
[07-08-2003 00:30] <micah> keysjrw: ok, cool, can you post a list to imc-tech to that thread, and then we'll put a letter together to all of them about it
[07-08-2003 00:30] * zapATIsta remembers switching cisco routers out occasionally at colos and wondering how this kind of stuff keeps from happening a LOT more often. :
[07-08-2003 00:31] <keysjrw> k
[07-08-2003 00:31] <mtoups> micah: i'm thinking something like "hey we're happy to support you guys and are totally ready to help out, please make sure to let us know what you need from us in the future and try to avoid any system downtime" ?
[07-08-2003 00:32] <micah> so the other thing that has been happening a lot in the abuse department, is the virus that comes from admin@lists.indymedia.org and contains an attachment. I wrote to listwork today because I blocked it at the postfix level, I am worried about it, so I want people to be aware
[07-08-2003 00:32] <micah> today alone it was sent I think 83 times to people
[07-08-2003 00:32] <micah> mtoups: ooh good,
[07-08-2003 00:33] <zapATIsta> yikes. in the various lists? Or just a few certain ones or what?
[07-08-2003 00:33] * micah changes topic to 'other stuff'
[07-08-2003 00:33] <micah> zapATIsta: not sure where they were going
[07-08-2003 00:33] <micah> I know I've received a couple
[07-08-2003 00:33] <micah> I dont know if you've all seen it, but jb put together a list archive search: http://sarai.indymedia.org/~jb/search.cgi
[07-08-2003 00:34] <micah> hmm, what else...
[07-08-2003 00:34] <micah> mtoups: any movement on the 2.12 upgrade?
[07-08-2003 00:34] * zapATIsta was wondering when THAT kind of stuff was gonna begin ever since virii started coming "from" official microsoft depts.
[07-08-2003 00:35] <zapATIsta> zapata was trying to help me fix a newswire that's been stuck on july20th since almost as long.
[07-08-2003 00:36] <zapATIsta> wondering if anyone's already had that happen in old active and remembers how to overcome it.
[07-08-2003 00:36] <zapATIsta> stlimc restarted apache but that didn't do the trick either.
[07-08-2003 00:36] <mtoups> micah: yeah now that i'm back home i'm ready to go for it. it'll involve building python 2.2.3-3 packages and i'll want to test that on kropotkin to make sure it doesn't break other things
[07-08-2003 00:36] <micah> hrm, I dont remember... we need to get all old-active sites moved to something else
[07-08-2003 00:36] <mtoups> on that topic...
[07-08-2003 00:36] <micah> mtoups: cool
[07-08-2003 00:36] <Zapata> yeah... and we need a campaign to do that...
[07-08-2003 00:37] <mtoups> we've got a new server in pittsburgh that can host sf-active sites
[07-08-2003 00:37] <zapATIsta> yeah, zapata said he'd help me if we pick mir
[07-08-2003 00:37] <micah> Zapata: well, seattle was going to switch to dada or sf-active, but they never decided on which
[07-08-2003 00:37] <mtoups> i'm kind of waiting for the new sf-active rev to be released but new orleans is already hosted there
[07-08-2003 00:37] <micah> mtoups: cool
[07-08-2003 00:37] <Zapata> micah: we should perhaps email all active imcs...
[07-08-2003 00:37] <zapATIsta> frankly it's been just me as the tech rep for mke for so long I think I'm gonna just decide that on my own instead of waiting for some ethereal consensus out there from people who "may someday join"
[07-08-2003 00:37] <micah> zapata: not a bad idea
[07-08-2003 00:38] <Zapata> and also check wether the non-responders have active collectives....
[07-08-2003 00:38] <mtoups> Zapata: brian (aka ski) emailed all active IMCs a few months back
[07-08-2003 00:38] <micah> zapata: although we dont want a flood of people... we need one to test, get bugs out, then move to another, then once it is streamlined...
[07-08-2003 00:38] <mtoups> where "active" means the codebase
[07-08-2003 00:38] <zapATIsta> that was just about getting a contact email current though if I remember right.
[07-08-2003 00:38] <Zapata> mtoups: perhaps a targeted campaign.... 5 at a time... detailing codebase options... with directions where to go for support etc...
[07-08-2003 00:38] <micah> oh right, he did
[07-08-2003 00:39] <Zapata> and perhaps in cooperation with the different codebase developers...
[07-08-2003 00:39] * zapATIsta would love to be one of the first 5 guinea pigs, er uh I mean conscripts.
[07-08-2003 00:39] <micah> next time he shows up ponline I'll query him
[07-08-2003 00:39] <mtoups> Zapata: i am starting with IMCs i have contacts with already ... new orleans, i've talked to cleveland about it, and pittsburgh needs to upgrade from the old sf-active to the new version
[07-08-2003 00:40] <zapATIsta> who's got the definitive suggestion for which codebase mke oughta upgrade to if stl's hosting us and running debian now.
[07-08-2003 00:40] <zapATIsta> the big issue all along was that they were running redhat 7.0
[07-08-2003 00:40] <micah> I'm not sure about stl, who is managing that server?
[07-08-2003 00:40] <micah> mtoups: are any of those on stallman?
[07-08-2003 00:40] <Zapata> ati: didn't you want to switch hosting as well?>
[07-08-2003 00:41] <mtoups> micah: cleveland is currently on stallman and itching to move
[07-08-2003 00:41] <mtoups> (they didn't even have a shell on stallman until last month)
[07-08-2003 00:41] <micah> mtoups: howcome they want to move, disk space problems?
[07-08-2003 00:41] <mtoups> micah: um maybe cuz active sucks
[07-08-2003 00:41] <micah> mtoups: well.. heh, they actually DID
[07-08-2003 00:42] <mtoups> right but the current cleveland people didn't have it i guess
[07-08-2003 00:42] <micah> mtoups: they had a shell and then whoever had access to it didn't bother telling anyone I guess or disappeared
[07-08-2003 00:42] <micah> mtoups: ahh, of course.. well, we are talking about trying to get all stallman active sites to not be active any more
[07-08-2003 00:42] <micah> possibly on stallman
[07-08-2003 00:42] <mtoups> right on
[07-08-2003 00:42] <micah> but if people want to move off of stallman, thats fine
[07-08-2003 00:42] <mtoups> i guess i meant they are itching to move off active
[07-08-2003 00:43] <micah> ah right
[07-08-2003 00:43] <Zapata> micah: you mean that's even better
[07-08-2003 00:43] <micah> mtoups: perhaps they can be the first stallman test case
[07-08-2003 00:43] <micah> Zapata: hehe
[07-08-2003 00:43] <micah> anyone know what others experiences with running more than one code-vbase on a server are?
[07-08-2003 00:43] <micah> like running sf-active, dada and mir?
[07-08-2003 00:43] <micah> are there any mir sites that run anything else?
[07-08-2003 00:43] <Zapata> hmmm
[07-08-2003 00:43] <mtoups> hmmm zero ran dada and freeform at the same time i heard
[07-08-2003 00:44] <Zapata> mir sites usually run seperate publich and admin sites...
[07-08-2003 00:44] <mtoups> micah: cleveland might not be the best idea since i don't think their techs are very well connected to us
[07-08-2003 00:44] <micah> yeah
[07-08-2003 00:44] <Zapata> there are no mir admin sites that I know of that also run dada or sf-active...
[07-08-2003 00:44] <micah> mtoups: true
[07-08-2003 00:44] <Zapata> but doesn't ahimsa run dada and sf-active?
[07-08-2003 00:44] <micah> yeah, it does
[07-08-2003 00:44] <micah> and it seems to funciton ok
[07-08-2003 00:45] <micah> except for the ddos
[07-08-2003 00:45] <zapATIsta> Zapata, possibly switching hosting, but not sure because we're one of stl's first sites to host besides themselves. They might be rather attached to having us. Although they're not majorly communicative with us either.
[07-08-2003 00:45] <Zapata> ok
[07-08-2003 00:45] <mtoups> btw as a side note if anyone ever needs to convert a postnuke site to sf-active you can find the magic sql query here: http://indymedia.23rdward.org/pipermail/imc-neworleans/2003-July/000059.html
[07-08-2003 00:45] <micah> any thing else anyone wants to talk about now?
[07-08-2003 00:45] <micah> how is everyone's summer going?
[07-08-2003 00:45] <Zapata> and there are scripts to go from active to mir/dada/sf-active
[07-08-2003 00:46] <Zapata> hottest summer of my life...
[07-08-2003 00:46] <micah> from what I know the active-->sf-active script needs some work
[07-08-2003 00:46] <mtoups> hmm i've spent time with five different IMCs so far this summer
[07-08-2003 00:46] * zapATIsta would love to move mke onto stallman if there's ever enough room.
[07-08-2003 00:46] <mtoups> oh what's the status on images.indymedia.org these days? and can all codebases use it?
[07-08-2003 00:46] <Zapata> hmmm
[07-08-2003 00:46] <Zapata> mir may not... not sure...
[07-08-2003 00:46] <micah> yeah it is certainly available
[07-08-2003 00:47] <micah> paranode
[07-08-2003 00:47] <Zapata> does images.indymedia.org need to have all media files in 1 directory?
[07-08-2003 00:47] <mtoups> maybe we should take a look at DNS issues at some point
[07-08-2003 00:47] <xmux> Zapata: uhg
[07-08-2003 00:47] <micah> zapata: no they dont
[07-08-2003 00:48] <Zapata> ok...
[07-08-2003 00:48] <Zapata> that was loudeye then....
[07-08-2003 00:48] <micah> zapata: you can make subdirectories if you want
[07-08-2003 00:48] <Zapata> in that case mir supports it as well...
[07-08-2003 00:48] <micah> zapata: no, loudeye was ok with that too
[07-08-2003 00:48] <micah> zapata: the problem was that all the sites using active dumped everything into one directory
[07-08-2003 00:48] <xmux> How do media files get onto images?
[07-08-2003 00:48] <Zapata> but I don't think paranode is used by the mir sites...
[07-08-2003 00:48] * zapATIsta thinks we got used to loving loudeye.
[07-08-2003 00:48] <micah> zapata: so things were a total mess.. .but if you start from scratch and make the appropriate directories it should be fine
[07-08-2003 00:49] <Zapata> which is something we can work on... there are 3 mir sites using stallman...
[07-08-2003 00:49] <micah> xmux: via ftp script
[07-08-2003 00:49] <mtoups> oh, i have a quick question
[07-08-2003 00:49] <xmux> micah: Is it only for static content?
[07-08-2003 00:49] <mtoups> it seems no one is moderating imc-tech@lists.indy anymore
[07-08-2003 00:49] <mtoups> or at least not very often
[07-08-2003 00:50] <micah> xmux: no, it does multimedia, that is what it is primarily used for
[07-08-2003 00:50] <micah> mtoups: I've noticed that too, even though there are like three people
[07-08-2003 00:50] <micah> mtoups: wanna do it?
[07-08-2003 00:50] <mtoups> micah: sure, i do it now and then anyway, but in general we need more people
[07-08-2003 00:51] <zapATIsta> zapata: which is easier, trying to change hosting and codebase at the same time, or changing codebase say a monthish from now, and then changing hosting a few months later?
[07-08-2003 00:51] <xmux> Is there some script for active that updates all of the links after you put stuff on images, I'm just curious
[07-08-2003 00:51] <mtoups> for example i was out of town for three weeks so imc-tech didn't get much moderation at all
[07-08-2003 00:51] <mtoups> so i think me and one other person in this room should jump on board
[07-08-2003 00:51] <micah> xmux: exactly
[07-08-2003 00:51] <Zapata> ati: depends on the codebase... but I would generally reccommend doing both at the same time...
[07-08-2003 00:51] <mtoups> ah ski is back
[07-08-2003 00:51] <micah> ski is back
[07-08-2003 00:51] <micah> ?
[07-08-2003 00:52] <micah> I dont see him
[07-08-2003 00:52] <Zapata> ati: you should review the codebases... ask for an sf-active demo site, a dada demo site... I'll set up a mir demo site for ya...
[07-08-2003 00:52] * ski has joined #meeting
[07-08-2003 00:52] <mtoups>
[07-08-2003 00:52] <micah> aha, hi ski
[07-08-2003 00:52] <zapATIsta> ok
[07-08-2003 00:52] <ski> hello, what meeting is this? tech?
[07-08-2003 00:52] <micah> yep
[07-08-2003 00:52] <mtoups> hey brian, wanna help moderate imc-tech@lists.indy ?
