<< ImcCEEurope

informal CEE chat 28.09.2006 - last thursday of the month

See: ImcCEEurope#CE_Europe_irc_meetings

Suggested agenda was: ImcCEE060928

Actually discussion is here.

Slow introduction, torun group has tech (LAN) problem

18:51 -!- maxigas [...] has joined #europe
18:54 <@shiar> hi maxigas
18:55 -!- mode/#europe [+o maxigas] by shiar
19:00 <@maxigas> hi shiar 
19:00 <@maxigas> do you know about the CEE meeting today?
19:00 <@shiar> yup
19:00 <@maxigas> is it reaaly today and now?
19:01 <@shiar> supposedly
19:10 <@maxigas> ok i come back at 19:30 and check in coz i have thgz 
     to do in physical space
19:10 <@maxigas> but i have some things to say later
19:10 -!- mag [...] has joined #europe
19:10 <@shiar> k
19:10  * maxigas goes to build a shelf for his squat
19:11 <@shiar> good luck
19:11 < mag> hello
19:13 < mag> hi this is us in torun - right now boud typing - the 
     place we're in has a microsfott @#$%!@#$%#$@5 setup and we don't have 
     our local LAN yet :(  ok back to mag
19:13 <@shiar> how sad :(
19:14 -!- mode/#europe [+o mag] by shiar
19:14 <@maxigas> i'm in from 19:30 from budapest. hi to torun. i'll 
     be back.
19:14 -!- xlenka [...] has joined #europe
19:33 <@maxigas> i'm back.
19:34 <@maxigas> is there only torun, bp present?
19:34 <@maxigas> who is chisc?
19:35 -!- shiar [...] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
19:35 <@maxigas> who's shiar and xlenka?
19:37 <@maxigas> whoa shiar is really paranoid.. :f
19:37 <@maxigas> are you here from torun still?
19:42 -!- mag [...] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF)]

maxigas asks about polish translation of hungary article

19:42 <@maxigas> there are two articles in English on indymedia.org 
     on the riots last week. aren't anyone interested in translating them 
     to polish?
19:45 <@maxigas> or ruda tells me there is already translated something 
19:46 <@maxigas> http://cia.bzzz.net/reakcje_i_dzialania_wegierskich_anarchistow_podczas_zamieszek_antyrzadowych_na_wegrzech
19:46 < xlenka> hi, i have some info from boud and the other people 
     from torun
19:46 < xlenka> they have some technical problem
19:47 -!- angdraug [...] has joined #europe
19:48  * angdraug late, sorry
19:49 <@maxigas> you cannot be late from an anarchist meeting. there 
     are only a few people at the moment. :D
19:49 < angdraug> so I see. I was afraid it was over :)
19:52 < angdraug> just checked my email, it seems noone else from 
     Belarus is going to join us today

answer by boud (after irc finished):

The polish translation of the main text is here: http://cia.bzzz.net/zamieszki_w_budapeszcie_i_reakcja_autonomistow_0 and is linked to as a highlighted comment here: http://pl.indymedia.org/pl/2006/09/23407.shtml

The URL you gave is a polish translation of a related text about the events: http://cia.bzzz.net/reakcje_i_dzialania_wegierskich_anarchistow_podczas_zamieszek_antyrzadowych_na_wegrzech

angdraug talks about belarus situation

19:54 <@maxigas> so you are from belarus?
19:54 < angdraug> yup
19:54 < angdraug> not there at the moment, moved to England for now
19:55 < angdraug> but was there just a couple of months ago, so if 
     it's not freshest news you want, ask away :)
20:00 <@maxigas> ok. what's the freshest news? :j
20:00 <@maxigas> ok what was the freshest new some month ago?
20:01 <@maxigas> can i would really like to talk to you all.. pls 
     write.. :o
20:02 < angdraug> right now, nothing interesting is going on (at least 
     on the surface), people are just returning from summer vacations and 
     recovering spirits from spring's events and G8
20:05 -!- boud [...] has joined #europe
20:05 < angdraug> although, opposition finally decided to make appearance 
     of revitalizing labour movement
20:05 < boud> maxigas, angdraug all hi
20:06 -!- mag [...] has joined #europe
20:06  * boud sorry
20:06 <@maxigas> hi boud
20:06 < angdraug> they are probably trying to capitalize on the problem 
     of labour contracts which seriously reduced job security for everyone
20:06  * boud hoping to get internet working soon - so that all 3 
     of us in the room can join in
20:06 < angdraug> hi boud!
20:07 < angdraug> I will drop off soon: I connected from work and 
     want to go home asap
20:07 < angdraug> back to what's going on in Belarus, if noone minds 
     (just tell me to stop :)
20:08 <@maxigas> angdraug: go on 
20:08  * boud pl: angdraug mowi o co sie dzieje w bialorusi, jesli 
     nikt jest przeciwko
20:09 < angdraug> the new contract system allows employers to refuse 
     renewal of contracts without any grounds, and now that it is in place 
     for about a year, common people are beginning to understand how much 
     pressure it puts on them
20:09 <@maxigas> wow it's the same as CPE in France
20:10 < angdraug> yes, except that our labour movement was completely 
     destroyed in mid-90s, so most we get are isolated spontaneous strikes
20:10 < angdraug> however, there is still hope that some progress 
     will be made in this direction
20:10 < angdraug> but it will need a lot of effort from anarchists 
     in Belarus
20:11 < angdraug> otherwise, the opposition parties will just use 
     this anti-contract sentiment for their own purposes and prophanize 
     the whole idea of workers struggle once again
20:11 < angdraug> as I've said, I don't see much political activity 
     in Belarus at the moment
20:12 < angdraug> the street actions and leaflets have deteriorated 
     into political flash-mobs, and even those are always suppressed
20:13 < angdraug> last flashmob I've heard was about coming to the 
     October (or Kalinovski) square (were all the demonstrations and tent 
     camp took place) and just _smiling_
20:13 < angdraug> believe it or not, people were arrested just for 
     smiling that evening
20:15 < angdraug> still, some people are keeping on with things like 
     Critical Mass, antifascism, etc.
20:15 < angdraug> can't tell if any underground activity is going 
     on: even if I were there and knew, I wouldn't tell :)
20:15 < angdraug> 
20:16 <@maxigas> thx for the scene report.

