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Log of IRC meeting on TranslationTool on 27th Aug 2003

Session Start: Wed Aug 27 08:49:32 2003
Session Ident: #translationtool
12 12Successfully joined 11#translationtool 12on 11Wednesday 12at 118:49am
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12 Created on 11Wednesday, August 27th, 2003 12at 118:49am
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16:48 * Topic is 'this evening: irc-meeting! 6 pm GMT/ 8pm CEST, here'
16:48 * Set by linksrhein! on Wed Aug 27 12:13:01
12 Channel Modes: 11+tn
12 Created on 11Wednesday, August 27th, 2003 12at 1112:11pm
16:58 @linksrhein hi
16:58 @linksrhein ausgepennt? ;-)
17:03] A-mann^out (irc@localhost) is now known as AlsterWasserMann
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18:48 ab-tired h
18:48 ab-tired see you later
19:05 AlsterWasserMann me too :)
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19:28 ab-tired huhu linksrheini
19:28 ab-tired ;-)
19:28linksrhein huhu :-)
19:29 linksrhein ich muss gleich nochmal raus und mich neu einloggen
19:29 linksrhein hab son komischen XChat client ausprobiert
19:30 linksrhein wg. ssl und so
19:30 linksrhein mag ich aber grad gar nich
19:32 linksrhein bis gleich
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19:42] luna ( has joined. 12\xAB113 people12\xBB
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19:45 linksrhein ... phone ...
19:46 luna sorry?
19:48 linksrhein back
19:56 linksrhein ab: warst du die erste hier?
19:59] st3 ( has joined. 12\xAB115 people12\xBB
19:59 luna hi st3
19:59 linksrhein hi :-)
20:00 * st3 in a dark place sat on a pack of cookies for dogs typin on a mac keyboard remapped us
20:00 st3 hi all :)
20:00 st3 so, somebody told me there are 8 o clock
20:00 st3 is it right?
20:00 linksrhein yes
20:01 st3 are is
20:01 st3 or are
20:01 st3 i dunno
20:01 st3 :)
20:01 luna yes! but nobody here :-(
20:01 st3 i'll call blicero and look for maria...
20:01 st3 just a moment
20:02 linksrhein what shall we do with the op-rights?
20:03 * st3 falls with the face in dog cookies
20:03 st3 hrm
20:03 linksrhein haha
20:03 st3 i think that since we're in 4/5
20:03 st3 this is not a problem
20:04 * st3 has a leg linked with some rj cables to a switch
20:04 linksrhein i would like to set topics etc.
20:05 st3 so nobody has the op
20:05 st3 hrm
20:06 st3 we could all exit and reenter?
20:06 st3 no we couldn't
20:06 st3 cause amann is shopping
20:06 luna topics.
20:06 st3 ok
20:06 st3 so we should begin?
20:06 luna why reenter?
20:07 st3 to get the op
20:07 st3 but ok, let's begin
20:08 st3 so, i saw that the first topic should be the collaboration with italy imc
20:08 luna 1what's an op?
20:08 linksrhein moment
20:08 st3 (st3 stacks)
20:09 st3 ok
20:09 st3 luna: operator status
20:09 luna @st3: first come first serve?
20:09 luna :-)
20:10 linksrhein shall we introduce us to each other first? (interest in translation work...)
20:10 st3 ok
20:10 st3 who begins?
20:10 luna ok
20:10 luna linky!
20:10 st3 yup
20:11 linksrhein i guess thats me :)
20:11 linksrhein so
20:11 linksrhein as always
20:11 linksrhein german translation work member
20:11 linksrhein customizer of the translation tool
20:11 linksrhein end
20:11 linksrhein :)
20:11 luna me?
20:11 linksrhein yes
20:12 luna also member of indy-de
20:12 luna translations from and to english, very poor spanisch
20:12 luna that's it
20:12 st3 me
20:12 luna :-)
20:12 st3 i'm from imc italy
20:12 st3 hrm
20:12 st3 italy techie
20:13 st3 translations from/to english french italian
20:13 st3 very poor spanish
20:13 st3 and no more than 30 words of german :D
20:13 st3 that's all i think
20:14 st3 oh
20:14 st3 i'm the guy
20:14 st3 that should translate zope into italian
20:14 st3 that's all
20:14 linksrhein hehe
20:14 st3 :D
20:14 linksrhein a-man stillshopping?
20:15 st3 and ab so tired?
20:15 linksrhein ab dont know
20:15 linksrhein maybe i say something about her?
20:15 st3 ok
20:16 linksrhein she is from imc uk/scotland
20:16 linksrhein translates sometimes from german to english
20:16] cpunkpunk ( has joined. 12\xAB116 people12\xBB
20:16 cpunkpunk hi there
20:16 linksrhein (german native speaker)
20:16 cpunkpunk cpnk from it/uk here
20:17 linksrhein already uses the translation tool (has mod rights)
20:17 linksrhein visited a zope lecture yesterday :-)
20:17 linksrhein end
20:18 linksrhein hi cpnk smile do you want to introduce yourself / your interes in translation work?
20:19 cpunkpunk yup sorry to interrupt ya i didn't know u were in the middle of something :)
20:19 cpunkpunk and yep im interested in helping this translation tool
20:19 cpunkpunk i mean i give my eng-ita ita-eng skill available :)
20:20 cpunkpunk or whatever else is needed
20:21 luna end?
20:21 st3 ok
20:21 st3 so i think we can now begin
20:21 cpunkpunk how is the development of this tool going?
20:21 cpunkpunk sorry yes END :)
20:21 st3 isn't it?
20:21 luna whats the topics
20:21 cpunkpunk consenso/agree
20:21 st3 cpunkpunk: zope is a tool, written in perl
20:21 linksrhein topic proposals were
20:22 linksrhein st3: in python
20:22 st3 yep
20:22 st3 oh sorry :D
20:22 luna thanks
20:22 st3 cpunkpunk: you can see it in action at
20:23 cpunkpunk it's a human translation engine i guess... and not some automated bablefish crap right?