[07-08-2003 00:52] <Zapata> ati: and once you decide on codebase, you should plan the transition
[07-08-2003 00:52] <mtoups> i kind of like this free for all unmoderated meeting actually
[07-08-2003 00:52] <micah> when it is small it is doable
[07-08-2003 00:52] <ski> oh man, listwork... i thought i told jb to take listwork and shove it up his ass?
[07-08-2003 00:53] <ski> hehe, yeah, i can help moderate imc-tech, that's fine
[07-08-2003 00:53] <micah> ski: I was wondering about the results of your contacting all active sites, we need to do that to get them to switch
[07-08-2003 00:53] <micah> cool
[07-08-2003 00:53] <ski> ahh
[07-08-2003 00:53] <ski> that should be getting in to the contact database RSN
[07-08-2003 00:53] <ski> pseudopunk just dropped me an account, so i'm going to be actually doing that soonish
[07-08-2003 00:53] <micah> so you've managed to gte a hold of all active sites?
[07-08-2003 00:54] <ski> no, many of them. hang on
[07-08-2003 00:54] <micah> we are planning a great exodus
[07-08-2003 00:54] <ski> hell yes.
[07-08-2003 00:54] <ski> off of stallman?
[07-08-2003 00:54] <ski> or away from active?
[07-08-2003 00:55] <mtoups> another question to throw out: what became of the "major vulnerabilities in active" security problem?
[07-08-2003 00:55] <Zapata> ski: both
[07-08-2003 00:55] <Zapata> but away from active is more important
[07-08-2003 00:55] <mtoups> micah: didn't i forward a message about that to you and matze? its still sitting in the imc-tech moderation queue
[07-08-2003 00:55] <ski> ok, looks like i've got roughly 20 imcs left to contact
[07-08-2003 00:55] <micah> ski: at least away from activew
[07-08-2003 00:55] <micah> but off of stallman is good too
[07-08-2003 00:55] <ski> mtoups - did you talk at all about dega?
[07-08-2003 00:55] <micah> mtoups: those were fixed
[07-08-2003 00:55] <mtoups> ski: nope i mentioned staughton though go for it
[07-08-2003 00:56] <ski> oh awesome.
[07-08-2003 00:56] <micah> mtoups: about which?
[07-08-2003 00:56] <ski> well, deganawida is staughton, but for dada instead of sf-active
[07-08-2003 00:56] <mtoups> micah: about the SQL injection "proof of concept" ... which i will send out to imc-tech now
[07-08-2003 00:56] <mtoups> regarding deganawida and staughton: if people want to help admin a dada server (dega) or sf-active (staughton) contact ski or myself respectively
[07-08-2003 00:56] <micah> mtoups: ahh, dont get anyone scared, ianb fixed all that
[07-08-2003 00:56] <ski> right now we've got imc canarias and most of the hosts on zero.indy (which will soon require $50-70/month to colo and I don't think the imc's ther have it or the organization to get it to the colo)
[07-08-2003 00:57] <mtoups> micah: er ok i can discard it, just didn't want to look like we were avoiding full disclosure
[07-08-2003 00:57] <micah> mtoups/ski: can you put info about these servers up on the wiki?
[07-08-2003 00:57] <ski> micah - good call
[07-08-2003 00:57] <micah> mtoups: oh, I just think it is old nes and people might get confused
[07-08-2003 00:57] <micah> ski: cool, when you get stuff in the contacts database, let me know
[07-08-2003 00:58] <mtoups> micah: no prob then
[07-08-2003 00:58] <micah> ski: we can start contacting those active sites relatively soon to get them thinking about options
[07-08-2003 00:58] <ski> micah - i take it you are primarily looking to contact sites on stallman? or active sites in general?
[07-08-2003 00:58] <micah> so servers that can accept things
[07-08-2003 00:58] * keysjrw Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[07-08-2003 00:58] * nksjs has joined #meeting
[07-08-2003 00:58] <ski> micah - i can send you a list of what i've got so far
[07-08-2003 00:58] <Zapata> ski: send it to me too please
[07-08-2003 00:59] <ski> ok zapata
[07-08-2003 00:59] <micah> dada server (dega) or sf-active (staughton), ahimsa (dada and sf-active), zapata: are their mir admin sites that can take more?
[07-08-2003 00:59] <ski> i sent it to mark (i think) and pseudopunk and blicero who are working with the contact db
[07-08-2003 00:59] <micah> ski: yeah, on stallman I am interested in mostly
[07-08-2003 00:59] <nksjs> micah, what was that thread?
[07-08-2003 00:59] <Zapata> micah: sure...
[07-08-2003 00:59] <ski> i don't think i have a copy of it anymore, but i can regenerate the list if need be or get a copy from one of those punks
[07-08-2003 00:59] <micah> nksjs: http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-tech/2003-August/011633.html
[07-08-2003 00:59] <nksjs> thx
[07-08-2003 00:59] <micah> np
[07-08-2003 01:00] <micah> I am pretty sure linefeed can't take more sites right now
[07-08-2003 01:00] * ski looks both ways to make sure gek isn't here and then chortles about linefeed not being able to take the hosts its got so far
[07-08-2003 01:00] <micah> ok, cool... we need ot put together a brief "why you need to move off of active, here are the options" email
[07-08-2003 01:01] <micah> anyone want to venture some reasons of why to move off of active?
[07-08-2003 01:01] <ski> because freeform is better!
[07-08-2003 01:01] <Zapata> the primary reason is that it wastes resources...
[07-08-2003 01:01] * nksjs Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[07-08-2003 01:01] <Zapata> including human resources
[07-08-2003 01:01] <ski> actually, seriously, i think arc and the boston techs and perhaps lee from nyc imc are going to be rolling out a freeform server soon
[07-08-2003 01:01] * rabble has joined #meeting
[07-08-2003 01:02] <ski> not that we have to advertise for him.
[07-08-2003 01:02] * rabble isn't really here, he's in a party with imc uruguay adn imc germany folks
[07-08-2003 01:02] <Zapata> imc germany folks = idefix?
[07-08-2003 01:02] <ski> while we're being completely informal, can anyone recommend a place for putting a non-indy mailing list? if so please /msg me
[07-08-2003 01:03] <zapATIsta> micah: just show them mke indy which has a newswire stuck on july20 and tell them if they don't want this to happen to them, they should change code.
[07-08-2003 01:03] <zapATIsta>
[07-08-2003 01:03] <rabble> yep
[07-08-2003 01:03] <micah> so, outdated, unsupported code base
[07-08-2003 01:03] <rabble> and other germans
[07-08-2003 01:03] <micah> not being worked on, nobody knows how to support it anymore, nobody wants to
[07-08-2003 01:03] <Zapata> ah... say hi to him for me...
[07-08-2003 01:03] <micah> rabble: they are in uruguay?
[07-08-2003 01:03] <rabble> yeah
[07-08-2003 01:03] <micah> rabble; what are they doing there?
[07-08-2003 01:03] <mtoups> micah: most people think other codebases are more visually appealing (except the stock dada install)
[07-08-2003 01:03] <micah> rabble: any nadir people?
[07-08-2003 01:04] <rabble> uh, one chica looking to do some volunteer folks
[07-08-2003 01:04] <rabble> idefix is here
[07-08-2003 01:04] <micah> mtoups: good point
[07-08-2003 01:04] <mtoups> micah: also the local/global newswires that sf-active and dada have make dealing with newswire spam MUCH easier
[07-08-2003 01:04] <micah> also, nobody likes it anymore
[07-08-2003 01:04] <micah> mtoups: another good reason
[07-08-2003 01:05] <Zapata> mtoups: please don't exclude mir in that list
[07-08-2003 01:06] * jb has joined #meeting
[07-08-2003 01:06] <micah> yeah, sf-active, dada and mir are all much easier to deal with for everyone overall
[07-08-2003 01:06] * jb forgot there was a meeting. sorry.
[07-08-2003 01:07] <mtoups> Zapata: sure, i've never seen a mir site with local/global newswires
[07-08-2003 01:07] <micah> jb: have reasons for why people should switch from active to something else?
[07-08-2003 01:07] <rabble> so the discussion is upgrading everybody who's been orphaned on stallman/active?
[07-08-2003 01:07] <micah> jb: compiling list of reasons so we can contat stallman active sites
[07-08-2003 01:07] <jb> k
[07-08-2003 01:07] <zapATIsta> micah: if we lie and say it's a lot like windows ME people will start changing codebase hours after the email flies.
[07-08-2003 01:07] <micah> rabble: pretty much... nobody knows how to deal with active problems anymore, nobody wants to, and we want all stallman sites free from active
[07-08-2003 01:07] <Zapata> mtoups: that's because mir has so many possiblities, and noone desired such a solution
[07-08-2003 01:07] <rabble> i'm all for that
[07-08-2003 01:08] <jb> about reasons to leave active: in french they say: stop beating cadavers.
[07-08-2003 01:08] <rabble> i think that stray the sfimc tech collective is overworked and we should figure out how to not give htem more work
[07-08-2003 01:08] <micah> yeah, so we are going to use the contact list that ski has generated of all stallman active sites, email them why they need to change, and give them options of things to change to
[07-08-2003 01:08] <rabble> so if folks switch to sfactive then they need to go to a different server, not stray
[07-08-2003 01:08] <micah> jb: in english it would be stop beating a dead horse
[07-08-2003 01:09] <mtoups> zapATIsta: ok
[07-08-2003 01:09] <mtoups> doh
[07-08-2003 01:09] <mtoups> Zapata: ok (too many zap's)
[07-08-2003 01:09] <micah> rabble: exactly, there is a new dada and new sfactive server available now, and mir can take more
[07-08-2003 01:09] <micah> so mostly, I just want to get people to stop using active
[07-08-2003 01:10] <zapATIsta> jb: in southern new england, we say, "horse is dead, get off it"
[07-08-2003 01:10] <micah> andy responded to the injected SQL bug thing the other day saying he was surprised anyone even looked at the code anymore, he didn't
[07-08-2003 01:10] <mtoups> question: is active the only codebase that uses postgres? does it make a difference?
[07-08-2003 01:10] <Zapata> mir uses postgres...
[07-08-2003 01:10] <micah> mir can use both right?
[07-08-2003 01:10] <Zapata> no...
[07-08-2003 01:10] <Zapata> mir will be able to use both...
[07-08-2003 01:10] <micah> it doesn't make a difference really... active just uses postgres BADLY
[07-08-2003 01:10] <Zapata> in 6 months from now (optimistically speaking
[07-08-2003 01:11] <Zapata> and I consider postgres to be quite slow...
[07-08-2003 01:11] <zapATIsta> here in wisconsin though I've yet to hear that expression.
[07-08-2003 01:11] <micah> ok, these are all good reasons, once we get the contact info from ski, I'll put together a letter and send it out to the list to see what people think
[07-08-2003 01:12] <micah> so new people that arrived
[07-08-2003 01:12] <micah> have any problem with the $150 proposal for sarai
[07-08-2003 01:12] <micah> ?
[07-08-2003 01:12] <rabble> i've got idefix here, we can bug him about adding mysql support to mir
[07-08-2003 01:12] <rabble> i think money for sarai is good
[07-08-2003 01:13] <xmux> supporting only one DB and optimizing especially for it is a better idea that trying to support multiple DBs imho
[07-08-2003 01:13] <micah> well, unless anyone else has anything else to say....?
[07-08-2003 01:14] <xmux> Oh, I have something to say about stray
[07-08-2003 01:14] <micah> yah?
[07-08-2003 01:14] <xmux> Useful information for our tech support team
[07-08-2003 01:14] <Zapata> xmux: that depends... we want to use a good db layer abstraction... one that just happens to support multiple dbs
[07-08-2003 01:14] <xmux> Somebody took the production databases on stray and hid them somewhere (I still don't know where they are, they aren't on stray anywhere) so I was trying to fix stray so that all of the websites on it wouldn't be broken....
[07-08-2003 01:15] <xmux> And I ran mysql with the only databases I could find which were two months old
[07-08-2003 01:15] <rabble> there has been endless bitching about stray around the imc here, and from other latin american imc's the last week or two
[07-08-2003 01:15] <ski> re: reasons active sucks, active2 is dead (like 2 emails saying "hello world" in the past 4 months, no cvs commits), too, in case people were waiting for that
[07-08-2003 01:15] <micah> yeah, the recent outage has not been a good one
[07-08-2003 01:16] <xmux> Which caused two problems: 1) all the content is missing from the last two months until the production databases reappear 2) after that, all of the content from the last couple of days needs to be moved from the old databases into the production databases
[07-08-2003 01:16] <xmux> So, if victims from IMCs on stray appear asking questions, that's what's wrong with the databases
[07-08-2003 01:17] <micah> good to know
[07-08-2003 01:17] <mtoups> ok, there have been requests to drop the discard threshold for mailman on sarai
[07-08-2003 01:17] <micah> ah yes
[07-08-2003 01:17] <mtoups> i have seen one false positive scored 5.5 but that was a weird case i think
[07-08-2003 01:17] <mtoups> but that's why i hesitated to drop it to 5
[07-08-2003 01:18] <mtoups> thoughts?
