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duende has changed the topic to: TranslationTool meeting HERE AND NOW http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Devel/TranslationIrcMeeting5
<linksrhein> cendrine: i think this was a little chaotic
<cendrine> lol
<Report> i vote linksrhein for moderator :)
* linksrhein gives his veto
<linksrhein> duende and me made so many moderations
<linksrhein> i think others should try
<lupita> come on Report. Take your chance
<linksrhein> and we support them as much as we can
<Report> ok.. hehe. but. can anyone log? im not so sure how to do it
<linksrhein> my line is instable
* linksrhein claps for report  doing facilitation
<linksrhein> i can log as long i don't have a breakdown of my pc
<Report> so, i guess its easier to type "*" if anyone want to say something
* duende tries to log but also has disconnections
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<elgrillado> good evening
<lupita> good evening
<duende> hey elgrillado
<linksrhein> hi elgrillado
<duende> ok, i think we can begin with the 1st topic? http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Devel/TranslationToolMissionStatement
<cendrine> hey grillado
<duende> hmmmm
<Report> hi, so, first topic is mission statement?
<duende> maybe we can discuss the text sentence by sentence?
<linksrhein> http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Devel/TranslationToolMissionStatement
* linksrhein i  propose we start with the second part
<linksrhein> Proposition from yannindy:
* duende agrees
<linksrhein> The translation tool is meant to provide translators inside the Indymedia network a tool that allows avoiding having multiple people translating the same text. The tool replaces the translation lists, that are not designed to work in real-time.
<linksrhein> comments?
<duende> *
<lupita> it doesn't always work. we need to improve on that
<Report> go on duende :)
<duende> the tool doesn't replace the lists
* linksrhein nodds
<duende> and we can also say that we want to provide translations to the network
<duende> not only a tool to the translators /end
<Report> anyone else?
* duende adds the comment of lupita in the agenda
<Report> *
<duende> yes
<lupita> *no, sorry I mean that sometimes there are multiple people translatin a text. But I know that is not the TT's fault
<duende> can we rephrase the 1st sentence in:
<duende> The translation tool is meant to provide imc's with translations and translators with a tool that allows avoiding having multiple people translating the same text. The tool works in coordination with translation lists.
<Report> yeah.. the thing is that not everybody knows how to use TT
<linksrhein> ok
<linksrhein> is translation lists clear or is translation mailinglists better?
<lupita> yeah, it's good to include IMCs in the text
<duende> 2nd sentence if everybody agrees with the 1st?
<lupita> yeah
<linksrhein> ok
<duende> The translators using it allow Indymedia sites worldwide the possibility to get a translation for the articles posted on these sites that have an international focus. Other texts that can be posted are technical documentations, discussion-papers from indymedia mailinglists, etc. It is also possible to propose articles that so far did not appear on indymedia servers.
* duende agrees with this
<linksrhein> i would remove the international focus
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<linksrhein> oops

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<Report> sorry
<duende> :-)
<duende> glad to see you back!
<lupita> where did ya go?!
<duende> The translators using it allow Indymedia sites worldwide to get a translation for the articles posted on these sites. Other texts that can be posted are technical documentations, discussion-papers from indymedia mailinglists, etc. It is also possible to propose articles that so far did not appear on indymedia servers.
<elgrillado> the last setence says It is also possible to propose articles that so far did not appear on indymedia servers. , but later:
<Report> click on wrong button. too many windows here
<elgrillado> and the original article must be posted on at least one Indymedia site
* duende thinks it should be allowed to translate articles not yet posted on an indy site
* linksrhein nods
<elgrillado> ok
<lupita> I agree. Not everything it's going to appear here first
<Report> me too
<Report> 3rd sentence?
<duende>  The group will receive and treat translation requests through the translation tool, available at http://translations.indymedia.org/. The group will then use its own internal policies to spread the work among the available translators. These policies are described in the edito policy of the translationtools group.
<linksrhein> i think, pppl select the texts by their own and don't need the group for this
<linksrhein> The group will then use its own internal policies to moderate these requests.
* duende agrees. Can you rephrase the whole stuff linksrhein?