20:23 linksrhein correct
20:23 luna first collaboration: how can we all use and help in the work with the tool?
20:23 st3 no, la prima che hai detto :)
20:23 cpunkpunk k
20:23 ab-tired hey I am also here
20:23 ab-tired very sleepy though
20:23 luna hi
20:23 linksrhein :)
20:23 st3 ab-tired take some guarana
20:24 st3 :)
20:24 ab-tired Anarchobabe from ImcScotland/ImcUK
20:24 cpunkpunk ab-tired: u in london? maybe?
20:24 ab-tired translating engl/german german/engl
20:24 ab-tired Edinburgh :-)
20:25 cpunkpunk anyway so ppl post their article that wanna have translated, stating into which language they do want it and who ever is available would book it to do? am i right?
20:25 ab-tired and understand a bit of french, therefor guess a bit of spanish/italian occassionally ;-)
20:25 cpunkpunk ab-tired: good good
20:25 ab-tired end
20:25 st3 cpunkpunk smtg like that
20:26 st3 but i'd propose some extra ftr
20:26 st3 s
20:26 cpunkpunk propose or develop? :)
20:26 luna what?
20:27 cpunkpunk question: r we gonna coordinate ea by ML or something?
20:28 linksrhein ML?
20:28 cpunkpunk cause i dunno yet how the all thing is set up but i guess it would be cool to recive emails when a translation is needed and when somebody is gonna do it
20:28 cpunkpunk ML = mailing list
20:28 st3 cpunkpunk maybe both
20:29 linksrhein for all the features see:
20:29 linksrhein email notification is possible
20:29 st3 linksrhein: were you managing to use wasn't it?
20:29 luna actually there is such a thing. but the last days i didn't received such mails anymore. but it is very silent anyway.
20:30 linksrhein st3: yes, for management, not for thr translation work itself
20:30 linksrhein luna: the reason is ...
20:31 cpunkpunk well maybe a majordomo ftr could post email w/ articles to who is available to translate it into that language from that language
20:31 linksrhein i tried to repair the header of the mails
20:31 linksrhein and switched it off for a while
20:32 cpunkpunk once an article is posted i meant.. or r we all supposed to check it online?
20:32 luna i check it online regularly
20:32 cpunkpunk i c
20:33 linksrhein it should be possible to send notifications to different lists, depending on language/topic criteria maybe
20:33 luna but if you click to "to do" then you have all the work listed there and pick up what you want and if you want
20:34 linksrhein further: there are some rss-feeds
20:34 cpunkpunk luna: i c
20:35 st3 i have to go just a moment
20:35 luna ok. should we now begin with the topics? or are there other general questions
20:36 st3 net matters :/
20:37 linksrhein st3: before you go ...
20:37 linksrhein i ve seen lots of translation work going on on www-it
20:37] Anna (irc@localhost) has joined. 12\xAB117 people12\xBB
20:37 linksrhein are ppl there interested to use the translation tool?
20:38 linksrhein end
20:38 * Anna is still busy, but will be here in a while..
20:39 luna ok. any quetschions?
20:39 linksrhein st3?
20:39 luna hmmm
20:39 linksrhein do they wait for translation of the gui?
20:39] Amann^shopPING (irc@localhost) is now known as AlsterWasserMann
20:39 cpunkpunk linksrhein: i think he's gone
20:40 linksrhein shit
20:40 cpunkpunk but back soon
20:40 linksrhein to slow :-)
20:41 luna okay. 2 new participants! do you want to introduce yourself?
20:41 st3 linksrhein ppl interested was 2
20:41 st3 and not here now for some problems
20:42 AlsterWasserMann hi! i'm from imc germany, co-founder of the DispatchWorkingGroup, trying to improve the dispatch process, and an indymedia noobee.
20:43 linksrhein anna?
20:44 AlsterWasserMann [20:38] * Anna is still busy, but will be here in a while..
20:44 linksrhein so, we go on in the meanwhile?
20:45 AlsterWasserMann i can't say
20:45 luna we should. she said she's busy?
20:45 AlsterWasserMann yes
20:46 AlsterWasserMann 7 mins ago she said so
20:46 luna okay. how to begin now? cooperation?
20:46 cpunkpunk guys i gotta rush in a bit for a bit, im available for eng-ita ita-eng and to activly work on the translationtool, i'll have word w/ st3 later on if im not joining here later... i nthe meanwhile stay in touch..
20:46 cpunkpunk c ya later and sorry to interrupt again :)
20:46 cpunkpunk st3: a dopo
20:47] cpunkpunk ( has parted. (Client exiting) 12\xAB116 people12\xBB
20:47 luna okay
20:47 luna eeem
20:49 luna actually it's clear how we could work together, no? just using the tool together.
20:49 linksrhein so maybe cooperation with imc uk now?
20:49 AlsterWasserMann deid i miss much so far?
20:49 luna maybe we should coordinate more often via the lists
20:49 luna @alsterman: nothing! punk has left. nothing else
20:50 luna ab?
20:51 AlsterWasserMann thx luna
20:51 linksrhein not here
20:51 luna has she left?
20:51 linksrhein dont know
20:51 - [ab-tired] FINGER
20:52 luna as far as i know there is no contact to any uk-translators. i may be wrong.
20:52 linksrhein you mean besides ab?
20:53 luna sure.
20:53 linksrhein ab seams not to be with us, so maybe we try with the topic outreach?
20:53 luna linksrhein: you wrote an email to various lists. any responds?