[07-08-2003 01:18] <micah> I am wondering if we should wait a week to see the impact of the dnsbl tweaking I did today
[07-08-2003 01:18] <mtoups> oh yeah btw that rocks
[07-08-2003 01:18] <micah> see if it is still needed after that
[07-08-2003 01:18] * jb raises
[07-08-2003 01:18] <micah> jb: its freeforall, go crazy
[07-08-2003 01:18] <ski> what's the $150 proposal for sarai?
[07-08-2003 01:18] <jb> k
[07-08-2003 01:18] <jb> is the 'spamtrap' thing possible to implement with this SA plug'in ?
[07-08-2003 01:19] <micah> ski: http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-tech/2003-July/011624.html
[07-08-2003 01:19] <jb> i mean, redirecting to list.indy/spamtrap or something ?
[07-08-2003 01:19] <mtoups> well i don't know exactly how "spamtrap" worked but my understanding is that it was a procmail rule
[07-08-2003 01:19] <jb> i think it was.
[07-08-2003 01:19] <mtoups> that just took all spam above a certain level and threw it to another address
[07-08-2003 01:19] <mtoups> so we could re-add such a rule (are we even using procmail anymore)
[07-08-2003 01:19] <micah> jb: with spamtrap we collected spam and gave it to the internet through google
[07-08-2003 01:20] <mtoups> but it would circumvent the current system
[07-08-2003 01:20] <micah> unless mailman was modified
[07-08-2003 01:20] <ski> oh hell yes on the $150 for sarai colo
[07-08-2003 01:20] <micah> ok
[07-08-2003 01:20] * ski thinks hes caught up
[07-08-2003 01:20] <mtoups> so spamtrap is basically equivalant to setting the hold and discard threshholds equal and archiving the spam
[07-08-2003 01:20] <mtoups> so... which of those two items is important?
[07-08-2003 01:21] <zapATIsta> micah, heard from stef at all?
[07-08-2003 01:21] <mtoups> (note that auto-discarded spam is still logged in /var/log/mailman/vette)
[07-08-2003 01:22] <micah> zapATIsta: not yet, she was going home, then to speakeasy
[07-08-2003 01:23] * micah is eager to clean the archives of spam
[07-08-2003 01:23] <zapATIsta> ok.
[07-08-2003 01:23] <mtoups> micah: oh right, me too
[07-08-2003 01:23] <zapATIsta> somoene's asking in www-tech if stallman being down is a known. I'll reply to her and just say people are getting to it.
[07-08-2003 01:24] <zapATIsta>
[07-08-2003 01:24] <micah> www-tech?
[07-08-2003 01:24] <mtoups> www-features
[07-08-2003 01:25] <zapATIsta> I tiyped wrong. [IMC-Tech]
[07-08-2003 01:25] <micah> :)_
[07-08-2003 01:25] <mtoups> oh
[07-08-2003 01:25] <micah> ok, well... shall we end the meeting?
[07-08-2003 01:25] <micah> close the log and go home?
[07-08-2003 01:26] <mtoups> dns?
[07-08-2003 01:26] <micah> ah dns
[07-08-2003 01:26] <micah> what about it?
[07-08-2003 01:26] <micah> nobody has been doing dns work recently
[07-08-2003 01:26] <ski> where are all the dns admins hiding?
[07-08-2003 01:26] <ski> ahh
[07-08-2003 01:26] <mtoups> hmm well yeah we have issues with the secondaries
[07-08-2003 01:26] <ski> that explains it
[07-08-2003 01:26] <micah> well cat.org.au should be fixed now
[07-08-2003 01:27] <jb> matze and i in bcn would be ok to have a dns account.
[07-08-2003 01:27] <micah> jb: good ideas
[07-08-2003 01:27] <jb> hehe jb-homepage.indymedia.org
[07-08-2003 01:27] * ski twinkles at the idea of fresh blood
[07-08-2003 01:27] <micah> jb: where is matze anyway?
[07-08-2003 01:28] <jb> he's probably lying dead drunk on a plaza round
[07-08-2003 01:28] <jb> around
[07-08-2003 01:28] <micah> haha
[07-08-2003 01:28] <mtoups> is ns.riseup.net running bind?
[07-08-2003 01:28] <micah> mtoups
[07-08-2003 01:28] <micah> no
[07-08-2003 01:28] <micah> ns1 is
[07-08-2003 01:28] <micah>
[07-08-2003 01:28] <mtoups> i've adminned djbdns before but
[07-08-2003 01:28] <mtoups> oh ok heh
[07-08-2003 01:29] <mtoups> but yeah i'm not sure why it isn't answering authoritatively with fs is down but... it should be
[07-08-2003 01:29] <jb> hey why is ns*.riseup being classified as a loose serer or something?
[07-08-2003 01:29] <jb> s/serer/server
[07-08-2003 01:29] <ski> imo 99% of the dns admin work that needs to be done is a simple copy and paste. either a A or a CNAME, and you can just copy the format from the rest of the file.
[07-08-2003 01:31] <micah> yug, i dont like djbdns
[07-08-2003 01:32] <micah> jb: loose server?
[07-08-2003 01:32] <micah> jb: oh lame server
[07-08-2003 01:32] <jb> sip
[07-08-2003 01:32] <micah> jb: hehe, I dont know why, I think that is normal, but I need to ask a DNS pro
[07-08-2003 01:32] * micah is stuck in bind4 days
[07-08-2003 01:33] <micah> jb: you can tell matze i set ypou guys up, you should subscribe to dns@
[07-08-2003 01:33] <mtoups> no i do not think that is normal
[07-08-2003 01:33] <mtoups> from dnstracer(8):
[07-08-2003 01:33] <micah> mtoups:
[07-08-2003 01:33] <mtoups> It detects so called lame servers, which are name-servers which has been told to have
[07-08-2003 01:33] <mtoups> information about a certain domain, but don't have this information.
[07-08-2003 01:33] <jb> ok
[07-08-2003 01:33] <micah> mtoups: what is "it detects"?
[07-08-2003 01:33] <mtoups> which means the registrar claims that ns1.riseup answers authoritatively for indymedia.org but it doesn't
[07-08-2003 01:34] <micah> interesting
[07-08-2003 01:34] <mtoups> but that only seems to be a problem when fs is down
[07-08-2003 01:34] <micah> I know ns1.riseup has the zone files and receives regular zone transfers when things are changed
[07-08-2003 01:34] <mtoups> $ dnstracer indymedia.org
[07-08-2003 01:34] <mtoups> Tracing to indymedia.org via 205.201.1.20, timeout 15 seconds
[07-08-2003 01:34] <mtoups> 205.201.1.20 (205.201.1.20)
[07-08-2003 01:34] <mtoups> |\___ E5.NSTLD.COM [org] (192.12.94.34)
[07-08-2003 01:34] <mtoups> | |\___ NS1.RISEUP.NET [indymedia.org] (216.162.197.233) Got authoritative answer
[07-08-2003 01:34] <mtoups> | |\___ FS.FREESPEECH.org [indymedia.org] (206.168.174.3) Got authoritative answer
[07-08-2003 01:34] <mtoups> | \___ BLACK.CAT.ORG.AU [indymedia.org] (203.57.122.1) Got authoritative answer
[07-08-2003 01:34] <micah> whoa
[07-08-2003 01:35] <micah> so wait, they are all authoritative
[07-08-2003 01:35] * ski is going bowling
[07-08-2003 01:35] <ski> peace everyone
[07-08-2003 01:35] <micah> seeya ski
[07-08-2003 01:35] <zapATIsta> ski, taking skinheads?
[07-08-2003 01:35] <zapATIsta> laterz
[07-08-2003 01:35] <jb> seeya ski
[07-08-2003 01:36] <ski> ati - actually, funny you should mention that, i'm taking my friend bert whos head i shaved about a month ago. hes an asian nazi, real cool guy.
[07-08-2003 01:36] <mtoups> micah: yeah its fine now but when fs went down it wasn't ... i'm not sure why
[07-08-2003 01:37] <jb> what is the site, dnscheck.org or somethig
[07-08-2003 01:37] * zapATIsta is a nonracist skin since 98ish.
[07-08-2003 01:37] * billf has joined #meeting
[07-08-2003 01:37] <jb> showed that we had bogus dns because of a lame
[07-08-2003 01:37] <billf> dns on che is fixed
[07-08-2003 01:37] <billf> fyi
[07-08-2003 01:37] <micah> hey billf
[07-08-2003 01:37] * ski is a seasonal skin who's out the door
[07-08-2003 01:38] <micah> billf: what was wrong with dns on che?
[07-08-2003 01:38] <billf> hi.. 4.2.2.2 can't be used as a dns server from che anymore
[07-08-2003 01:38] <mtoups> later ski
[07-08-2003 01:38] <micah> billf: oh really?
[07-08-2003 01:38] <micah> billf: that might be causing problems elsewhere, I've used that one a lot
[07-08-2003 01:38] <billf> billf
[07-08-2003 01:38] <billf> whoops
[07-08-2003 01:38] <micah> micah
[07-08-2003 01:38] <micah> what kinds of problems was it causing?
[07-08-2003 01:39] <billf> [ 27 ]$ dig @4.2.2.2 26.105.234.216.in-addr.arpa /usr/local/ircd/etc
[07-08-2003 01:39] <billf> ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: REFUSED, id: 57354
[07-08-2003 01:39] <billf> [ 28 ]$ dig @168.103.24.1 26.105.234.216.in-addr.arpa /usr/local/ircd/etc
[07-08-2003 01:39] <billf> ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 44712
[07-08-2003 01:39] <jb> http://www.dnsreport.com/tools/dnsreport.ch?domain=indymedia.org
[07-08-2003 01:39] <billf> REFUSED made it stop the search as well
[07-08-2003 01:39] <billf> so it didn't even try the next one
[07-08-2003 01:39] <micah> billf: weird, it works from other servers
[07-08-2003 01:40] <billf> i hate running with only one recursive resolver
[07-08-2003 01:40] <billf> so we should either setup a localhost resolver (always a good idea with an irc server) or find another one to use
[07-08-2003 01:40] <billf> i can make 37.snoogans.org available to it, if need be
[07-08-2003 01:41] <micah> jb: interesting site!
[07-08-2003 01:41] <micah> billf: it is trivial to setup a local caching nameserver
[07-08-2003 01:41] <micah> apt-get install bind
[07-08-2003 01:41] <billf> yeah, i'll do that
[07-08-2003 01:42] <micah> echo "nameserver 127.0.0.1" > /etc/resolv.conf
[07-08-2003 01:42] <micah> err
[07-08-2003 01:42] <micah> better put it at the top
[07-08-2003 01:42] <billf> yep
[07-08-2003 01:42] <micah> the debian package is setup by default to be a caching nameserver
[07-08-2003 01:42] <billf> are there general purpose resolvers at communitycolo
[07-08-2003 01:42] <billf> we'd be good net.citizens if we use them as forwarders and only recurse if they're down
[07-08-2003 01:43] <billf> also, is there a way to view the packing slip of a package
[07-08-2003 01:43] <billf> (like where it installs the files)
[07-08-2003 01:44] <micah> mtoups: perhaps the SOA expire failure is it?
[07-08-2003 01:44] <micah> billf: that would be good
[07-08-2003 01:44] <mtoups> micah: ooh maybe so
[07-08-2003 01:44] <micah> billf: before it is installed, or after?