<linksrhein> The group will receive and treat translation requests through the translation tool, available at http://translations.indymedia.org/. The group will then use its own internal policies to moderate these requests.These policies are described in the editorial policy of the translationtools group.
<linksrhein> hm
<lupita> ok
* Report thinks report is no good moderator
<linksrhein> come on
<duende> another proposal (to get rid of "the group")
<duende> Translation requests are treated and spread through the translation tool, available at http://translations.indymedia.org/. If necessary, the requests will be moderated in accordance with the internal policies described in the editorial policy.
<linksrhein> better
<Report> cool, but do i need to tell my imc-collective everytime I post an article on TT?
<duende> ?
<Report> nothing.. hehe.. ok to your proposal
<linksrhein> concerning the sentence before
<duende> we can still change it...
<Report> no thats ok.. i mean, this way.. only imc people can post it. right?
<linksrhein> .. to allow anyone from the indymedia network to ...instead of  ... allow Indymedia sites worldwide ...
<duende> i don't understand it that way
<lupita> Does the "through" mean throughout or via the translation tool? English is a tricky language and we're just discovering it...
<duende> is there a native english speaker in the room? :-)
<Report> hehehe., not me
<lupita> You really think it would make a difference??
<duende> let's use "via" :-)
<Report> so, if anyone has a good article to post, but its not from imc, what will s/he do?
<linksrhein> Report:  imc network is not only the few ppl in the collectives but everyone who adds news
<linksrhein> in my point of view
<duende> i think it doesn't have to be from imc but for imc
<linksrhein> yep
<lupita> yeah
<Report> yeah.. mine too. agreed with both
<duende> 4th part?
<Report> lets go
<duende> Acceptable requests can only be done by Indymedia volunteers, and the original article must be posted on at least one Indymedia site. The link to the article must be provided, along with the e-mail address of the requester. A short explanation of the translation request must also be added (what's the value of translating the text, where should it be posted once translated, ..).
* duende thinks this part needs heavy rephrasing
<linksrhein> we shouldn't put userinterface details in the mission statement
<duende> then let's suppress this part entirely...
<lupita> yes, what if you're new to the network but still want to post something of value, and again, what if it hasn't been posted anywhere on Indymedia yet?
<duende> anybody is against getting rid of this part?
<Report> cut it off...  
<duende> ok
<Report> but the article should be posted on a imc site after the translation
<duende> last sentence:
<duende> Once a text is translated, it is the responsibility of the requester to post the text on the relevant Indymedia sites.
<lupita> I think there should be a mention somewhere that a link to the article must be provided. It's good to have a reference when you're translating a text
<duende> then we can add to the previous paragraph:  If applicable, the link to the article must be provided
<Report> agree with lupita... but thats a userinterface detail, isnt it?
* linksrhein nodds
* duende sort of agrees with everybody. it's a userinterface item, but not a detail ;-)
<linksrhein> maybe it's  necessary to say who takes care for the translation (as a maintainer or something)
<lupita> true, but having the link makes it easier for you to refer to it when translating. Am just thinkin as a translator here :)
<linksrhein> the one who requested, the one who translated, the group?
<duende> linksrhein, what do you mean with "takes care"?
<Report> responsible?
<linksrhein> makes sure it was not translated in vain
* duende agrees with lupita + asking for ppl to provide a link is also a sort of signal that we don't want to be abused
<Report> true
<linksrhein> ok
<linksrhein> but we can write it elsewhere
<linksrhein> not in the mission statement
<linksrhein> but in the posting form
<xFistRaisedx> hello
<lupita> ok, as long as it's some place where people can see it
<linksrhein> hi xfist :-)
<duende> hey xFistRaisedx
<xFistRaisedx> :)
<lupita> hey there
<duende> ok, let's write it on the posting form, it's a beter place!
<linksrhein> so the requester is responsible?
<Report> i guess so
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<duende> i would make the requester responsible, but also add that it's wise for the translator to post his/her translation his/herself
 anenke anna-weg
<duende> hey anenke
<anenke> hi, just 'lurking' if that's ok...
<anenke> for now..
<lupita> hi anenke
 anenke anna-weg
<duende> ok anenke, don't hesitate to participate when you feel like!