20:54 linksrhein no
20:54 st3 sorry i'm in trouble with the net here again
20:54 st3 linksrhein we forwarded it on italy list
20:54 st3 anyway
20:54 st3 gaietta and blicero seemed to be interested in
20:55 linksrhein yes :-)
20:55 linksrhein just ppl coming to the irc channel asking questions ...
20:55 st3 so... what do u wanna do?
20:55 linksrhein neo , maria wanetd to contact barcelona
20:55 st3 i would propose
20:56 AlsterWasserMann do you have a topic list or agenda for this chat?
20:57 AlsterWasserMann or is it first come first serve?
20:57 linksrhein st3: so we sapmmed global lists once
20:57 linksrhein we could do it a second time
20:57 luna
20:57 linksrhein design banners
20:58 linksrhein make an entry to
20:58 linksrhein tell
20:58] gaietta (irc@localhost) has joined but is a 4Clone of Anna 12 12\xAB117 people12\xBB
20:58] gaietta is also in channels 12\xAB11 #indymedia 12\xBB
20:58 AlsterWasserMann thx luna
20:58 gaietta hi all
20:59 AlsterWasserMann hi gaietta
20:59 linksrhein hi :-)
21:00 linksrhein please introduce yourself :-)
21:00 gaietta ?
21:00 st3 i would propose
21:00 st3 to do this meeting
21:00 st3 another time
21:00 st3 recontacting more ppl
21:00 st3 and use the mailing list in the mean while
21:00 st3 do you agree?
21:01 st3 linksrhein ok ok
21:01 st3 you r right
21:01 AlsterWasserMann why give up a meeting with 7 people on it?
21:01 st3 right
21:01 gaietta we could discuss and fix another irc imeeting
21:01 gaietta if there aren't enough ppl
21:02 luna we just have to BEGIN!
21:03 linksrhein and we have work to do already now
21:03 linksrhein for example
21:03 linksrhein who designs a banner?
21:03 linksrhein who makes a draft for the outreach-emal?
21:04 st3 ok ok
21:04 st3 you r right
21:04 linksrhein who tells
21:04 luna thats new to me!
21:04 linksrhein they direct volunteers to the right contacts
21:05 AlsterWasserMann linksrhein for the outreach email, you may remeber we had the same topic on the dispatch chat yesterday. maybe we could add a few sentences to our mail and ypu could add a few of us to yours ? or we could combine it again
21:05 linksrhein sure
21:06 linksrhein so a-man i i write this email and send it to global lists
21:06 linksrhein a-man and i
21:06 luna and what's it all about the new banner?
21:06 AlsterWasserMann we should do it the same way as yesterday, just with more time in advance and bounce mail handling and stuff
21:06 linksrhein ok
21:06 AlsterWasserMann yeah, what about the banner? where will it be displayed?
21:07 st3 sorry g2g noe
21:07 linksrhein i remember anna once made the proposal to ask (ithink) init to design a banner
21:07 st3 ill be back in a while
21:07] gaietta \xABirc@localhost\xBB has Quit iRC (Leaving11)
21:07 linksrhein just for the startpage of different imcs
21:08] st3 \\xBB has Quit iRC (BitchX: the right choice for a healthy pet11)
21:08] Zapata (irc@localhost) has joined but is a 4Clone of Anna & AlsterWasserMann 12 12\xAB116 people12\xBB
21:08] Zapata is also in channels 12\xAB11 @#uk @#wvl @#tech #sfkids @#mir @#indymedia @#belgium 12\xBB
21:08 * Zapata will be merely lurking
21:08 luna furchtbar!
21:08 luna jetzt hocken die deutschen allein in einem internationalen chat! juhu!
21:08 AlsterWasserMann oic
21:08 linksrhein but maybe its enough to have an entry in the list
12\xAB11chrisc 12in11 #uk 12at11 21:0812\xBB AlsterWasserMann: i speak no other languages... but i'm following your progress with interest :-)
21:09 linksrhein this is already prepared.
21:09 linksrhein just a mail to blicero and we will be added
21:11 linksrhein so again: maybe we stop the meeting?
21:11 luna what about i just visited the site but it's not available
21:12 linksrhein for me it works
21:12 linksrhein
21:14 linksrhein i'm quite disappointed at the moment
21:15 luna me too. eigentlich k\xF6nnen wir auch wieder deutsch schreiben, oder?
21:15 linksrhein too many ppl are here and are not here at the same time
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21:15 Boduognat hello..
21:15 luna hi
21:16 AlsterWasserMann omg, a foreigner!
21:16 Boduognat What is the meaning of this?
21:16 linksrhein hi :-)
21:16 Boduognat yeah..
21:16 Boduognat "Old Europe" here..
21:16 Boduognat the "Axis of Weasels".. ring a bell?
21:16 luna sorry?
21:16 Boduognat never mind..
21:16] Boduognat ( has parted. 12\xAB116 people12\xBB
21:17 luna alles klar!
21:17 linksrhein so we stop the meeting and leave for private talks?
21:18 luna hmm
21:20 luna we could first discuss the content and the distribution of this invitation mail
21:21 linksrhein ok, any proposals?
21:22 linksrhein luna?
21:22 luna a short description on how the tool works, that we want to get it international, that it's a great possibility to cooperate
21:22 luna yes
21:22 linksrhein ok
21:23] st3 ( has joined. 12\xAB117 people12\xBB
21:23 * st3 is happy, the net works now
21:24 luna maybe, that a little response would be great and if anybody is interested in an irc chat, so that we could all plan it in advance
21:24 luna maybe it works better that way.
21:25 linksrhein st3: we started collecting what should be written in the outreach mail
21:25 linksrhein ok
21:25 luna maybe put the topics into the mail and not as a link, so that they can see, what it's all about!
21:25 linksrhein good
21:25 * st3 agrees
21:26 luna emmm
21:27 luna maybe pointing out, that its a possibility to SPREAD news all over the world. there could be so many different nationalities working on the tool. something happens in india, one posts it on the tool, someone picks it up, anybody else sends it to imcs in usa maybe.