[07-08-2003 01:45] <billf> micah: either
[07-08-2003 01:45] <billf> i've already installed it, but i have no idea where it put the bloody config files
[07-08-2003 01:45] <billf> (cough*it'd be in /usr/local like everything else in freebsd ports...*cough)
[07-08-2003 01:46] <micah> billf: dpkg -S <packagename> and dpkg -s <packagename> give you good info
[07-08-2003 01:46] <micah> billf: or you can use ar
[07-08-2003 01:46] <micah> billf: all debian config files are in /etc
[07-08-2003 01:46] <micah> so /etc/bind
[07-08-2003 01:46] <billf> ok
[07-08-2003 01:47] <billf> as opposed to /etc/namedb like on other systems
[07-08-2003 01:47] <micah> or /var/named
[07-08-2003 01:47] <billf> yeah
[07-08-2003 01:47] <micah> or /var/spool/named
[07-08-2003 01:47] <micah> or /etc/named.boot
[07-08-2003 01:47] <micah> or /etc/named.conf
[07-08-2003 01:47] <billf> /var/spool/named is scary
[07-08-2003 01:47] <micah> or /named/is/crazy
[07-08-2003 01:47] <billf> billf> are there general purpose resolvers at communitycolo
[07-08-2003 01:47] <micah> the debian filesystem hierarchy is pretty defined, and is based
[07-08-2003 01:49] <micah> sorry, I mean, it adheres to the FHS
[07-08-2003 01:49] <micah> mtoups: I bet that is it
[07-08-2003 01:49] <micah> mtoups: the secndaries consider the zone to be stale after that time
[07-08-2003 01:49] <mtoups> ahhhh yep
[07-08-2003 01:50] <mtoups> that explains why it only happens when fs is down
[07-08-2003 01:51] <mtoups> oh btw
[07-08-2003 01:51] <mtoups> i dunno if anyone here is in eastern north america
[07-08-2003 01:51] <mtoups> but in 10 days or so pittsburgh IMC is having an open house / IMC party
[07-08-2003 01:51] * billf slaps micah around
[07-08-2003 01:52] <mtoups> free food, live music, IMC videos, folks from pittsburgh, cleveland, dc, ithaca (heh), nyc maybe
[07-08-2003 01:52] <mtoups> so tell your friends
[07-08-2003 01:53] <rabble> you covering tickets from south america? i'd be happy to join the party
[07-08-2003 01:54] <xmux> I'll hide in rabbles suitcase
[07-08-2003 01:54] <micah> ok, I just fixed the SOA problems
[07-08-2003 01:55] <micah> we'll see if that fixes the overall problems
[07-08-2003 01:58] <mtoups> hmmm supposedly i'm going on a road trip to valpariso with this chilean girl i met at the CAFTA demos
[07-08-2003 01:58] <mtoups> one of these days
[07-08-2003 01:59] <micah> cool
[07-08-2003 01:59] <zapATIsta> kewl
[07-08-2003 01:59] <mtoups> probably won't make it in time for the general strike next week
[07-08-2003 02:00] <zapATIsta> I'm just going to benning and back this nov, and dc a couple times to testify against police chief ramsey.
[07-08-2003 02:00] <mtoups> oh that is something i wanted to ask
[07-08-2003 02:00] * zapATIsta is hoping for a general strike to come to eeuu.
[07-08-2003 02:00] <mtoups> zapATIsta: you going to miami? i haven't heard anything about an IMC presence yet
[07-08-2003 02:01] <zapATIsta> If I can do both I want to go to ftaa as well, but if I have to choose just some days, it's gotta be heavily on the soa side.
[07-08-2003 02:02] <zapATIsta> So far there's one group that's going late to ftaa and leaving soa early. I might try to go down to miami with one group of folks and back here with a different group, if they'll agree to let me do that cheaply/easily
[07-08-2003 02:02] <mtoups> btw peep the pgh IMC space / party venue :
[07-08-2003 02:02] <zapATIsta> that'll make it easier to be at all of both.
[07-08-2003 02:02] <mtoups> should we start making plans for miami IMC coverage? i'm sure plenty of us are going
[07-08-2003 02:03] <mtoups> there is this cool "civic media center" in gainesville that we could get in touch with
[07-08-2003 02:05] <zapATIsta> kewl.
[07-08-2003 02:05] <zapATIsta> I'm pretty sure some of the peeps from atlanta imc are planning on getting there early and staying at least til they have to go up to benning.
[07-08-2003 02:06] <zapATIsta> in fact, they'll probably have a space there in columbus ga throughout.
[07-08-2003 02:06] <micah> mtoups: nice space!
[07-08-2003 02:09] <mtoups> zapATIsta: actually i was referring to miami... i assumed atlanta IMC would be all over benning again
[07-08-2003 02:11] <zapATIsta> yeah, I'm saying I think they're also going to try and cover some of miami.
[07-08-2003 02:11] <zapATIsta> it's apparently a fairly short daytrip between benning and miami
[07-08-2003 02:11] <mtoups> oh cool
[07-08-2003 02:12] <mtoups> well ft. benning is close to the florida panhandle but getting to miami is a trip...
[07-08-2003 02:14] <zapATIsta> yup.
[07-08-2003 02:14] <zapATIsta> friend of mine found a cheap one way to miami a couple days before ftaa, he's gonna just meander toward benning after that.
[07-08-2003 02:15] <micah> ugh my head is killing me, and I want to go to bed
[07-08-2003 02:15] <micah> but stefani hasn't showed up online yet...
[07-08-2003 02:16] <zapATIsta> no rest for the weary
[07-08-2003 02:16] * zapATIsta is listening to old Andres Segovia LPs to keep his chops up.
[07-08-2003 02:17] <micah> jeez
[07-08-2003 02:18] <micah> mtoups: I emailed sean at galaxy earlier today telling him that we had the proposal and we have to have the meeting for it
[07-08-2003 02:18] <micah> and we could get him the money soon
[07-08-2003 02:18] <mtoups> good good
[07-08-2003 02:18] <micah> so he just sent me an email as if we didn't get that
[07-08-2003 02:18] <micah> s/we/he
[07-08-2003 02:18] <mtoups> heh
[07-08-2003 02:18] <micah> he is such a crack smoker
[07-08-2003 02:18] <mtoups> weirdness
[07-08-2003 02:18] <micah> I'm going to send him the money now, if there is a problem with the proposal then we'll deal with it
[07-08-2003 02:19] <micah> I just can't handle it being unplugged again
[07-08-2003 02:19] <mtoups> sure
[07-08-2003 02:19] <mtoups> you've given plenty of notice i think
[07-08-2003 02:19] <zapATIsta> the only email I got was telling me to run outside in the rain, take off my pants and sing "I'm a little teacup"
[07-08-2003 02:19] <mtoups> oh here's a thought
[07-08-2003 02:19] <zapATIsta> Lo and behold it IS raining.
[07-08-2003 02:19] <micah> hahah
[07-08-2003 02:20] <mtoups> maybe while we've got the communication gates open we can get the reverse DNS to resolve to sarai.indymedia.org or mail.indymedia.org instead of 207-229-92-161.cortland.com ?
[07-08-2003 02:20] <micah> yeah I was thinking that too
[07-08-2003 02:25] <jb> gotta sleep
[07-08-2003 02:25] <jb> later'
[07-08-2003 02:25] <micah> sleep -- ZaPata - 07 Aug 2003
[07-08-2003 00:02] <zicah> agenda we came up with:
[07-08-2003 00:02] <zapATIsta> micah's determined to sit last
[07-08-2003 00:02] <zicah> 1. proposal for galaxy-7 sarai hosting
[07-08-2003 00:02] <zicah> 2. server problems
[07-08-2003 00:02] <zicah> 3. maybe a short explanation of the severe abuse today
[07-08-2003 00:03] <zicah> any others?
[07-08-2003 00:03] <Zapata> not from me
[07-08-2003 00:03] <zicah> ok, moving right along then
[07-08-2003 00:03] * zicah changes topic to 'proposal for galaxy-7 sarai hosting'
[07-08-2003 00:03] <zicah> you guys saw my message to tech about giving galaxy-7 $150?
[07-08-2003 00:04] <Zapata> I did yeah...
[07-08-2003 00:04] <zicah> any problems with it?
[07-08-2003 00:04] * zicah is finding the link for the log
[07-08-2003 00:04] <Zapata> I don't have any problems with it...
[07-08-2003 00:04] <zicah> http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-tech/2003-July/011624.html
[07-08-2003 00:05] <zicah> it might be good to talk about thinking up a more sustainable amount and regular in the future
[07-08-2003 00:05] <Zapata> yeah
[07-08-2003 00:05] <zicah> but if nobody has a problem with the proposal, then it is considered passed at the meeting, and following process it is essentially passed as long as nobody has a problem on the list afterwards
[07-08-2003 00:05] <Zapata> ok
[07-08-2003 00:06] * zicah changes topic to 'server problems'
[07-08-2003 00:06] <zicah> so, ahimsa, stallman, stray
[07-08-2003 00:06] <zicah> ahimsa seems to be solved for now, at least until the upstream router purges their ICMP block
[07-08-2003 00:06] <zapATIsta> kewl
[07-08-2003 00:07] <zicah> quick results on that, thanks to jebba
[07-08-2003 00:07] <zicah> and a few gaffs by the colo people
[07-08-2003 00:07] <zicah> stefani is going to go to check on stallman pretty soon now
[07-08-2003 00:07] <zicah> she was stuck at work dealing with DCOM virus
[07-08-2003 00:07] <Zapata> any clue what stallman's problem is?
[07-08-2003 00:08] <zicah> no idea, it froze like this a week or so ago also
[07-08-2003 00:08] <Zapata> ok...
[07-08-2003 00:08] <zicah> but the raid card was too much of a distraction so we didn't track down what caused it
[07-08-2003 00:09] <zicah> it could have froze again.
[07-08-2003 00:09] <zicah> I think that apache/php need to be upgraded on stallman to patch some security holes
[07-08-2003 00:09] <zicah> and a new kernel is in order I think, but new kernels on stallman are scary
[07-08-2003 00:09] <zicah> because of the raid card...
[07-08-2003 00:09] <zicah> but I am willing to give it a shot as long as someone is down there to boot into a different kernel if it fails
[07-08-2003 00:09] <zicah> that poormachine has been running HARD for a long time, and has been relatively stable
[07-08-2003 00:09] <zicah> i just hope it isn't a raid card issue agan
[07-08-2003 00:10] <zicah> oh, also... sarai was rebooted last night for some reason
[07-08-2003 00:10] <zapATIsta> yup
[07-08-2003 00:10] <zicah> so was the other machine that risuep has at that colo, so I expect that to be the reason
[07-08-2003 00:10] <zicah> now stray...
[07-08-2003 00:11] <zicah> what i know is a new kernel was compiled which took out support for the disks on there
[07-08-2003 00:11] <zicah> and then they took the disks out
[07-08-2003 00:11] <zicah> and then they put them back and and are trying to copy things over
[07-08-2003 00:11] <zicah> I dont know where things are at now, it sounds crazy to me
[07-08-2003 00:11] <Zapata> well...
[07-08-2003 00:12] <Zapata> I heard they had some problems...
[07-08-2003 00:12] <Zapata> like databases that were out of sync...
[07-08-2003 00:12] <Zapata> they're thinking of a way to fix that too...
[07-08-2003 00:12] <zicah> yeah, xmux tried to get things online for argentina, and put up an old database
[07-08-2003 00:12] <zicah> although it was the only database that existed
[07-08-2003 00:12] <zicah> so you can't blame him
[07-08-2003 00:12] <zapATIsta> rules out "collisions" then
[07-08-2003 00:13] <zicah> yeah, he can fix it, its just a mess overall
[07-08-2003 00:14] <Zapata> ok...
[07-08-2003 00:14] <zicah> so, moving on, perhaps a record meeting tonight
[07-08-2003 00:14] * zicah changes topic to 'abuses today'
[07-08-2003 00:15] <zicah> I guess we talked about ahimsa
[07-08-2003 00:15] <Zapata> well...
[07-08-2003 00:15] <Zapata> they had a ddos attack...
[07-08-2003 00:15] <zicah> yeah, it was directed at italy
[07-08-2003 00:15] <Zapata> right...
[07-08-2003 00:15] <Zapata> using icmp requests...
[07-08-2003 00:16] * keysjrw has joined #meeting
[07-08-2003 00:16] <Zapata> and there is nothing that generally can be done against attacks like that?
[07-08-2003 00:16] <zapATIsta> many machines I presume?
[07-08-2003 00:16] <zicah> not so easy to track down
[07-08-2003 00:16] <zicah> well, they had the upstream router drop ICMP that was directed to that IP address
[07-08-2003 00:16] <zicah> which effectively stops it
[07-08-2003 00:16] <zicah> zapATIsta: yep, many
[07-08-2003 00:16] <zicah> keysjrw: howdy
[07-08-2003 00:16] <Zapata> but that's an ad hoc solution...
[07-08-2003 00:16] <keysjrw> howdy, anything I can do?
[07-08-2003 00:17] <zicah> zapata: yeah, I am not sure what else can be done in that situation
[07-08-2003 00:17] <Zapata> ok...
[07-08-2003 00:17] <zicah> keysjrw: we are finishing up our meeting here, maybe we can talk about that after?
[07-08-2003 00:17] <zapATIsta> yeah, we already have consensus AGAINST baseball bats and showing up at peoples' houses.