<linksrhein> ok for me
* Report ok
<anenke> ok thanks!!
<duende> a proposal for the last sentence with the responsibilities and everything?
<Report> you mean, responsible on the content of the article?
<linksrhein> Once a text is translated, it is the responsibility of the requester to post the text on the relevant Indymedia sites. The translators can and should check if their translations were used in an appropriate way.
* duende disagrees with the last sentence
<linksrhein> Report: no in the sense of not having translated and no one posts it anywhere
<duende> i think we should invite translators to post their translations, not instruct them to do or control stuff
<Report> ok
<linksrhein> So both are responsible?
<linksrhein> or the translator makes the work and the requetser is responsible? ;-)
<Report> but how can we know if the work was in vain?
<lupita> I don't think a translator is responsible for posting a translation really. We're just responding to a request from a "client". It is the "client's" responsibility to make sure the translation goes where it should. Having a link makes it easier for us to check if our work was worth it
* anenke thinks translation is very hard work and the requester should take as much responsibility as possible, to make it easiser for the translator  - remember they're doing it for free...
<elgrillado> the requester only should be responsible to me also
<duende> proposal: Once a text is translated, the requester is expected to post the translation on the relevant Indymedia site(s). However, the translator can also post it on the site(s) of his/her choice, and might want to do so to be sure that his/her translation is not "forgetted" by the requester.
<duende> forgetted > forgotten :-ppppppp
<lupita> Forgotten Duende, forgotten!
<duende> lol
<linksrhein> :-)
<linksrhein> rofl
<Report> lol
<elgrillado> ?
<Report> lol= jejeje
<Report> by the way , i would be cool if the name of the translator is posted with the article..isnt it?
<Report> or maybe. TT team
<Report> or something like that
<duende> good idea
<linksrhein> nickname
<lupita> However, translators may also post translations to the site/s of their choice to make sure their translation is not "forgotten" by the requester. And yeah, it should have our nicknames on it.
<duende> great! :-)
<Report> beautiful. i want to translate something now :)
<duende> lol
<Report> whats next?
<Report> that 1st part?
<Report> or editorial policy?
<duende> i don't think it's necessary
<duende> i would go for edito now
<Report> cool
<Report> Independent Media Centres (IMC's) are open-publishing platforms for news, issues, actions and analysis reporting on grassroots, non-corporate, non-commercial social justice, environmental and political issues. IMC 's are maintained by a network of media activists and groups.
* Report took the first sentence on editorial policy
* duende ok
<Report> ok for me too

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duende has changed the topic to: TranslationTool meeting HERE AND NOW http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Devel/TranslationToolEditorialPolicy
<linksrhein> ok
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<Report> humm. the editorial policy is quite big. should we take sentence by sentence?

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<duende> we can try to go faster
<Report> ok
<linksrhein> i think sentence by sentence is fastest because it's clear on what we are taliking
<Report> The Translation Project and its Website (called TranslationTool) is part of the indymedia network and dedicated to the open publishing ethos. This site explains how content on the site is generated and how you can contribute.
<Report> second sentence
<elgrillado> i'm sorry i must leave. It will be a trascript of the session avaible?
<linksrhein> yep
<Report> on a wiki near you :)
<duende> :-))))
<elgrillado> Ok, see you then. ciao.
<lupita> again, funny English means the "dedicated to the open publishing ethos" sounds hilarious to me.
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<duende> can we replace "this site explains" by "this text explains"? the rest is ok for me
* duende is not even sure she understands this "ethos" part correctly ;-)
<Report> lol
<Report> thought i was the only one
<linksrhein> i don't understand hilarious ;-)
<duende> rofl
<lupita> oh thanks G-d it's not just me ;)
<anenke> hilarious: you feel like laughing at it
<Report> hahaha. liked this "G-d"
<anenke> the open publishing ethos= the open publishing policy
<duende> let's scrap " and dedicated to the open publishing ethos. "
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<lupita> It's just that it seems we're dedicating them a song or something
<Report> lol
<duende> :-))
<linksrhein> he we are removing the core idea of indymedia ;-)
<duende> let's do just that, and then ask for money :-ppppppppp
<linksrhein> ok
<linksrhein> you remove i ask
<Report> and the money goes for my trip,
<Report> :)
<duende> :-)))
<Report> ok. lets move..erase that parte?