21:28 * Anna is finally here, sorry
21:28 st3 luna: i thought about smtg similar
21:28 luna cool
21:28 st3 i think that every imc could make a syndicate space
21:29 st3 with a mysql table, or a perl script
21:29 st3 that would tell translation system
21:29 st3 to send it articles about a topic in its language
21:30 linksrhein end?
21:30 luna to the tool or other way round?
21:30 st3 yes, end, xcuse me
21:31 st3 luna: to send articles to imc syndicate space
21:31 st3 or look for a way to retrieve sindycate news from the translation tool straight
21:31 st3 syndicate
21:32 luna would be great too! is that possible?
21:32 st3 i think so
21:32 st3 i could work on this
21:32 st3 we could do it with rdf/rss
21:33 st3 a method already used widely in indymedia
21:34 luna aha
21:34 linksrhein we should have in mind that we still dont have python programers in the project
21:35 st3 i have some c and php skills
21:35 st3 but no python :|
21:35 Anna isn't zapata the person to talk to about syndication?
21:35 st3 it's right but... we should not we trying to migrate to sf-active?
21:35 st3 i think it has similar features and works better for smtg
21:36 st3 for example, the way it's possible to admin it
21:36 st3 or the fact it's coded in php
21:36 linksrhein why not, every cms could implement this functionality
21:36 st3 cms==imc?
21:37 linksrhein content management system
21:37 st3 oh ok
21:37] gaietta ( has joined but is a 4Clone of st3 12 12\xAB118 people12\xBB
21:37 linksrhein who would do the migration?
21:37 st3 i could
21:37 st3 hrmm
21:37 st3 but
21:37 st3 sf-active works with mysql
21:37 st3 you know
21:38 st3 we could do it on stallman?
21:38 st3 i have no access at all on stallman
21:38 linksrhein end?
21:38 st3 so i dunno anything about the way the db works on it
21:39 st3 end, but i made some questions :)
21:39 linksrhein maybe to zapata? :-)
21:39 Anna is there anyone who can answer them?
21:40 st3 ps we could migrate it on ahimsa, i have access on it and ahimsa has mysql, but i dunno if you all agree
21:40 st3 (do you?)
21:40 Anna i have no clue what you're talking about :)
21:40 linksrhein me?
21:40 st3 you all :)
21:41 linksrhein anna: we speak about the migration to another codebase since more ppl could develop software in php than python
21:41 gaietta where is it at the moment'
21:42 Anna linksrhein, thanks. i meant that technically this is way beyond me..
21:42 linksrhein my opinion ...
21:43 linksrhein if ppl exist who would migrate it ...
21:43 linksrhein they should start developing ...
21:43 linksrhein we use the translation tool as it is until the moment comes to switch
21:44 linksrhein than we use with a new codebase
21:44 linksrhein end
21:45 linksrhein hello?
21:45 st3 hm
21:46 st3 i think we should get more feedback about a possible migration
21:47 luna actually nothing changes on the site. or am i wrong?
21:47 ab-tired In my opion we should try to link translation tool with twiki, so that single translations can become a cooperative projects, rather than one persons workloads
21:47 st3 what do ya mean for nothing?
21:48 AlsterWasserMann did i hear php?
21:48 st3 AlsterWasserMann: yea you did
21:48 st3 =)
21:48 AlsterWasserMann yummy
21:49 st3 ab-tired: i think that twiki could be used for discussion and coordination about the tool
21:49 st3 AlsterWasserMann: it's good. made with real honey!
21:49 st3 :)
21:49 ab-tired I think it could be of good use hwilst translating articles too, if it could be a bit more flexible?
21:49 ab-tired too tired to think sorry
21:50 ab-tired just for some futuristic utopias :-)
21:50 st3 ab-tired: think so =)
21:50 * AlsterWasserMann loves php with honey but thinks it's even good without it.
21:51 st3 ab-tired: i think that twiki increase the work needed for admins and translators
21:51 st3 and gives nothing back
21:51 st3 really
21:51 linksrhein so a-man and st3: would you cooperate on developing a php/mysql system with similar / better functionality?
21:51 st3 furthermore, it's more direct and easy to use a sf-active translation tool
21:52 st3 linksrhein: sure i would
21:52 linksrhein a-man?
21:52 AlsterWasserMann well, theoretically for sure
21:52] gaietta \\xBB has Quit iRC (Client Exiting11)
21:52 AlsterWasserMann but i want to develop the dispatch system as well
21:53 AlsterWasserMann so this might make me a bit short of free time
21:53 linksrhein :)
21:53 AlsterWasserMann but generally: yes
21:53 linksrhein for me it would meen ...
21:53 st3 i think that sf-active would be very good to do so
21:54 linksrhein to work less on documentation/layout/gui-translation in the meantime
21:54 st3 and i think that blicero and i could cooperate to hack it a bit and make it working for our needs
21:54 ab-tired st3. Idisagree strongly on that matter, but don't want to pursue differences in this issue any longer. twiki is good for interactivity; it will be good for translations and for every project posing heavy workload for one person but will make task much easier when more persons participate
21:56 * AlsterWasserMann will make some tea now but be back in 5 mins to see how the discussion is developing
21:56 linksrhein so do we have a decision on migration already?
21:57 * Anna wonders whether this is a structured discussion 'cause she has another idea to tell, later
21:57 linksrhein something like migration yes (asap) but codebase sf-active?
21:58 linksrhein or maybe mir? (looking to zapata)
21:58 Zapata hmmm
21:58 Zapata what's this about exactly...
21:58 Zapata I'm not really paying attention...
21:59 linksrhein actually i doesnt make sense to migrate to sf-active and later mir :-)
21:59 st3 ab-tired: i think that an user get very confused with a twiki system
21:59 Zapata what do you want to migrate to sf-active?