[07-08-2003 00:18] <zicah> so, yeah... thats the bandwidth stealing thing
[07-08-2003 00:18] <Zapata> ok...
[07-08-2003 00:18] <Zapata> the bandwidth stealing thing...
[07-08-2003 00:18] <Zapata> apparently some imcs had big copyrighted popular music video posts...
[07-08-2003 00:18] <zicah> I dont really understand some of the solutions posted by Alsterwassermann
[07-08-2003 00:19] <zicah> 1. wget -r his sites & delete all the media he posted; whip up some
[07-08-2003 00:19] <zicah> P> perl/awk/sed to extract the urls
[07-08-2003 00:19] <zicah> oh... that is to find which IMC sites have the media
[07-08-2003 00:19] <Zapata> yeah
[07-08-2003 00:19] <Zapata> but this only works for this case...
[07-08-2003 00:19] <zicah> it looks like jb cleaned up some of that
[07-08-2003 00:19] <Zapata> from the moment I started doing indymedia work, I suspected something like this would happen....
[07-08-2003 00:20] <zicah> yeah, as does adding the block from his address
[07-08-2003 00:20] <zicah> me too
[07-08-2003 00:20] <Zapata> suppose someone posts something to an indymedia site that isn't checked anymore by a collective...
[07-08-2003 00:20] <zicah> people have resisted for a long time user registration
[07-08-2003 00:20] <zapATIsta> do we still make huge thumbnails of videos, or was that just an old active thing that's been long since dealt with?
[07-08-2003 00:20] <Zapata> we may never find out...
[07-08-2003 00:20] <zicah> we don't make thumbnails of videos, but of pictures, yes
[07-08-2003 00:20] <zicah> Zapata: such IMC sites should go away
[07-08-2003 00:20] <zapATIsta> ok, good.
[07-08-2003 00:21] <Zapata> yeah, but that's outside of imc tech...
[07-08-2003 00:21] <zapATIsta> weren't audios and videos automatically creating "thumbnails" that had to be carved out periodically?
[07-08-2003 00:21] <zicah> right, but imc tech might be able to find those IMCs which are inactive and bring them to the attention of new-imc to deal with it
[07-08-2003 00:21] <zicah> zapATIsta: oh yeah, I think that was fixed
[07-08-2003 00:21] <Zapata> yeah... true...
[07-08-2003 00:22] <zapATIsta> good. I was thinking that would compound our probs.
[07-08-2003 00:22] <Zapata> and also, we should inform imcs that they should watch things like this...
[07-08-2003 00:22] * xmux has joined #meeting
[07-08-2003 00:22] <zicah> there are a number of sites that still have this stuff posted
[07-08-2003 00:22] <zicah> hey xmux
[07-08-2003 00:22] <Zapata> not all imcs may be aware of the nature this problem...
[07-08-2003 00:22] <zicah> Zapata: very true
[07-08-2003 00:22] <xmux> hi
[07-08-2003 00:22] <zicah> xmux: we are talking about the bandwidth stealer right now
[07-08-2003 00:23] <zicah> xmux: but do you want to give a quick update on stray's status?
[07-08-2003 00:23] <zicah> if you know anything more
[07-08-2003 00:23] <xmux> I probably have less information that you do
[07-08-2003 00:23] <zicah> so bandwidth stealer: 1. we need to compile a list of all IMCs that were affected and contact them to alert them of the problem
[07-08-2003 00:24] <Zapata> and generally raise awareness on this issue...
[07-08-2003 00:24] <zicah> 2. we can block what we can, but we need to discuss this more
[07-08-2003 00:24] <zapATIsta> the ones that are off server like stl and mke might have to find out just from google searching instead of wget and stuff, huh?
[07-08-2003 00:24] <zicah> zapATIsta: yeah
[07-08-2003 00:24] <zicah> so it seems to me that we should construct an email, and get a list of the IMCs affected and contact them
[07-08-2003 00:25] * mtoups has joined #meeting
[07-08-2003 00:25] <zicah> mtoups
[07-08-2003 00:25] <Zapata> ok...
[07-08-2003 00:25] * zicah is now known as micah
[07-08-2003 00:25] <mtoups> hey, sorry i'm late, is there a log?
[07-08-2003 00:25] <mtoups> heh, zicah
[07-08-2003 00:25] <micah> mtoups: yeah zapata is keeping it
[07-08-2003 00:25] <micah> mtoups: it was originally just three of us so it was going quickly
[07-08-2003 00:26] <micah> so I guess someone needs to do those things
[07-08-2003 00:26] <micah> keysjrw: want to do something?
[07-08-2003 00:26] <keysjrw> sure
[07-08-2003 00:26] <micah> keysjrw: are you subscribed to imc-tech?
[07-08-2003 00:26] <keysjrw> i was, think I am, but not positive
[07-08-2003 00:27] <micah> keysjrw: ok, well check out this thread:
[07-08-2003 00:27] <micah> http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-tech/2003-August/011633.html
[07-08-2003 00:27] <micah> Alsterwassermann suggests finding all the sites that were affected by using google
[07-08-2003 00:27] <micah> we need a list of all the IMCs that were affected
[07-08-2003 00:27] <micah> so we can contact them about this problem
[07-08-2003 00:28] <keysjrw> so, y'all are doing stallman, and you need the non stllman, or all and stallman?
[07-08-2003 00:28] <micah> mtoups/xmux: we approved the $150 for galaxy-7 for sarai, the proposal I made on the list, if you have anything to say about it, you had bette rnow
[07-08-2003 00:29] <micah> keysjrw: yeah, I believe jb took care of all the stallman sites
[07-08-2003 00:29] <keysjrw> k
[07-08-2003 00:29] <micah> keysjrw: but I think we ought to have a list of all so we can contact them all
[07-08-2003 00:29] <mtoups> micah: i'm all for it, and maybe this is a good time to mention that they needn't ever unplug it again (they feel bad but let's nicely remind em
)
[07-08-2003 00:29] <micah> keysjrw: because we need to raise awareness with all the IMCs that this has happened
[07-08-2003 00:29] <keysjrw> no doubt
[07-08-2003 00:29] <micah> mtoups: if you can think of a good way to say that, I will
[07-08-2003 00:29] <xmux> No, I have nothing to say against that
[07-08-2003 00:30] <micah> keysjrw: ok, cool, can you post a list to imc-tech to that thread, and then we'll put a letter together to all of them about it
[07-08-2003 00:30] * zapATIsta remembers switching cisco routers out occasionally at colos and wondering how this kind of stuff keeps from happening a LOT more often. :
[07-08-2003 00:31] <keysjrw> k
[07-08-2003 00:31] <mtoups> micah: i'm thinking something like "hey we're happy to support you guys and are totally ready to help out, please make sure to let us know what you need from us in the future and try to avoid any system downtime" ?
[07-08-2003 00:32] <micah> so the other thing that has been happening a lot in the abuse department, is the virus that comes from admin@lists.indymedia.org and contains an attachment. I wrote to listwork today because I blocked it at the postfix level, I am worried about it, so I want people to be aware
[07-08-2003 00:32] <micah> today alone it was sent I think 83 times to people
[07-08-2003 00:32] <micah> mtoups: ooh good,
[07-08-2003 00:33] <zapATIsta> yikes. in the various lists? Or just a few certain ones or what?
[07-08-2003 00:33] * micah changes topic to 'other stuff'
[07-08-2003 00:33] <micah> zapATIsta: not sure where they were going
[07-08-2003 00:33] <micah> I know I've received a couple
[07-08-2003 00:33] <micah> I dont know if you've all seen it, but jb put together a list archive search: http://sarai.indymedia.org/~jb/search.cgi
[07-08-2003 00:34] <micah> hmm, what else...
[07-08-2003 00:34] <micah> mtoups: any movement on the 2.12 upgrade?
[07-08-2003 00:34] * zapATIsta was wondering when THAT kind of stuff was gonna begin ever since virii started coming "from" official microsoft depts.
[07-08-2003 00:35] <zapATIsta> zapata was trying to help me fix a newswire that's been stuck on july20th since almost as long.
[07-08-2003 00:36] <zapATIsta> wondering if anyone's already had that happen in old active and remembers how to overcome it.
[07-08-2003 00:36] <zapATIsta> stlimc restarted apache but that didn't do the trick either.
[07-08-2003 00:36] <mtoups> micah: yeah now that i'm back home i'm ready to go for it. it'll involve building python 2.2.3-3 packages and i'll want to test that on kropotkin to make sure it doesn't break other things
[07-08-2003 00:36] <micah> hrm, I dont remember... we need to get all old-active sites moved to something else
[07-08-2003 00:36] <mtoups> on that topic...
[07-08-2003 00:36] <micah> mtoups: cool
[07-08-2003 00:36] <Zapata> yeah... and we need a campaign to do that...
[07-08-2003 00:37] <mtoups> we've got a new server in pittsburgh that can host sf-active sites
[07-08-2003 00:37] <zapATIsta> yeah, zapata said he'd help me if we pick mir
[07-08-2003 00:37] <micah> Zapata: well, seattle was going to switch to dada or sf-active, but they never decided on which
[07-08-2003 00:37] <mtoups> i'm kind of waiting for the new sf-active rev to be released but new orleans is already hosted there
[07-08-2003 00:37] <micah> mtoups: cool
[07-08-2003 00:37] <Zapata> micah: we should perhaps email all active imcs...
[07-08-2003 00:37] <zapATIsta> frankly it's been just me as the tech rep for mke for so long I think I'm gonna just decide that on my own instead of waiting for some ethereal consensus out there from people who "may someday join"
[07-08-2003 00:37] <micah> zapata: not a bad idea
[07-08-2003 00:38] <Zapata> and also check wether the non-responders have active collectives....
[07-08-2003 00:38] <mtoups> Zapata: brian (aka ski) emailed all active IMCs a few months back
[07-08-2003 00:38] <micah> zapata: although we dont want a flood of people... we need one to test, get bugs out, then move to another, then once it is streamlined...
[07-08-2003 00:38] <mtoups> where "active" means the codebase
[07-08-2003 00:38] <zapATIsta> that was just about getting a contact email current though if I remember right.
[07-08-2003 00:38] <Zapata> mtoups: perhaps a targeted campaign.... 5 at a time... detailing codebase options... with directions where to go for support etc...
[07-08-2003 00:38] <micah> oh right, he did
[07-08-2003 00:39] <Zapata> and perhaps in cooperation with the different codebase developers...
[07-08-2003 00:39] * zapATIsta would love to be one of the first 5 guinea pigs, er uh I mean conscripts.
[07-08-2003 00:39] <micah> next time he shows up ponline I'll query him
[07-08-2003 00:39] <mtoups> Zapata: i am starting with IMCs i have contacts with already ... new orleans, i've talked to cleveland about it, and pittsburgh needs to upgrade from the old sf-active to the new version
[07-08-2003 00:40] <zapATIsta> who's got the definitive suggestion for which codebase mke oughta upgrade to if stl's hosting us and running debian now.
[07-08-2003 00:40] <zapATIsta> the big issue all along was that they were running redhat 7.0
[07-08-2003 00:40] <micah> I'm not sure about stl, who is managing that server?
[07-08-2003 00:40] <micah> mtoups: are any of those on stallman?
[07-08-2003 00:40] <Zapata> ati: didn't you want to switch hosting as well?>
[07-08-2003 00:41] <mtoups> micah: cleveland is currently on stallman and itching to move
[07-08-2003 00:41] <mtoups> (they didn't even have a shell on stallman until last month)
[07-08-2003 00:41] <micah> mtoups: howcome they want to move, disk space problems?
[07-08-2003 00:41] <mtoups> micah: um maybe cuz active sucks
[07-08-2003 00:41] <micah> mtoups: well.. heh, they actually DID
[07-08-2003 00:42] <mtoups> right but the current cleveland people didn't have it i guess
[07-08-2003 00:42] <micah> mtoups: they had a shell and then whoever had access to it didn't bother telling anyone I guess or disappeared
[07-08-2003 00:42] <micah> mtoups: ahh, of course.. well, we are talking about trying to get all stallman active sites to not be active any more
[07-08-2003 00:42] <micah> possibly on stallman
[07-08-2003 00:42] <mtoups> right on
[07-08-2003 00:42] <micah> but if people want to move off of stallman, thats fine
[07-08-2003 00:42] <mtoups> i guess i meant they are itching to move off active
[07-08-2003 00:43] <micah> ah right
[07-08-2003 00:43] <Zapata> micah: you mean that's even better
[07-08-2003 00:43] <micah> mtoups: perhaps they can be the first stallman test case
[07-08-2003 00:43] <micah> Zapata: hehe
[07-08-2003 00:43] <micah> anyone know what others experiences with running more than one code-vbase on a server are?