<Report> part
<linksrhein> ok
<lupita> si, erase that parte si
<Report> :))) i keep on thinking in pt
<Report> so, erase all second sentence?
<duende> :-)
<duende> yes
<lupita> yeah
<Report> cool
<Report> TranslationTool volunteers are moderating the site and collaborate in translation work, moderating and administration. Contents on the newswire (right column) and the proposed translations (center column) are generated by anyone who wants to contribute. The open posting guidelines below have been created to ensure the integrity of the site.
<Report> 3rd sentence
<Report> a litlle confusing for me
<Report> little
<duende> the 1st sentence needs to be changed, the rest is ok for me
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<duende> to replace the 1st sentence: TranslationTool volunteers take care of the translation work, moderation and administration of the site.
<linksrhein> ok
<Report> TranslationTool volunteers take care of the translation work, moderation and administration of the site. Contents on the newswire (right column) and the proposed translations (center column) are generated by anyone who wants to contribute. The open posting guidelines below have been created to ensure the integrity of the site.
<Report> with duende's changes
<Report> ok for me
<Report> next one?
<duende> yes
<Report> Occasionally we are forced to delete or mark as "trash" (i.e. not worth translating) postings offending the open posting guidelines. Because of the 'real time' nature of the newswire, it is not possible to monitor its contents 24 hours a day.
<duende> ok
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<xFistRaisedx> hey ppl, sorry for my no intervention but I'm completelly lost i let  the others decide about it.
<duende> :-)
<Report> thats ok xFRx
<Report> later you come and drink a beer with us :)
<duende> if you want to catch back, linksrhein is updating the edito policy http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Devel/TranslationToolEditorialPolicy
<Report> cool.. i would forget to do that
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<duende> next sentence?
<Report> k
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<Report> Open Posting Guidelines:
<Report> Repeated : content that is reposted or text that was originally a comment posted as a report.
<duende> let's scrap this
<Report> OPG?
<Report> or only this sentence?
<xFistRaisedx> thank you
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<duende> only this sentence :-)
<duende> or maybe replace it by "double posts"
<Report> much easier
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<Report> Non-news : posts which are clearly purely comment, opinion or rants unrelated to a recent event or action etc.
* duende has no opinion on this one
<linksrhein> what is rants?
<Report> well. coments dont need translations.. but sometimes an email needs to be translated..like those imc-brisbane posts
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<Report> rant= silly conversation
<Report> or smt like that
<linksrhein> thanks
<Report> welcome back lupita
<lupita> hello, my session run out and had to gt more credit. what did I miss?
<Report> Non-news : posts which are clearly purely comment, opinion or rants unrelated to a recent event or action etc.
<Report> we re on Open Posting Guidelines
<lupita> ok
<Report> next one?
<linksrhein> Kirtsen Anderberg asks sometimes for non-news
<linksrhein> sone anarchy ppl  ask for book chapters
<linksrhein>  also non news (but ppl translated these sometimes)
<Report> didnt get it links
<Report> this non news should be rephrase it?

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<linksrhein> maybe
<linksrhein> http://translations.indymedia.org/Translations/1087838309/index_html this was non-news
<lupita> oh yeah, the anarchy stuff...they were really long and complicated and you weren't sure what it was for. Kirsten's aims are usually clearer
<duende> someone proposes a rephrasing?
<Report> humm
<duende> ok, someone is against scrapping it then?
<duende> scrapping in 10 seconds
<duende> 9 seconds
<duende> 8 seconds
<duende> 7 seconds
<duende> :-pppp
<linksrhein> i'd like something for rants and etc.
<linksrhein> :-)
<Report> we can change the name,, "non-news"
<linksrhein> silly stuff
<Report> lol, directely to the point
<duende> :-)
<Report> ok for me.. you?
<duende> ok
<lupita> News unrelated?
<Report> unrelated news?
<Report> i liked
<Report> anyone?
<Report> or next sentence?