22:00 linksrhein translation tool funvtionality
22:00 st3 and it's not customizable and localizable as zope or sf-active would do
22:00 st3 Zapata: u can see it in action at translations.indymedia.or
22:00 st3 Zapata: u can see it in action at
22:00 Zapata but is sf-active capable of doing such a thing?
22:01 st3 Zapata: sf-active offer same features as zope
22:01 st3 and adds more
22:01 Zapata ?
22:01 Zapata what features?
22:01 st3 a more powerful administration
22:01 st3 you don't know it?
22:01 Zapata more powerfull than ?
22:01 st3 than zope, o course
22:02 Zapata this current system is done in zope?
22:02 st3 yes it is
22:02 st3 i said
22:02 st3 Zapata: u can see it in action at
22:02 st3 =)
22:02 Zapata I'm looking at it...
22:02 Zapata but...
22:02 Zapata can sf-active handle translations of articles?
22:03 st3 as this is currently done, sure
22:03 linksrhein its not about machine translation :-)
22:03 st3 i mean
22:03 Zapata how is it currently done?
22:03 Zapata links: I know...
22:04 st3 you can post an article (the article to be translated) and what we now call a comment (the article translation and whether it's to be revised other infos and so on)
22:04 Zapata ok...
22:04 ab-tired I just want to say that the workload for one person to translate an article might be too heavy sometimes, tresulting in key infomration not being translated, if there could be a system where you can drop your half translated articles with original and what you have already got other people could contribute to this already made effort
22:05 ab-tired might be technically be challenging to realise though :-)
22:05 Zapata ;-)
22:05 Zapata you're right...
22:05 st3 ab-tired: you r right...
22:05 Zapata "we" should plot out a path that eventually leads to a system with such features...
22:05 Zapata but for the relative short term, it'll be too much to ask...
22:06 st3 but anyway i don't think twiki it's the right solution for your problem
22:06 st3 we could make some hacks to sf-active
22:06 linksrhein ab: you can use wiki sysntax in arcticles already and work together on one article
22:06 Zapata twiki has some of those features...
22:06 st3 to make articles editable in a more structured mode
22:06 Zapata but lacks others...
22:06 * AlsterWasserMann is back
22:06 st3 and ppl sure could translate parts of an article as separated comments
22:07 st3 yea, at this point it would be quite hard to automatize for syndication
22:07 st3 but, with twiki it wouldn't be certainly easier
22:07 ab-tired for a translations indymedia we would need a bit more flexible ? cms?
22:08 ab-tired fro a user perspective it might be good to limit publishing to registered users only e.g.
22:08 ab-tired you might need a multiple language search function?
22:08 st3 you're talkin about twiki?
22:09 st3 ab-tired: sure i might need
22:09 ab-tired well no translation imc cms in general
22:09 * AlsterWasserMann reading chat log from when he was gone
22:09 ab-tired well I shut up too tired
22:09 Anna i think twiki can be a problem when a lot of translations need to be done in a short time range. like during a summit
22:10 Anna i really like it, but we tried tha and it is difficult to keep things in order
22:10 Zapata did any of you btw look at the way biotechimc handles translations?
22:11 st3 Zapata: i did not
22:11 Anna i didn't..
22:11 Zapata it's not exactly what you are looking for...
22:11 st3 why?
22:11 Zapata but it's like an imc site with the possibility of adding translations to articles...
22:11 Zapata
22:11 Zapata for the test version... (so you can safely try it out)...
22:11 Zapata I'm still not satisfied with how things look in admin
22:12 Anna ha! my idea that i'm trying to get throught wih\xB4th for 1,5 years now!
22:12 Zapata ;-)
22:12 Anna thank you!
22:12 Zapata it was inspired by somewhat similar ideas by multiple people...
22:12 st3 yea, isn't really what we're lookin for
22:12 Zapata like you at the berling meeting...
22:12 Zapata and like imc ch, imc eh, and clara
22:13 Anna you have no idea how glad you are making me with this!
22:13 Zapata lol
22:13 Zapata I was kind of assuming clara had shown it to you...
22:14 Anna she didn't. but maybe she didn't know i had had this idea ages ago :)
22:14 Zapata hmmm
22:14 Zapata I think I told her...
22:14 Anna it's alright :)
22:14 Zapata ;-)
22:14 st3 ehr
22:14 st3 ...
22:14 linksrhein may i interrupt for structuring a bit?
22:14 Anna i'm sorry..
22:14 st3 linksrhein: i'd be glad :)
22:15 linksrhein so..
22:15 linksrhein we had the proposal to change to another codebase ...
22:15 linksrhein we then turned to tech-talk - maybe not interesting for all of us smile ...
22:16 st3 ok
22:16 linksrhein maybe the techies could find themselves in another meeting ...
22:17 linksrhein decide on what codebase could be the best ...
22:17 linksrhein then ..
22:17 linksrhein we had the discussion twiki versus openposting
22:17 linksrhein no agreement was possible
22:18 st3 why?
22:18 linksrhein then we have anna who wanted to make a different point
22:18 st3 and
22:18 linksrhein end
22:18 luna i'm pro openposting
22:18 st3 oops excuse me for i've interrupted you
22:18 * st3 stacks
22:18 luna cause the postings appear on one spot. and everybody can find it.
22:18 * Zapata raises hand
22:19 luna twiki is really
22:19 luna yes
22:19 st3 the discussion about the codebase that we'd use
22:19 luna confusing from time to time. to find the page you want to work on.
22:19 st3 it doesn't seem to me just a tech-talk
22:19 * Anna is withdrawing her point - it was just mentioned :)
22:19 st3 we must consider our needs, our knowledge, the time we have to develop it
22:19 st3 end
22:20 st3 should i do the moderator?