[07-08-2003 00:43] <micah> like running sf-active, dada and mir?
[07-08-2003 00:43] <micah> are there any mir sites that run anything else?
[07-08-2003 00:43] <Zapata> hmmm
[07-08-2003 00:43] <mtoups> hmmm zero ran dada and freeform at the same time i heard
[07-08-2003 00:44] <Zapata> mir sites usually run seperate publich and admin sites...
[07-08-2003 00:44] <mtoups> micah: cleveland might not be the best idea since i don't think their techs are very well connected to us
[07-08-2003 00:44] <micah> yeah
[07-08-2003 00:44] <Zapata> there are no mir admin sites that I know of that also run dada or sf-active...
[07-08-2003 00:44] <micah> mtoups: true
[07-08-2003 00:44] <Zapata> but doesn't ahimsa run dada and sf-active?
[07-08-2003 00:44] <micah> yeah, it does
[07-08-2003 00:44] <micah> and it seems to funciton ok
[07-08-2003 00:45] <micah> except for the ddos
[07-08-2003 00:45] <zapATIsta> Zapata, possibly switching hosting, but not sure because we're one of stl's first sites to host besides themselves. They might be rather attached to having us. Although they're not majorly communicative with us either.
[07-08-2003 00:45] <Zapata> ok
[07-08-2003 00:45] <mtoups> btw as a side note if anyone ever needs to convert a postnuke site to sf-active you can find the magic sql query here: http://indymedia.23rdward.org/pipermail/imc-neworleans/2003-July/000059.html
[07-08-2003 00:45] <micah> any thing else anyone wants to talk about now?
[07-08-2003 00:45] <micah> how is everyone's summer going?
[07-08-2003 00:45] <Zapata> and there are scripts to go from active to mir/dada/sf-active
[07-08-2003 00:46] <Zapata> hottest summer of my life...
[07-08-2003 00:46] <micah> from what I know the active-->sf-active script needs some work
[07-08-2003 00:46] <mtoups> hmm i've spent time with five different IMCs so far this summer
[07-08-2003 00:46] * zapATIsta would love to move mke onto stallman if there's ever enough room.
[07-08-2003 00:46] <mtoups> oh what's the status on images.indymedia.org these days? and can all codebases use it?
[07-08-2003 00:46] <Zapata> hmmm
[07-08-2003 00:46] <Zapata> mir may not... not sure...
[07-08-2003 00:46] <micah> yeah it is certainly available
[07-08-2003 00:47] <micah> paranode
[07-08-2003 00:47] <Zapata> does images.indymedia.org need to have all media files in 1 directory?
[07-08-2003 00:47] <mtoups> maybe we should take a look at DNS issues at some point
[07-08-2003 00:47] <xmux> Zapata: uhg
[07-08-2003 00:47] <micah> zapata: no they dont
[07-08-2003 00:48] <Zapata> ok...
[07-08-2003 00:48] <Zapata> that was loudeye then....
[07-08-2003 00:48] <micah> zapata: you can make subdirectories if you want
[07-08-2003 00:48] <Zapata> in that case mir supports it as well...
[07-08-2003 00:48] <micah> zapata: no, loudeye was ok with that too
[07-08-2003 00:48] <micah> zapata: the problem was that all the sites using active dumped everything into one directory
[07-08-2003 00:48] <xmux> How do media files get onto images?
[07-08-2003 00:48] <Zapata> but I don't think paranode is used by the mir sites...
[07-08-2003 00:48] * zapATIsta thinks we got used to loving loudeye.
[07-08-2003 00:48] <micah> zapata: so things were a total mess.. .but if you start from scratch and make the appropriate directories it should be fine
[07-08-2003 00:49] <Zapata> which is something we can work on... there are 3 mir sites using stallman...
[07-08-2003 00:49] <micah> xmux: via ftp script
[07-08-2003 00:49] <mtoups> oh, i have a quick question
[07-08-2003 00:49] <xmux> micah: Is it only for static content?
[07-08-2003 00:49] <mtoups> it seems no one is moderating imc-tech@lists.indy anymore
[07-08-2003 00:49] <mtoups> or at least not very often
[07-08-2003 00:50] <micah> xmux: no, it does multimedia, that is what it is primarily used for
[07-08-2003 00:50] <micah> mtoups: I've noticed that too, even though there are like three people
[07-08-2003 00:50] <micah> mtoups: wanna do it?
[07-08-2003 00:50] <mtoups> micah: sure, i do it now and then anyway, but in general we need more people
[07-08-2003 00:51] <zapATIsta> zapata: which is easier, trying to change hosting and codebase at the same time, or changing codebase say a monthish from now, and then changing hosting a few months later?
[07-08-2003 00:51] <xmux> Is there some script for active that updates all of the links after you put stuff on images, I'm just curious
[07-08-2003 00:51] <mtoups> for example i was out of town for three weeks so imc-tech didn't get much moderation at all
[07-08-2003 00:51] <mtoups> so i think me and one other person in this room should jump on board
[07-08-2003 00:51] <micah> xmux: exactly
[07-08-2003 00:51] <Zapata> ati: depends on the codebase... but I would generally reccommend doing both at the same time...
[07-08-2003 00:51] <mtoups> ah ski is back
[07-08-2003 00:51] <micah> ski is back
[07-08-2003 00:51] <micah> ?
[07-08-2003 00:52] <micah> I dont see him
[07-08-2003 00:52] <Zapata> ati: you should review the codebases... ask for an sf-active demo site, a dada demo site... I'll set up a mir demo site for ya...
[07-08-2003 00:52] * ski has joined #meeting
[07-08-2003 00:52] <mtoups>
[07-08-2003 00:52] <micah> aha, hi ski
[07-08-2003 00:52] <zapATIsta> ok
[07-08-2003 00:52] <ski> hello, what meeting is this? tech?
[07-08-2003 00:52] <micah> yep
[07-08-2003 00:52] <mtoups> hey brian, wanna help moderate imc-tech@lists.indy ?
[07-08-2003 00:52] <Zapata> ati: and once you decide on codebase, you should plan the transition
[07-08-2003 00:52] <mtoups> i kind of like this free for all unmoderated meeting actually
[07-08-2003 00:52] <micah> when it is small it is doable
[07-08-2003 00:52] <ski> oh man, listwork... i thought i told jb to take listwork and shove it up his ass?
[07-08-2003 00:53] <ski> hehe, yeah, i can help moderate imc-tech, that's fine
[07-08-2003 00:53] <micah> ski: I was wondering about the results of your contacting all active sites, we need to do that to get them to switch
[07-08-2003 00:53] <micah> cool
[07-08-2003 00:53] <ski> ahh
[07-08-2003 00:53] <ski> that should be getting in to the contact database RSN
[07-08-2003 00:53] <ski> pseudopunk just dropped me an account, so i'm going to be actually doing that soonish
[07-08-2003 00:53] <micah> so you've managed to gte a hold of all active sites?
[07-08-2003 00:54] <ski> no, many of them. hang on
[07-08-2003 00:54] <micah> we are planning a great exodus
[07-08-2003 00:54] <ski> hell yes.
[07-08-2003 00:54] <ski> off of stallman?
[07-08-2003 00:54] <ski> or away from active?
[07-08-2003 00:55] <mtoups> another question to throw out: what became of the "major vulnerabilities in active" security problem?
[07-08-2003 00:55] <Zapata> ski: both
[07-08-2003 00:55] <Zapata> but away from active is more important
[07-08-2003 00:55] <mtoups> micah: didn't i forward a message about that to you and matze? its still sitting in the imc-tech moderation queue
[07-08-2003 00:55] <ski> ok, looks like i've got roughly 20 imcs left to contact
[07-08-2003 00:55] <micah> ski: at least away from activew
[07-08-2003 00:55] <micah> but off of stallman is good too
[07-08-2003 00:55] <ski> mtoups - did you talk at all about dega?
[07-08-2003 00:55] <micah> mtoups: those were fixed
[07-08-2003 00:55] <mtoups> ski: nope i mentioned staughton though
go for it
[07-08-2003 00:56] <ski> oh awesome.
[07-08-2003 00:56] <micah> mtoups: about which?
[07-08-2003 00:56] <ski> well, deganawida is staughton, but for dada instead of sf-active
[07-08-2003 00:56] <mtoups> micah: about the SQL injection "proof of concept" ... which i will send out to imc-tech now
[07-08-2003 00:56] <mtoups> regarding deganawida and staughton: if people want to help admin a dada server (dega) or sf-active (staughton) contact ski or myself respectively
[07-08-2003 00:56] <micah> mtoups: ahh, dont get anyone scared, ianb fixed all that
[07-08-2003 00:56] <ski> right now we've got imc canarias and most of the hosts on zero.indy (which will soon require $50-70/month to colo and I don't think the imc's ther have it or the organization to get it to the colo)
[07-08-2003 00:57] <mtoups> micah: er ok i can discard it, just didn't want to look like we were avoiding full disclosure
[07-08-2003 00:57] <micah> mtoups/ski: can you put info about these servers up on the wiki?
[07-08-2003 00:57] <ski> micah - good call
[07-08-2003 00:57] <micah> mtoups: oh, I just think it is old nes and people might get confused
[07-08-2003 00:57] <micah> ski: cool, when you get stuff in the contacts database, let me know
[07-08-2003 00:58] <mtoups> micah: no prob then
[07-08-2003 00:58] <micah> ski: we can start contacting those active sites relatively soon to get them thinking about options
[07-08-2003 00:58] <ski> micah - i take it you are primarily looking to contact sites on stallman? or active sites in general?
[07-08-2003 00:58] <micah> so servers that can accept things
[07-08-2003 00:58] * keysjrw Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[07-08-2003 00:58] * nksjs has joined #meeting
[07-08-2003 00:58] <ski> micah - i can send you a list of what i've got so far
[07-08-2003 00:58] <Zapata> ski: send it to me too please
[07-08-2003 00:59] <ski> ok zapata
[07-08-2003 00:59] <micah> dada server (dega) or sf-active (staughton), ahimsa (dada and sf-active), zapata: are their mir admin sites that can take more?
[07-08-2003 00:59] <ski> i sent it to mark (i think) and pseudopunk and blicero who are working with the contact db
[07-08-2003 00:59] <micah> ski: yeah, on stallman I am interested in mostly
[07-08-2003 00:59] <nksjs> micah, what was that thread?
[07-08-2003 00:59] <Zapata> micah: sure...
[07-08-2003 00:59] <ski> i don't think i have a copy of it anymore, but i can regenerate the list if need be or get a copy from one of those punks
[07-08-2003 00:59] <micah> nksjs: http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-tech/2003-August/011633.html
[07-08-2003 00:59] <nksjs> thx
[07-08-2003 00:59] <micah> np
[07-08-2003 01:00] <micah> I am pretty sure linefeed can't take more sites right now
[07-08-2003 01:00] * ski looks both ways to make sure gek isn't here and then chortles about linefeed not being able to take the hosts its got so far
[07-08-2003 01:00] <micah> ok, cool... we need ot put together a brief "why you need to move off of active, here are the options" email
[07-08-2003 01:01] <micah> anyone want to venture some reasons of why to move off of active?
[07-08-2003 01:01] <ski> because freeform is better!
[07-08-2003 01:01] <Zapata> the primary reason is that it wastes resources...
[07-08-2003 01:01] * nksjs Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[07-08-2003 01:01] <Zapata> including human resources
[07-08-2003 01:01] <ski> actually, seriously, i think arc and the boston techs and perhaps lee from nyc imc are going to be rolling out a freeform server soon
[07-08-2003 01:01] * rabble has joined #meeting
[07-08-2003 01:02] <ski> not that we have to advertise for him.
[07-08-2003 01:02] * rabble isn't really here, he's in a party with imc uruguay adn imc germany folks
[07-08-2003 01:02] <Zapata> imc germany folks = idefix?
[07-08-2003 01:02] <ski> while we're being completely informal, can anyone recommend a place for putting a non-indy mailing list? if so please /msg me
[07-08-2003 01:03] <zapATIsta> micah: just show them mke indy which has a newswire stuck on july20 and tell them if they don't want this to happen to them, they should change code.
[07-08-2003 01:03] <zapATIsta>
[07-08-2003 01:03] <rabble> yep
[07-08-2003 01:03] <micah> so, outdated, unsupported code base
[07-08-2003 01:03] <rabble> and other germans
[07-08-2003 01:03] <micah> not being worked on, nobody knows how to support it anymore, nobody wants to
[07-08-2003 01:03] <Zapata> ah... say hi to him for me...