<Report> Discrimination : posts using language, imagery, or other forms of communication promoting racism, fascism, xenophobia, sexism or any other form of discrimination.
<duende> ok
<Report> me too
<linksrhein> ok
<Report> Inaccurate : posts that are inaccurate or misleading.
<Report> inaccurate?
<linksrhein> hehe, very flexible point
<Report> i guess this is on unrelated news(silly stuff)
* linksrhein thinks of these gdy postings about concentration camps in USA
<lupita> it's all silly stuff at the end of the day, so yeah...
<Report> erase it!
<duende> lol
<Report> Advertising : posts with personal or product promotions.
<Report> silly stuff?
<lupita> silly stuff
<Report> cut it off!
<duende> :-)
<Report> Hierarchy : The newswire is designed to generate a news resource, not a notice-board for political parties or any other hierarchically structured organization.
<duende> let's keep the advertising part!
<Report> am I been to fast?
<Report> ok
<Report> being
<Report> too
<Report> fast
<Report> :)
<linksrhein> a little
<Report> sorry
<Report> advertising, lets keep it then. ok
<Report> ?
<linksrhein> ok
<duende> yes, after the "apples for sale" of yesterday, i think we need it :-)
<Report> sounds funny. but it didnt get it.. what "apples for sale" hehe
<Report> ?
<lupita> apples for sale?
<linksrhein> http://translations.indymedia.org/Translations/Translations/search?sort_on=date&sort_order=reverse&query_start=1&meta_type=Article&subject=trash <-- Trashed postings
<duende> the 1st trashed request
<Report> ahh. german speakers :)
<linksrhein> not really, duende
<linksrhein> nr 13
<duende> lol
<duende> ok :-)
<anenke> i'm leaving now,
<anenke> great job you're doing
<anenke> bye now!
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<Report> bye!
<Report> ops
<Report> :)
<linksrhein> thanks  and come back, i wanted to say
<Report> is it my impression or most of translators are german?
<duende> do we agree to keep the advertising stuff?
* duende frenchspeaker
<Report> yeap
<linksrhein> yes
* linksrhein frenchreader
<duende> rofl
<lupita> Bye Anenke. About the apples, it's so unfair they only want to break into the French market...what about Spain?
<duende> lol
<xFistRaisedx> lupita,
<xFistRaisedx> where are u from?
<lupita> ehem!, am Spanish
<xFistRaisedx> yeah!
<duende> :-)
<duende> next one? the hierarchy stuff?
<Report> yes
<duende> Hierarchy : The newswire is designed to generate a news resource, not a notice-board for political parties or any other hierarchically structured organization.
<Report> agreed. but if its a good political analises made by a member of an hirarchicall group?
<duende> that's a problem :/
<xFistRaisedx> mm
<lupita> ah, my friend. That's the problem. What may be a good political anlysis for you may be a crap point made by an idiot for me. It's all subjective
<Report> youre right.. but then, this goes for silly stuff. isnt it?
<duende> :-))))
<Report> i mean.. if some NGO writes a good article.. they have hierarchies....but it can be a good article..
<duende> so we can erase the hierarchy part?
<Report> dont know duende.. if the article mentions a hierarchy program, i guess we should erase it
<Report> but it not.. i see not problem
<Report> see no problem
<xFistRaisedx> I agree with Report
<lupita> I agree. The problem is that trying to sort out what is good from what is not may prove difficult and time consuming. It's hard to decide
<Report> but if not i see no problem.. sorry about the mitakes
<Report> yeah.. thats true
<Report> so. what do you think. we can keep it, to avoid future problems.. but if thats a good article and not a party propagando
<Report> propaganda
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<Report> we can keep it
<Report> what do you think?
<Report> welcome back linksrhein
<duende> we can replace "Advertising : posts with personal or product promotions." by "Promotion : posts with personal or product promotions, propaganda for political or other hierarchical groups.
<xFistRaisedx> I think we're talking about only hierarchy party, but we aren't analysing if some articule is good or bad
<linksrhein_> sorry, reset

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<Report> agreed with duende
<lupita> yeah, I like the idea of merging Advertising and Hierarchy
<xFistRaisedx> I agreed too
<duende> next?