22:20 * st3 stacks Zapata
22:20 Zapata well...
22:20 Zapata what I want to say is...
22:20 Zapata that you all should distinguish between short term goals and long term goals...
22:21 Zapata short term goals: a system to work with in the very near future... it won't be perfect, but it'll be just a bit better than nothing...
22:21 Zapata long term goals: a good system, fit to your needs...
22:22 Zapata by doing a codebase switch now, before you really know yourself what kind of system you need and how to get it, seems to me to be helping neither the short term goal, nor the long term goal...
22:22 Zapata end
22:22 * st3 raises hand
22:22 * st3 stacks st3
22:22 st3 so...
22:23 st3 our short term goals
22:23 * AlsterWasserMann raises hand
22:23 st3 includes also the localization of the tool
22:23 st3 that means
22:23 st3 we could use zope at the moment
22:23 st3 localize it
22:23 st3 and customize it better
22:24 st3 and ok
22:24 st3 but we should now consider
22:24 st3 our long term goals as well
22:24 st3 cause if we decide to migrate the tool, i'd begin to do it now
22:25 st3 end
22:25 * st3 stacks AlsterWasserMann
22:25 * Zapata raises
22:25 AlsterWasserMann ok, Zapata already saod some
22:25 AlsterWasserMann of what i wanted to deal with
22:25 AlsterWasserMann but here itt is:
22:25 AlsterWasserMann i assume you will want to kick me around the channel for that but i wonder whether this discussion doesn't lead away from the really importing things. for sure it is important to select the codebase and technology for implementation of the system carefully. but i sometimes wonder what exactly is the idea behind the system and wheter we a re still keeping in mind a) what exactly ("translation" is a quite general term) the system is good for, b) whom the system is designed for, c) which scope it is supposed to have etc. i think these considerations need to be made before you actually discuss which codebase you selsct or move to. and it need to be discaussed over and over again to be sure you don't move away from your initial goals.
22:25 AlsterWasserMann (end)
22:25 Zapata alst: it was broken...
22:25 Zapata for, b) whom
22:26 Zapata was the last bit
22:26 AlsterWasserMann oh ok
22:26 AlsterWasserMann b) whom the system is designed for, c) which scope it is supposed to have etc. i think these considerations need to be made before you actually discuss which codebase you selsct or move to. and it need to be discaussed over and over again to be sure you don't move away from your initial goals.
22:26 AlsterWasserMann (end)
22:26 * st3 stacks Zapata
22:26 Zapata ok...
22:26 * st3 raises hand
22:27 Zapata my concern is, that switching codebases now, will take a lot of effort...
22:27 Zapata if you don't know really what you want at the long term, that effort may be wasted: you may have to switch again etc...
22:27 * linksrhein nods
22:27 Zapata once again, these remarks are only in general, I haven't really been following this groups work very well...
22:27 Zapata end
22:27 * st3 stacks st3
22:28 st3 i think, talking about what AlsterWasserMann said
22:28 st3 that we have already discussed
22:28 st3 what our goals related to the term 'translation' are
22:28 st3 but ok
22:28 st3 we sure haven't discussed the c) point
22:29 st3 so we could begin now
22:29 st3 end
22:29 * st3 stacks linksrhein
22:29 * AlsterWasserMann thinks you prolly defined it but i just didn't read enough ;)
22:29 linksrhein why?
22:29 * AlsterWasserMann raises hand
22:29 st3 oops
22:30 * st3 stacks AlsterWasserMann
22:30 AlsterWasserMann is i my turn alrady?
22:30 st3 yes
22:30 AlsterWasserMann well, what i wanted to say with my abc
22:30 AlsterWasserMann is (beside others)
22:30 AlsterWasserMann that i think it would be useful to have a direct interoperability with
22:31 AlsterWasserMann all the CMS's generally used by IMCs
22:31 AlsterWasserMann meaning sf-active and mir
22:31 AlsterWasserMann or whatever may come up inthe futre
22:31 * st3 shakes his hands (it means 'i agree' in imc italy :)
22:32 AlsterWasserMann i think it's important to keep an eye on the user, who would be the trasnbaltator, and another eye on simplicity and the several IMCs beneficials caused by an interface to the transaltion system
22:32 AlsterWasserMann (end)
22:33 * st3 raises and stacks himself
22:33 st3 so
22:33 st3 rdf/rss syndication system
22:33 st3 offers all the features you talked about
22:33 st3 imho
22:33 st3 end
22:33 st3 ps sf-active provides them
1222:34] 11ERROR 12> 421: Unknown command:11 RAISES
22:34 * AlsterWasserMann raises hand
22:34 * st3 stacks AlsterWasserMann
22:34 AlsterWasserMann so interoperability with sf-active is already there?
22:34 AlsterWasserMann and what about mir?
22:35 AlsterWasserMann can you automatically trnasfer content into and from imcs running mir as well?
22:35 AlsterWasserMann (end)
22:35 * st3 raises and stacks
22:35 * Zapata raises
22:35 st3 it's very simple
22:35 st3 to get rdf feeds
22:35 st3 and display them
22:36 st3 it could be done with 3 lines of perls or so
22:36 st3 it could be done with 3 lines of perl or so
22:36 st3 i dunno anything about mir
22:37 st3 but i think the support could be coded in 2 days
22:37 st3 end
22:37 * st3 stacks Zapata
22:37 Zapata ok...
22:37 Zapata well...
22:37 Zapata that way of using rss syndication...
22:37 Zapata may well be considers very lacking for a lot of the people here...
22:37 Zapata may well be considerED very lacking for a lot of the people here...
22:37 Zapata mir also supports importing rss feeds into the db...
22:37 Zapata but...
22:37 Zapata also that is lacking...
22:38 Zapata what I think that is meant by alst, is to be able to have a random imc import an article into their newswire on that imc's request...