[07-08-2003 01:03] <micah> rabble: they are in uruguay?
[07-08-2003 01:03] <rabble> yeah
[07-08-2003 01:03] <micah> rabble; what are they doing there?
[07-08-2003 01:03] <mtoups> micah: most people think other codebases are more visually appealing (except the stock dada install)
[07-08-2003 01:03] <micah> rabble: any nadir people?
[07-08-2003 01:04] <rabble> uh, one chica looking to do some volunteer folks
[07-08-2003 01:04] <rabble> idefix is here
[07-08-2003 01:04] <micah> mtoups: good point
[07-08-2003 01:04] <mtoups> micah: also the local/global newswires that sf-active and dada have make dealing with newswire spam MUCH easier
[07-08-2003 01:04] <micah> also, nobody likes it anymore
[07-08-2003 01:04] <micah> mtoups: another good reason
[07-08-2003 01:05] <Zapata> mtoups: please don't exclude mir in that list
[07-08-2003 01:06] * jb has joined #meeting
[07-08-2003 01:06] <micah> yeah, sf-active, dada and mir are all much easier to deal with for everyone overall
[07-08-2003 01:06] * jb forgot there was a meeting. sorry.
[07-08-2003 01:07] <mtoups> Zapata: sure, i've never seen a mir site with local/global newswires
[07-08-2003 01:07] <micah> jb: have reasons for why people should switch from active to something else?
[07-08-2003 01:07] <rabble> so the discussion is upgrading everybody who's been orphaned on stallman/active?
[07-08-2003 01:07] <micah> jb: compiling list of reasons so we can contat stallman active sites
[07-08-2003 01:07] <jb> k
[07-08-2003 01:07] <zapATIsta> micah: if we lie and say it's a lot like windows ME people will start changing codebase hours after the email flies.
[07-08-2003 01:07] <micah> rabble: pretty much... nobody knows how to deal with active problems anymore, nobody wants to, and we want all stallman sites free from active
[07-08-2003 01:07] <Zapata> mtoups: that's because mir has so many possiblities, and noone desired such a solution
[07-08-2003 01:07] <rabble> i'm all for that
[07-08-2003 01:08] <jb> about reasons to leave active: in french they say: stop beating cadavers.
[07-08-2003 01:08] <rabble> i think that stray the sfimc tech collective is overworked and we should figure out how to not give htem more work
[07-08-2003 01:08] <micah> yeah, so we are going to use the contact list that ski has generated of all stallman active sites, email them why they need to change, and give them options of things to change to
[07-08-2003 01:08] <rabble> so if folks switch to sfactive then they need to go to a different server, not stray
[07-08-2003 01:08] <micah> jb: in english it would be stop beating a dead horse
[07-08-2003 01:09] <mtoups> zapATIsta: ok
[07-08-2003 01:09] <mtoups> doh
[07-08-2003 01:09] <mtoups> Zapata: ok (too many zap's)
[07-08-2003 01:09] <micah> rabble: exactly, there is a new dada and new sfactive server available now, and mir can take more
[07-08-2003 01:09] <micah> so mostly, I just want to get people to stop using active
[07-08-2003 01:10] <zapATIsta> jb: in southern new england, we say, "horse is dead, get off it"
[07-08-2003 01:10] <micah> andy responded to the injected SQL bug thing the other day saying he was surprised anyone even looked at the code anymore, he didn't
[07-08-2003 01:10] <mtoups> question: is active the only codebase that uses postgres? does it make a difference?
[07-08-2003 01:10] <Zapata> mir uses postgres...
[07-08-2003 01:10] <micah> mir can use both right?
[07-08-2003 01:10] <Zapata> no...
[07-08-2003 01:10] <Zapata> mir will be able to use both...
[07-08-2003 01:10] <micah> it doesn't make a difference really... active just uses postgres BADLY
[07-08-2003 01:10] <Zapata> in 6 months from now (optimistically speaking
[07-08-2003 01:11] <Zapata> and I consider postgres to be quite slow...
[07-08-2003 01:11] <zapATIsta> here in wisconsin though I've yet to hear that expression.
[07-08-2003 01:11] <micah> ok, these are all good reasons, once we get the contact info from ski, I'll put together a letter and send it out to the list to see what people think
[07-08-2003 01:12] <micah> so new people that arrived
[07-08-2003 01:12] <micah> have any problem with the $150 proposal for sarai
[07-08-2003 01:12] <micah> ?
[07-08-2003 01:12] <rabble> i've got idefix here, we can bug him about adding mysql support to mir
[07-08-2003 01:12] <rabble> i think money for sarai is good
[07-08-2003 01:13] <xmux> supporting only one DB and optimizing especially for it is a better idea that trying to support multiple DBs imho
[07-08-2003 01:13] <micah> well, unless anyone else has anything else to say....?
[07-08-2003 01:14] <xmux> Oh, I have something to say about stray
[07-08-2003 01:14] <micah> yah?
[07-08-2003 01:14] <xmux> Useful information for our tech support team
[07-08-2003 01:14] <Zapata> xmux: that depends... we want to use a good db layer abstraction... one that just happens to support multiple dbs
[07-08-2003 01:14] <xmux> Somebody took the production databases on stray and hid them somewhere (I still don't know where they are, they aren't on stray anywhere) so I was trying to fix stray so that all of the websites on it wouldn't be broken....
[07-08-2003 01:15] <xmux> And I ran mysql with the only databases I could find which were two months old
[07-08-2003 01:15] <rabble> there has been endless bitching about stray around the imc here, and from other latin american imc's the last week or two
[07-08-2003 01:15] <ski> re: reasons active sucks, active2 is dead (like 2 emails saying "hello world" in the past 4 months, no cvs commits), too, in case people were waiting for that
[07-08-2003 01:15] <micah> yeah, the recent outage has not been a good one
[07-08-2003 01:16] <xmux> Which caused two problems: 1) all the content is missing from the last two months until the production databases reappear 2) after that, all of the content from the last couple of days needs to be moved from the old databases into the production databases
[07-08-2003 01:16] <xmux> So, if victims from IMCs on stray appear asking questions, that's what's wrong with the databases
[07-08-2003 01:17] <micah> good to know
[07-08-2003 01:17] <mtoups> ok, there have been requests to drop the discard threshold for mailman on sarai
[07-08-2003 01:17] <micah> ah yes
[07-08-2003 01:17] <mtoups> i have seen one false positive scored 5.5 but that was a weird case i think
[07-08-2003 01:17] <mtoups> but that's why i hesitated to drop it to 5
[07-08-2003 01:18] <mtoups> thoughts?
[07-08-2003 01:18] <micah> I am wondering if we should wait a week to see the impact of the dnsbl tweaking I did today
[07-08-2003 01:18] <mtoups> oh yeah btw that rocks
[07-08-2003 01:18] <micah> see if it is still needed after that
[07-08-2003 01:18] * jb raises
[07-08-2003 01:18] <micah> jb: its freeforall, go crazy
[07-08-2003 01:18] <ski> what's the $150 proposal for sarai?
[07-08-2003 01:18] <jb> k
[07-08-2003 01:18] <jb> is the 'spamtrap' thing possible to implement with this SA plug'in ?
[07-08-2003 01:19] <micah> ski: http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-tech/2003-July/011624.html
[07-08-2003 01:19] <jb> i mean, redirecting to list.indy/spamtrap or something ?
[07-08-2003 01:19] <mtoups> well i don't know exactly how "spamtrap" worked but my understanding is that it was a procmail rule
[07-08-2003 01:19] <jb> i think it was.
[07-08-2003 01:19] <mtoups> that just took all spam above a certain level and threw it to another address
[07-08-2003 01:19] <mtoups> so we could re-add such a rule (are we even using procmail anymore)
[07-08-2003 01:19] <micah> jb: with spamtrap we collected spam and gave it to the internet through google
[07-08-2003 01:20] <mtoups> but it would circumvent the current system
[07-08-2003 01:20] <micah> unless mailman was modified
[07-08-2003 01:20] <ski> oh hell yes on the $150 for sarai colo
[07-08-2003 01:20] <micah> ok
[07-08-2003 01:20] * ski thinks hes caught up
[07-08-2003 01:20] <mtoups> so spamtrap is basically equivalant to setting the hold and discard threshholds equal and archiving the spam
[07-08-2003 01:20] <mtoups> so... which of those two items is important?
[07-08-2003 01:21] <zapATIsta> micah, heard from stef at all?
[07-08-2003 01:21] <mtoups> (note that auto-discarded spam is still logged in /var/log/mailman/vette)
[07-08-2003 01:22] <micah> zapATIsta: not yet, she was going home, then to speakeasy
[07-08-2003 01:23] * micah is eager to clean the archives of spam
[07-08-2003 01:23] <zapATIsta> ok.
[07-08-2003 01:23] <mtoups> micah: oh right, me too
[07-08-2003 01:23] <zapATIsta> somoene's asking in www-tech if stallman being down is a known. I'll reply to her and just say people are getting to it.
[07-08-2003 01:24] <zapATIsta>
[07-08-2003 01:24] <micah> www-tech?
[07-08-2003 01:24] <mtoups> www-features
[07-08-2003 01:25] <zapATIsta> I tiyped wrong. [IMC-Tech]
[07-08-2003 01:25] <micah> :)_
[07-08-2003 01:25] <mtoups> oh
[07-08-2003 01:25] <micah> ok, well... shall we end the meeting?
[07-08-2003 01:25] <micah> close the log and go home?
[07-08-2003 01:26] <mtoups> dns?
[07-08-2003 01:26] <micah> ah dns
[07-08-2003 01:26] <micah> what about it?
[07-08-2003 01:26] <micah> nobody has been doing dns work recently
[07-08-2003 01:26] <ski> where are all the dns admins hiding?
[07-08-2003 01:26] <ski> ahh
[07-08-2003 01:26] <mtoups> hmm well yeah we have issues with the secondaries
[07-08-2003 01:26] <ski> that explains it
[07-08-2003 01:26] <micah> well cat.org.au should be fixed now
[07-08-2003 01:27] <jb> matze and i in bcn would be ok to have a dns account.
[07-08-2003 01:27] <micah> jb: good ideas
[07-08-2003 01:27] <jb> hehe jb-homepage.indymedia.org
[07-08-2003 01:27] * ski twinkles at the idea of fresh blood
[07-08-2003 01:27] <micah> jb: where is matze anyway?
[07-08-2003 01:28] <jb> he's probably lying dead drunk on a plaza round
[07-08-2003 01:28] <jb> around
[07-08-2003 01:28] <micah> haha
[07-08-2003 01:28] <mtoups> is ns.riseup.net running bind?
[07-08-2003 01:28] <micah> mtoups
[07-08-2003 01:28] <micah> no
[07-08-2003 01:28] <micah> ns1 is
[07-08-2003 01:28] <micah>
[07-08-2003 01:28] <mtoups> i've adminned djbdns before but
[07-08-2003 01:28] <mtoups> oh ok heh
[07-08-2003 01:29] <mtoups> but yeah i'm not sure why it isn't answering authoritatively with fs is down but... it should be
[07-08-2003 01:29] <jb> hey why is ns*.riseup being classified as a loose serer or something?
[07-08-2003 01:29] <jb> s/serer/server
[07-08-2003 01:29] <ski> imo 99% of the dns admin work that needs to be done is a simple copy and paste. either a A or a CNAME, and you can just copy the format from the rest of the file.
[07-08-2003 01:31] <micah> yug, i dont like djbdns
[07-08-2003 01:32] <micah> jb: loose server?
[07-08-2003 01:32] <micah> jb: oh lame server
[07-08-2003 01:32] <jb> sip
[07-08-2003 01:32] <micah> jb: hehe, I dont know why, I think that is normal, but I need to ask a DNS pro
[07-08-2003 01:32] * micah is stuck in bind4 days
[07-08-2003 01:33] <micah> jb: you can tell matze i set ypou guys up, you should subscribe to dns@
[07-08-2003 01:33] <mtoups> no i do not think that is normal
[07-08-2003 01:33] <mtoups> from dnstracer(8):
[07-08-2003 01:33] <micah> mtoups:
[07-08-2003 01:33] <mtoups> It detects so called lame servers, which are name-servers which has been told to have
[07-08-2003 01:33] <mtoups> information about a certain domain, but don't have this information.
[07-08-2003 01:33] <jb> ok
[07-08-2003 01:33] <micah> mtoups: what is "it detects"?