<Report> what about the log? wasnt lr the person behind it?
<Report> ok. next one
<duende> Disruptive : Contributions by individuals who habitually publish above mentioned discouraged content.
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* duende tries to log as well
<Report> cool. i always trusted you :)
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<duende> report, don't! ;-)
 linksrhein linksrhein_ lupita
 linksrhein linksrhein_

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<Report> lol
<linksrhein_> ?
<xFistRaisedx> What's about contribuitions?
<Report> linksrhein:
<Report> Disruptive : Contributions by individuals who habitually publish above mentioned discouraged content.
* duende has no opinion again on this (sorry for that ;-)
<linksrhein_> what is discouraged content?
<Report> i didnt get this one :)
<Report> hehe
<duende> discouraged content is the contributions that are advertisment, double posts, racists, etc
<lupita> the racist and xenophobic stuff
<linksrhein_> aha
<linksrhein_> ok
<Report> well. i think people who post this kind of thing will not post a serious thing
<duende> you have a point here
<duende> so we agree on it?
<lupita> yeah
<linksrhein_> ok
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<duende> i propose to add a new item:
<Report> Sections on the Translation Tool
<duende> Posts in the center column that are not translation requests"? And remove "The newswire is designed to generate a news resource
<Report> oh. sorry
<duende> sorry
<duende> "Posts in the center column that are not translation requests"
<Report> agreed
<linksrhein_> ok
<lupita> ok
<Report> next one?
<duende> yes
<Report> Sections on the Translation Tool
<Report> Translations: (center column) Everybody is free to post proposals for translations, add comments to articles. However, Translation Tool volunteers take the liberty to delete postings (or mark as trash), which are offending the open posting guidelines.
<duende> ok
* Report ok
<xFistRaisedx> agree
<linksrhein_> ok
<Report> News (right-hand column): The Newswire is thought for technical, organizational, etc. information on translation work, especially in the indymedia context. Everybody is free to post on the newswire or add comments to newswire articles. However, TranslationTool volunteers take the liberty to delete postings, which are offending the open posting guidelines.
<duende> ok
<lupita> which are offensive to. You cannot offend a posting guideline so it would bite you or something, arf! ;)
<duende> rofl
<linksrhein_> :-)
<Report> hehehe
<duende> "contrary to the guidelines"?
<linksrhein_> ok
<lupita> yeah cool
<linksrhein_> or break
<linksrhein_>  /del last sentence
<Report> :))
<duende> ok to delete as well, since it's already stated above
<Report> Comments: Everybody can add their own comments at the end of each article. These comments should be related to the translation process and the article posted. Comments are subject to the guidelines for deleting. They can be used to:
<Report> State an opinion about any given posting.
<Report> Add information.
<Report> Correct inaccurate or malicious information.
<Report> Rectify misinformation.
* duende has many things to say on this one...
<Report> go ahead
<duende> "State an opinion about any given posting" is not really the function of the TT
<duende> i propose to erase this one
<duende> and before the 3 others, to add:
<duende> - post translations in the requested language or any other language
<duende> - ask questions to the requester or to other translators about the translation
<duende> - discuss about translation issues related to the text.
<duende>  /end
<Report> ok for me
<linksrhein_> but what about discussions on the validity of the content?
<linksrhein_> if it's true or not
<duende> it's in "rectify misinformation"
<linksrhein_> ic, sorry
<lupita> I agree about not stating an opinion. We're meant to be neutral.
<duende> it's also in "Correct inaccurate or malicious information"
<duende> we could merge those 2?
<xFistRaisedx> I have a doubt about what is "innaccurate"
<Report> xFRx: impreciso , inexato
<linksrhein_> 200 demonstrators if only 10 ppl where present
<xFistRaisedx> thanks Report
<Report> :)
<Report> linksrhein: ?
<linksrhein_> forget it :-)
<lupita> yeah, what was that?
<xFistRaisedx> duende, how could you merge those 2?
<linksrhein_> an example for being inaccurate
<lupita> ah!
<Report> ahh
<Report> heheh
<xFistRaisedx> hehe
<duende> i meant: "Correct inaccurate or malicious information, rectify misinformation"
<duende> instead of making 2 separate points out of it
<duende> but that's not really important
<Report> well ok for me..