22:38 Zapata this requires quite a lot...
22:38 * AlsterWasserMann nods
22:38 Zapata not so much from the translation system, but from all the other codebases...
22:39 * st3 raises
22:39 Zapata some of the mircoders have been thingking about making such a thing... and coordinating it with coders from other codebases...
22:39 Zapata but this will be quite complicated... and it will take plenty of time...
22:39 Zapata end
22:39 * st3 stacks st3
22:39 st3 so
22:39 st3 for you
22:39 st3 there aren't other solutions
22:39 st3 than the one being coded by mir developers
22:39 st3 isn't it?
22:39 st3 and
22:40 st3 what about our short term goals?
22:40 * AlsterWasserMann wonders whom "you" is
22:40 * ab-tired raises hand
22:40 st3 i think they could wait =)
22:40 st3 AlsterWasserMann you Zapata
22:40 * Zapata notes that this idea is more or less originated by the mircoders, but it'll hopefully be a joint mir/sfa/dada project...
22:40 st3 ok
22:40 st3 end
22:40 * st3 stacks ab-tired
22:41 ab-tired dunno but would agree that an imc translation has other needs than a usual imc
22:41 ab-tired therefore in my opinion we should stick with what we have, figure out what we want and then prioritise our needs
22:42 ab-tired andd see then what system is the best for the adaptions which we would need to make
22:42 ab-tired and if anybody is willing and able to make
22:42 ab-tired and then trying to get the closest solution possible
22:42 ab-tired just on the organisatorial level on how to proceed
22:43 ab-tired with decision making
22:43 * Zapata completely agrees with ab
22:43 ab-tired ned
22:43 ab-tired sorry end
22:43 * st3 agrees
22:44 ab-tired Oh not ot forget to draw in the evalutation of the resources we have ;-)
22:44 * AlsterWasserMann agrees to everything Zapata agrees to
22:44 Zapata lol
22:44 Zapata ;-)
22:45 AlsterWasserMann sometimes i just can't hold back ;)
22:45 * ab-tired raises hand
12\xAB11mtoups 12in11 #tech 12at11 22:4512\xBB AlsterWasserMann: yeah what's up?
22:46 st3 oops
22:46 * st3 stacks ab-tired
22:46 ab-tired dunno about zope but was told it is some aplication server- so maybe if we want to achieve short term goals there might be a better application for our needs than squishdot? but no clue about this tech stuff.
22:46 st3 :)))
22:47 * linksrhein raises hand :-)
22:47 ab-tired end
22:47 * st3 stacks linksrhein
22:47 ab-tired ab stacks linksrhein
22:47 linksrhein :-)
22:47 linksrhein just for not to get confused ...
22:48 linksrhein squishdot is a weblog or bulltin bourd system, using zope capabilities
22:48 linksrhein its no cms
22:49 linksrhein if you use a cms, the application server might get much slower
22:49 linksrhein for the given purpose (see feature list) it was sufficient
22:50 linksrhein but if you take different zope-cms, you are at the same point, maybe as sf-active/mir
22:50 linksrhein end
22:50] blicero_lab (irc@localhost) has joined but is a 4Clone of Anna & AlsterWasserMann & Zapata 12 12\xAB118 people12\xBB
22:50] blicero_lab is also in channels 12\xAB11 @#ahimsa 12\xBB
22:50 AlsterWasserMann just with the difference you have no developers for it ;)
22:51 linksrhein zope communities :-)
22:51 st3 blicero_lab: introduce yourself now :)
22:51 AlsterWasserMann i mean customizer then
22:51 linksrhein but yes, u r right :-)
22:52 linksrhein end
22:52 * blicero_lab is blicero, official imc intnl bore, in particular italy imc bore
22:52 ab-tired sorry if sb has already asked it before, but will the system we have now be able to cope with cancun/dsei/noborder days or will there be different systems used?
22:53 * AlsterWasserMann raises hand
22:53 * st3 stacks AlsterWasserMann
22:53 AlsterWasserMann i don't know about the other events
22:53 AlsterWasserMann but dsei will probably make use of baks system again
22:54 AlsterWasserMann as he just returned it should be possible to get it running abit smoother within one and a half week
22:54 AlsterWasserMann when the dsei starts (end)
22:54 * blicero_lab raises hands
22:54 * st3 stacks blicero_lab
22:54 blicero_lab ok
22:55 blicero_lab i mean, AlsterWasserMann
22:55 blicero_lab you mean for tranlation purpose apart from dispatch purpose
22:55 blicero_lab because the point is that i think translation and dispatch whould be kept separated
22:55 blicero_lab end
22:55 AlsterWasserMann i mean for the whole dispatch process which (in my definition) includes translation
22:55 Zapata Should be kept seperated, I presume?
22:56 st3 sure
22:56 blicero_lab Zapata: yes
22:57 AlsterWasserMann any ideas about the other events? cancun and noborder?
22:57 st3 i think zope will fit well for cancun and noborder
22:57 blicero_lab no idea about cancun
22:57 st3 as i think we can't have a functional translation tool
22:57 blicero_lab noborder ??'
22:57 st3 before cancun
22:57 blicero_lab which noborder ?
22:57 st3 sure
22:58 AlsterWasserMann zope=translationtool?
22:58 st3 AlsterWasserMann sure
22:58 AlsterWasserMann blicero_lab there's one planned for germany but i got no details
22:58 AlsterWasserMann ok st3
22:58 st3 i don't see other solutions
22:58 st3 atm
22:59 * linksrhein raises hand
22:59 * st3 stacks linksrhein
22:59 linksrhein st3: what do you mean by functional?
23:00 AlsterWasserMann working?
23:00 linksrhein its is working somehow isnt it?
23:00 AlsterWasserMann yeah i'd say too
23:00 linksrhein st3: what do you mean by functional?