[07-08-2003 01:33] <mtoups> which means the registrar claims that ns1.riseup answers authoritatively for indymedia.org but it doesn't
[07-08-2003 01:34] <micah> interesting
[07-08-2003 01:34] <mtoups> but that only seems to be a problem when fs is down
[07-08-2003 01:34] <micah> I know ns1.riseup has the zone files and receives regular zone transfers when things are changed
[07-08-2003 01:34] <mtoups> $ dnstracer indymedia.org
[07-08-2003 01:34] <mtoups> Tracing to indymedia.org via 205.201.1.20, timeout 15 seconds
[07-08-2003 01:34] <mtoups> 205.201.1.20 (205.201.1.20)
[07-08-2003 01:34] <mtoups> |\___ E5.NSTLD.COM [org] (192.12.94.34)
[07-08-2003 01:34] <mtoups> | |\___ NS1.RISEUP.NET [indymedia.org] (216.162.197.233) Got authoritative answer
[07-08-2003 01:34] <mtoups> | |\___ FS.FREESPEECH.org [indymedia.org] (206.168.174.3) Got authoritative answer
[07-08-2003 01:34] <mtoups> | \___ BLACK.CAT.ORG.AU [indymedia.org] (203.57.122.1) Got authoritative answer
[07-08-2003 01:34] <micah> whoa
[07-08-2003 01:35] <micah> so wait, they are all authoritative
[07-08-2003 01:35] * ski is going bowling
[07-08-2003 01:35] <ski> peace everyone
[07-08-2003 01:35] <micah> seeya ski
[07-08-2003 01:35] <zapATIsta> ski, taking skinheads?
[07-08-2003 01:35] <zapATIsta> laterz
[07-08-2003 01:35] <jb> seeya ski
[07-08-2003 01:36] <ski> ati - actually, funny you should mention that, i'm taking my friend bert whos head i shaved about a month ago. hes an asian nazi, real cool guy.
[07-08-2003 01:36] <mtoups> micah: yeah its fine now but when fs went down it wasn't ... i'm not sure why
[07-08-2003 01:37] <jb> what is the site, dnscheck.org or somethig
[07-08-2003 01:37] * zapATIsta is a nonracist skin since 98ish.
[07-08-2003 01:37] * billf has joined #meeting
[07-08-2003 01:37] <jb> showed that we had bogus dns because of a lame
[07-08-2003 01:37] <billf> dns on che is fixed
[07-08-2003 01:37] <billf> fyi
[07-08-2003 01:37] <micah> hey billf
[07-08-2003 01:37] * ski is a seasonal skin who's out the door
[07-08-2003 01:38] <micah> billf: what was wrong with dns on che?
[07-08-2003 01:38] <billf> hi.. 4.2.2.2 can't be used as a dns server from che anymore
[07-08-2003 01:38] <mtoups> later ski
[07-08-2003 01:38] <micah> billf: oh really?
[07-08-2003 01:38] <micah> billf: that might be causing problems elsewhere, I've used that one a lot
[07-08-2003 01:38] <billf> billf
[07-08-2003 01:38] <billf> whoops
[07-08-2003 01:38] <micah> micah
[07-08-2003 01:38] <micah> what kinds of problems was it causing?
[07-08-2003 01:39] <billf> [ 27 ]$ dig @4.2.2.2 26.105.234.216.in-addr.arpa /usr/local/ircd/etc
[07-08-2003 01:39] <billf> ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: REFUSED, id: 57354
[07-08-2003 01:39] <billf> [ 28 ]$ dig @168.103.24.1 26.105.234.216.in-addr.arpa /usr/local/ircd/etc
[07-08-2003 01:39] <billf> ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 44712
[07-08-2003 01:39] <jb> http://www.dnsreport.com/tools/dnsreport.ch?domain=indymedia.org
[07-08-2003 01:39] <billf> REFUSED made it stop the search as well
[07-08-2003 01:39] <billf> so it didn't even try the next one
[07-08-2003 01:39] <micah> billf: weird, it works from other servers
[07-08-2003 01:40] <billf> i hate running with only one recursive resolver
[07-08-2003 01:40] <billf> so we should either setup a localhost resolver (always a good idea with an irc server) or find another one to use
[07-08-2003 01:40] <billf> i can make 37.snoogans.org available to it, if need be
[07-08-2003 01:41] <micah> jb: interesting site!
[07-08-2003 01:41] <micah> billf: it is trivial to setup a local caching nameserver
[07-08-2003 01:41] <micah> apt-get install bind
[07-08-2003 01:41] <billf> yeah, i'll do that
[07-08-2003 01:42] <micah> echo "nameserver 127.0.0.1" > /etc/resolv.conf
[07-08-2003 01:42] <micah> err
[07-08-2003 01:42] <micah> better put it at the top
[07-08-2003 01:42] <billf> yep
[07-08-2003 01:42] <micah> the debian package is setup by default to be a caching nameserver
[07-08-2003 01:42] <billf> are there general purpose resolvers at communitycolo
[07-08-2003 01:42] <billf> we'd be good net.citizens if we use them as forwarders and only recurse if they're down
[07-08-2003 01:43] <billf> also, is there a way to view the packing slip of a package
[07-08-2003 01:43] <billf> (like where it installs the files)
[07-08-2003 01:44] <micah> mtoups: perhaps the SOA expire failure is it?
[07-08-2003 01:44] <micah> billf: that would be good
[07-08-2003 01:44] <mtoups> micah: ooh maybe so
[07-08-2003 01:44] <micah> billf: before it is installed, or after?
[07-08-2003 01:45] <billf> micah: either
[07-08-2003 01:45] <billf> i've already installed it, but i have no idea where it put the bloody config files
[07-08-2003 01:45] <billf> (cough*it'd be in /usr/local like everything else in freebsd ports...*cough)
[07-08-2003 01:46] <micah> billf: dpkg -S <packagename> and dpkg -s <packagename> give you good info
[07-08-2003 01:46] <micah> billf: or you can use ar
[07-08-2003 01:46] <micah> billf: all debian config files are in /etc
[07-08-2003 01:46] <micah> so /etc/bind
[07-08-2003 01:46] <billf> ok
[07-08-2003 01:47] <billf> as opposed to /etc/namedb like on other systems
[07-08-2003 01:47] <micah> or /var/named
[07-08-2003 01:47] <billf> yeah
[07-08-2003 01:47] <micah> or /var/spool/named
[07-08-2003 01:47] <micah> or /etc/named.boot
[07-08-2003 01:47] <micah> or /etc/named.conf
[07-08-2003 01:47] <billf> /var/spool/named is scary
[07-08-2003 01:47] <micah> or /named/is/crazy
[07-08-2003 01:47] <billf> billf> are there general purpose resolvers at communitycolo
[07-08-2003 01:47] <micah> the debian filesystem hierarchy is pretty defined, and is based
[07-08-2003 01:49] <micah> sorry, I mean, it adheres to the FHS
[07-08-2003 01:49] <micah> mtoups: I bet that is it
[07-08-2003 01:49] <micah> mtoups: the secndaries consider the zone to be stale after that time
[07-08-2003 01:49] <mtoups> ahhhh yep
[07-08-2003 01:50] <mtoups> that explains why it only happens when fs is down
[07-08-2003 01:51] <mtoups> oh btw
[07-08-2003 01:51] <mtoups> i dunno if anyone here is in eastern north america
[07-08-2003 01:51] <mtoups> but in 10 days or so pittsburgh IMC is having an open house / IMC party
[07-08-2003 01:51] * billf slaps micah around
[07-08-2003 01:52] <mtoups> free food, live music, IMC videos, folks from pittsburgh, cleveland, dc, ithaca (heh), nyc maybe
[07-08-2003 01:52] <mtoups> so tell your friends
[07-08-2003 01:53] <rabble> you covering tickets from south america? i'd be happy to join the party
[07-08-2003 01:54] <xmux> I'll hide in rabbles suitcase
[07-08-2003 01:54] <micah> ok, I just fixed the SOA problems
[07-08-2003 01:55] <micah> we'll see if that fixes the overall problems
[07-08-2003 01:58] <mtoups> hmmm supposedly i'm going on a road trip to valpariso with this chilean girl i met at the CAFTA demos
[07-08-2003 01:58] <mtoups> one of these days
[07-08-2003 01:59] <micah> cool
[07-08-2003 01:59] <zapATIsta> kewl
[07-08-2003 01:59] <mtoups> probably won't make it in time for the general strike next week
[07-08-2003 02:00] <zapATIsta> I'm just going to benning and back this nov, and dc a couple times to testify against police chief ramsey.
[07-08-2003 02:00] <mtoups> oh that is something i wanted to ask
[07-08-2003 02:00] * zapATIsta is hoping for a general strike to come to eeuu.
[07-08-2003 02:00] <mtoups> zapATIsta: you going to miami? i haven't heard anything about an IMC presence yet
[07-08-2003 02:01] <zapATIsta> If I can do both I want to go to ftaa as well, but if I have to choose just some days, it's gotta be heavily on the soa side.
[07-08-2003 02:02] <zapATIsta> So far there's one group that's going late to ftaa and leaving soa early. I might try to go down to miami with one group of folks and back here with a different group, if they'll agree to let me do that cheaply/easily
[07-08-2003 02:02] <mtoups> btw peep the pgh IMC space / party venue :
[07-08-2003 02:02] <zapATIsta> that'll make it easier to be at all of both.
[07-08-2003 02:02] <mtoups> should we start making plans for miami IMC coverage? i'm sure plenty of us are going
[07-08-2003 02:03] <mtoups> there is this cool "civic media center" in gainesville that we could get in touch with
[07-08-2003 02:05] <zapATIsta> kewl.
[07-08-2003 02:05] <zapATIsta> I'm pretty sure some of the peeps from atlanta imc are planning on getting there early and staying at least til they have to go up to benning.
[07-08-2003 02:06] <zapATIsta> in fact, they'll probably have a space there in columbus ga throughout.
[07-08-2003 02:06] <micah> mtoups: nice space!
[07-08-2003 02:09] <mtoups> zapATIsta: actually i was referring to miami... i assumed atlanta IMC would be all over benning again
[07-08-2003 02:11] <zapATIsta> yeah, I'm saying I think they're also going to try and cover some of miami.
[07-08-2003 02:11] <zapATIsta> it's apparently a fairly short daytrip between benning and miami
[07-08-2003 02:11] <mtoups> oh cool
[07-08-2003 02:12] <mtoups> well ft. benning is close to the florida panhandle but getting to miami is a trip...
[07-08-2003 02:14] <zapATIsta> yup.
[07-08-2003 02:14] <zapATIsta> friend of mine found a cheap one way to miami a couple days before ftaa, he's gonna just meander toward benning after that.
[07-08-2003 02:15] <micah> ugh my head is killing me, and I want to go to bed
[07-08-2003 02:15] <micah> but stefani hasn't showed up online yet...
[07-08-2003 02:16] <zapATIsta> no rest for the weary
[07-08-2003 02:16] * zapATIsta is listening to old Andres Segovia LPs to keep his chops up.
[07-08-2003 02:17] <micah> jeez
[07-08-2003 02:18] <micah> mtoups: I emailed sean at galaxy earlier today telling him that we had the proposal and we have to have the meeting for it
[07-08-2003 02:18] <micah> and we could get him the money soon
[07-08-2003 02:18] <mtoups> good good
[07-08-2003 02:18] <micah> so he just sent me an email as if we didn't get that
[07-08-2003 02:18] <micah> s/we/he
[07-08-2003 02:18] <mtoups> heh
[07-08-2003 02:18] <micah> he is such a crack smoker
[07-08-2003 02:18] <mtoups> weirdness
[07-08-2003 02:18] <micah> I'm going to send him the money now, if there is a problem with the proposal then we'll deal with it
[07-08-2003 02:19] <micah> I just can't handle it being unplugged again
[07-08-2003 02:19] <mtoups> sure
[07-08-2003 02:19] <mtoups> you've given plenty of notice i think
[07-08-2003 02:19] <zapATIsta> the only email I got was telling me to run outside in the rain, take off my pants and sing "I'm a little teacup"
[07-08-2003 02:19] <mtoups> oh here's a thought
[07-08-2003 02:19] <zapATIsta> Lo and behold it IS raining.
[07-08-2003 02:19] <micah> hahah
[07-08-2003 02:20] <mtoups> maybe while we've got the communication gates open we can get the reverse DNS to resolve to sarai.indymedia.org or mail.indymedia.org instead of 207-229-92-161.cortland.com ?
[07-08-2003 02:20] <micah> yeah I was thinking that too
[07-08-2003 02:25] <jb> gotta sleep
[07-08-2003 02:25] <jb> later'
[07-08-2003 02:25] <micah> sleep -- ZaPata - 07 Aug 2003
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Topic revision: r1 - 08 Aug 2003, ZaPata
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