<Report> next one?
<duende> ok
<xFistRaisedx> ok
<lupita> ok
<Report> Legal disclaimer
<Report> The Translation Tool is an interactive site offering inclusive participation. All postings are the responsibility of the individual authors and not of the Translation Tool members. Although Translation Tool volunteers attempt to ensure accuracy of the newswire, they take no responsibility legal or otherwise for the contents of the open publishing site. Mention of external web sites or services is for information purposes only and constitutes neither an end
<Report> orsement nor a recommendation.
<duende> ok
<lupita> accurate
<linksrhein_> ok
<xFistRaisedx> ok
<duende> lupita, you mean the term "accuracy" is not ideal?
<-- Report has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
--> Report (irc@localhost) has joined #translationtool
<lupita> no no. The whole sentence sounds great, it's accurate ;)
<duende> ok :-)
<Report> opss

---

ChanServ gives channel operator status to Report
<linksrhein_> anything i forgot in this version? http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Devel/TranslationToolEditorialPolicy
<duende> it's ok for me
<lupita> it's fine
<linksrhein_> while i was on holidays i rewrote the whole editorial policy and would like to present it now as an alternative to the one we discussed here...
<linksrhein_> do you want to see it? ;-)
<duende>  /kick linksrhein_
<Report> sure. where is it?
<Report> hehehe
<lupita> go on
<linksrhein_> aaargh!
<linksrhein_> just joking
<linksrhein_> smile !
<Report> aahh..
<Report> <duende>  /kick linksrhein_
<Report> :)))
<linksrhein_> hehe
<Report> so. next point?
<Report> COMMENTS:
<Report> During irc meeting, Lize stresses the necessity to protect us against possible abuse from people who could make money with the translations done with the Translation Tool.
* Report posted the sentence below this legal disclaimer introduction
* duende doesn't see any other possible protection than what already exists...
<Report> whos lize?
<lupita> je je. my time's up guys. they're kicking me out of here so have to go. It was a pleasure. take care and behave. besos, lupita.
<xFistRaisedx> wow, it's teresting
<xFistRaisedx> adios lupita :)
<Report> bye!!!
<duende> thx lupita
<linksrhein_> thanks for being here, lupita
<-- lupita has quit (Quit: lupita)
<duende> lize is a belgian girl working with imc-italy and with video projects
<duende> she made this comment during one of the previous meeting
<Report> ah. where is all the other volunteers?
<Report> where are
<duende> it's always difficult to gather people :(
<Report> yeah.. :(.. so. does anyone have other idea for protection?
<linksrhein_> I think there is no reason to be afraid with these editorial guidelines
<linksrhein_> and I think something isn't worth translating, i wouldn't do it
<linksrhein_> what i translate will be free accessible by anyone
<linksrhein_> so you can't make big money with it
<Report> yeah..and the articles will be posted on indymedia., it will be on copyleft or creative commons
<linksrhein_> shall we use such a license as well?
* duende agrees to leave the edito policy as it is now
<Report> humm
<Report> what license? creative commons?
<Report> i prefer that all translations can be freely posted everywhere
<linksrhein_> for example. but we can discuss it in the future, not today
<Report> yeah.. better
* duende agrees to discuss it in a later meeting
* Report is tired :)
<Report> next comment?
<Report> next comment is from you duende
<Report> Duende: In the openposting guidelines, can we replace: "Repeated : content that is reposted or text that was originally a comment posted as a report." by something like "Repeated : content that is reposted or text that was originally a comment posted as a new translation request or newswire article." Can we add "Posts in the center column that are not translation requests"? And remove "The newswire is designed to generate a news resource" in the sentence "
<Report> Hierarchy : The newswire is designed to generate a news resource, not a notice-board for political parties or any other hierarchically structured organization."
<duende> all the following comments are from me and were already discussed i think
<Report> ok. sorry :)
<Report> whats the next topic?
<duende> don't be sorry! :-)
<duende> i suggest we go directly to the last topic, else we are here for the night!
<linksrhein_> ok
<Report> what was it? that bens proposal?