23:02] st3_ ( has joined. 12\xAB119 people12\xBB
23:02 blicero_lab linksrhein st3: what do you mean by functional?
23:02 linksrhein st3: what do you mean by functional?
23:02 st3_ that it works
23:02 linksrhein :)
23:02 linksrhein its is working somehow isnt it?
23:02 st3_ (sorry fuckin dhcp)
23:03 st3_ linksrhein: sure it's workin
23:04 linksrhein so what did you mean, when u said 'as i think we can't have a functional translation tool'
23:04 st3_ ehr
23:04 st3_ sorry
23:04 st3_ a different functional translation tool
23:04 st3_ i'm tired too
23:04 st3_ :|
23:04 linksrhein ok
23:07 linksrhein what shall we do now?
23:08 st3_ i think that i have to take the bike
23:08 st3_ and
23:08 st3_ oops
23:08 st3_ und schlafen gehen
23:08 st3_ :D
23:08 blicero_lab ahaha
23:08 linksrhein :)
23:08 blicero_lab idiot
23:08 blicero_lab :)
23:08 st3_ blicero_lab: du weiBt
23:08 linksrhein so we start ending the meeting?
23:08 linksrhein next date?
23:08 st3_ ich muss den deutsche lernen
23:09 linksrhein summaries?
23:09 AlsterWasserMann german sux0rs ;)
23:09 linksrhein logs
23:09 blicero_lab ich muss deutsch widerstudieren
23:09 blicero_lab :)
23:09 st3_ ich haben den imc italy meeting auch
23:09 st3_ wir
23:10 st3_ nicht ich
23:10 st3_ i'm tired fuckin germans
23:10 st3_ :D
23:10 linksrhein :-)
23:10 st3_ on 5-6-7
23:10 st3_ so we should avoid those days
23:11 st3_ i'd propose to meet us
23:11 st3_ on wed, 3
23:11 linksrhein i have time
23:12 linksrhein who writes the invitation?
23:12 st3_ blicero_lab? AlsterWasserMann? ab-tired? Anna?
23:12 st3_ luna? Zapata?
23:12 luna im on holidays next week again. i don't know if i'm home
23:12 blicero_lab fur mich
23:12 linksrhein :-)
23:13 AlsterWasserMann we can do the outreach mail together linksrhein
23:13 AlsterWasserMann the same way we did it last time
23:13 linksrhein ok
23:13 Anna ha - brugge won!
23:13 blicero_lab kein probel fur jener tag
23:13 AlsterWasserMann each one collects email addresses
23:13 blicero_lab :)
23:13 AlsterWasserMann and writes an introductionary text
23:13 Anna sorry. i'm forced to wathc soccer. a meeting nectw ek, did i get that right?
23:13 Anna next week
23:13 st3_ blicero_lab: non fare il coglions sempre
23:13 st3_ dai
23:14 AlsterWasserMann i'll have to get consent of the dispatch working group on it first, though
23:14 blicero_lab st3 devi sucare
23:14 blicero_lab :)
23:14 st3_ kein probel fur jener tag fur mich auch
23:14 st3_ :D
23:14 st3_ tie'
23:14 AlsterWasserMann so this will be too late for the invitational email
23:16 ab-tired okay
23:17 luna so when?
23:17] st3 \\xBB has Quit iRC (Read error: Connection timed out11)
23:17] st3_ ( is now known as st3
23:17 st3 when...
23:17 st3 so wed, 3
23:17 st3 it's not ok?
23:18 ab-tired not for me; Imc scotland network agm
23:18 st3 ach
23:18 st3 not good
23:18 st3 tue, 2?
23:18 luna lets see, i don't know if i will be home - holidays :-)
23:19 st3 mon, 1?
23:19 linksrhein not with me
23:19 st3 or after the italy and scotland imc meetings
23:19 st3 mon, 8?
23:20 linksrhein ok
23:20 st3 ok for all?
23:20 st3 fur alles? :D
23:20 st3 blicero_lab: 2-1
23:20 st3 :D
23:20 luna yup
23:21 st3 so now i'll take my bike and go home
23:21 linksrhein who writes the summary?
23:22 st3 i'll be very busy in the next days
23:23 st3 so i think i won't be able :|
23:23 linksrhein so i will do it (but short)
23:23 st3 ok
23:23 st3 great
23:23 ab-tired great linksrhein
23:24 linksrhein all write their email adds now?
23:25 ab-tired bye everyone-off to bed; send to for me, please
23:25] ab-tired ( has parted. (Client exiting) 12\xAB117 people12\xBB
23:25 st3
23:25 Anna
23:25 AlsterWasserMann meine kennste ja linksrhein. aber der vollst\xE4ndigkeit halber: alsterwassermannATgmxD0Tde
23:26 luna i'll be out too now! sleep well! see you at the 8th at the latest!
23:26] luna \\xBB has Quit iRC (Leaving11)
23:26 st3 oops
23:26 st3 we haven't decided the time :D
23:26 st3 for me, 19 gmt it's ok
23:26 linksrhein ok
23:26 st3 18 also
23:26 st3 better 19
23:27 st3 (21 berlin - paris - rome)
23:27 st3 (20 for london)
23:28 Anna 20/berlin is better for me
23:28 st3 so 18 gmt
23:28 st3 jetzt will ich am haus gehen
23:28 st3 =)
23:28 st3 brb
23:28 st3 gute nacht
23:28 linksrhein bye st3 :-)
23:28] st3 \\xBB has Quit iRC ([BX] Yo quiero BitchX11)
23:29 linksrhein so we'll see on the 8th?
23:29 linksrhein cu
23:33] linksrhein \\xBB has Quit iRC (ChatZilla 0.8.31 [Mozilla rv:1.4/20030624]11)
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Topic revision: r2 - 03 Sep 2003, LinksRhein
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