<Report> sent by email?
<duende> yes
<duende> http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/translation/2004-August/0831-t7.html
<linksrhein_> i think, it depends a little on the (radical) content

---

duende has changed the topic to: TranslationTool meeting HERE AND NOW http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/translation/2004-August/0831-t7.html
<duende> what do you mean linksrhein_ ?
<linksrhein_> but for me it's ok to give them a seperate place on the tool
<linksrhein_> how radical it is
<Report> well. can we have a separate part for films? they are usually bigger
<duende> what's the difference on that field with the usual articles?
<linksrhein_> Report: the TT can only be used for text
<duende> Ben writes: "Unlike the indymedia translation tool, it would need to archive
<duende> translations and the generated subtitle files for people to find and
<duende> download to apply to the relevent film (which they would download from
<duende> elsewhere)."
<linksrhein_> duende: i think they want to organise thei own editorial poolicy in their section
<duende> i think it's a problem if many ppl have to come on the translationtool to download stuff
<duende> ok, i get it now
<Report> ahh. i thought he wanted to keep only the transcriptions.. not the movies
<linksrhein_> what is a generated subtitle file?
<duende> good question :-)
<duende> everybody understood this part in a different way apparently :-)
<Report> lol
<linksrhein_> if it's a text, then there should be no technical problem
<linksrhein_> if it's  a movie, they need a streaming server or something
<Report> i understand like this "is it ok to have a specific part for transcriptions, thou they are longer than normal articles"
<duende> but what would be the use of downloadable "subtitles" if they are under the form of a text file?
<duende> i mean, nobody will read the text while watching the video...
<linksrhein_> ... the relevent film (which they would download from ..."
<linksrhein_> elsewhere
<linksrhein_> we can ask them
<linksrhein_> we try to help them
<Report> well. if he only wants this section he can post it on "Internal and organisational texts" isnt it?
<duende> another question is do we want to make content permanently available for download on the TT?
<linksrhein_> if they want a section we might be responsible at least a bit for their content
<duende> we can create a new section as well for the translation work, not sure about the downloads
<linksrhein_> we can create a section "subtitles"
<Report> yeah.. im confused now.. whats up with downloads?
<duende> yes, we would have some responsibility...
* duende is not sure about those downloads
<Report> me neither
<linksrhein_> otherwise they can have the TT technology and contact the provider for an own acocunt -> no responibility for us
<duende> ppl should download them and "apply to the relevant film"...
<duende> has anybody an idea of the sort of content they have in mind?
<Report> btw, whats the technology of TT? hehe. it isnt MIR, right?
<linksrhein_> Zope
<duende> we can also create a section "subtitles" and ask them to state clearly that we are not responsible for it
* duende is rather pro helping them with the translations
<duende> and i have more a problem with the (possible) downloads
<linksrhein_> who is owner of the domain? indymedia seattle?
<duende> dunno
<linksrhein_> in germany also the provider is responsible
<duende> :(
<linksrhein_> which is my contact
<linksrhein_> he will come to us  for "our project" if police comes to him, not to this video group
<duende> can you get problems even if you remove the potential contested stuff as soon as requested?
<duende> i mean, it's open publishing...
<linksrhein_> sometimes
<duende> :(
<linksrhein_> socalled "unterlassungserklrungen" do cost money immediately
<Report> wow..big word :)
<linksrhein_> but we shouldn't take this as a reason to say no
<linksrhein_> we contact them and find a solution
<duende> yes, i don't think we can decide anything write now
<duende> write > right ;-)
<Report> hehehe
<Report> so. thats it? anything else?
<linksrhein_> nope
<Report> thats sad..
<linksrhein_> let's thank Report for her? great job
<duende> do we still have a few minutes to talk about what to do next with the TT?
<linksrhein_> grrr ;-)
<duende> lol
<duende> sorry :-p
<linksrhein_> :-P
<Report> thanks report for what?
<Report> :))
<Report> heheh
<duende> we can discuss this by mail :-)
<duende> thanks report! :-))))
<Report> i didnt do anything
<linksrhein_> so we have founded an offical project!

-- DuendeBxl - 25 Sep 2004