torun question about animal rights activists in belarus

20:16 < mag> I WANT TO ASK if in bialorus are a lot of animal rights 
     activists? a lot of animal rights organisations etc?
20:17 < angdraug> not really. I've seen a lot of animal rights activity 
     on Russian IMC, but in Belarus, people seem to have too much trouble 
     with their own rights :((
20:18 < mag> yes, in Russian there ale a lot of direct actions etc.
20:19 < angdraug> e.g., there's ongoing story about a girl from belarusian 
     orphanage who was adopted by an italian family (illegally by belarusian 
     laws) and now refuses to return because he was abused and tortured 
20:19 -!- boud is now known as xavi
20:20 < angdraug> there are tens of thousands of children like that 
     in Belarus, almost none get adopted inside the country, and the state 
     doesn't allow them to be adopted abroad out of concern of demographic 
20:20 < angdraug> official propaganda says that the law is there to 
     protect children from being sold to slavery
20:20 -!- samson [...] has joined #europe
20:21 < angdraug> when what they have to endure in orphanages is worse 
     than that
20:22 < angdraug> I know, sympathy to animals and fellow humans go 
     hand in hand, but there is very little of both in Belarus
20:22 < angdraug> there's a lot of education to do before this situation 
20:22 < angdraug> any more questions?

belarus imc situation, imc vs livejournal

20:25 <@maxigas> what's up with belorus IMC?
20:26 < angdraug> the collective is still there, there's relatively 
     little traffic on the site: a lot of activists moved to livejournal
20:26 <@maxigas>  which livejournal?
20:26 <@maxigas> what livejournal?
20:27 <@maxigas> at least there seems to be good traffic on the site.
20:28 < angdraug> livejournal.com, many people keep their blogs there 
     and use different communities under community.livejournal.com
20:28 < xavi> Hi, I'M xavi, I' m in the same room whit Mag, too I' 
     m activist pro animals and the moral situation in POland is the same 
     that in Bialorus, maybe, the diference it' s just the freedom. I think, 
     with angdraug that we are equals, it's not important the number of 
     legs. excuseme for my englisg, my spanish it' s better :)
20:29 < mag> what about a feminism movement in Belorus?
20:30 < angdraug> the problem with livejournal is that it's only suitable 
     for political activism as long as it's owners are not interested in 
     belarusian politics, and as long as moderators of individual communities 
     follow some principles (often they don't)
20:30 < angdraug> situation with feminism is better
20:30 < angdraug> there were festivals and direct actions this year, 
     the gender division in anarchist scene and in IMC is around 50-50
20:31 < angdraug> some zines are issued at irregular intervals, too
20:31 <@maxigas> there are 3 women in 8 people roughly in IMC.hu
20:33 -!- dsamsonov [...] has joined #europe
20:33 -!- samson [...] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:33 < mag> have you got a lot of problems with nacionalists there?
20:34 < angdraug> not much, antifa movement is quite strong in belarus, 
     even though nazi's are often supported by the state
20:34 < angdraug> it's much worse in russia, several activists were 
     killed by nazis there
20:35 < angdraug> sorry, I really have to run home now, it's getting 
     late here. boud knows how to drag me out if you want to talk more to 
     me :)
20:35 < mag> ok
20:36 < xavi> ok. than you for your time, take care
20:36 < mag> thanks
20:36 -!- Didleth [...] has joined #europe
20:36 < angdraug> bye
20:36 -!- angdraug [...] has left #europe [Leaving]
20:36 < mag> hello didleth
20:36 < xavi> hej didleth
20:36 < Didleth> czesc
20:37 < xavi> how it' s wolodia, didleth
20:37 < Didleth> she is dick, becouse my family give her a lot of 
     food - but it's fine
20:38 < Didleth> so - what is talking about?

maxigas about hungary situation

20:38 < xavi> maxigas, what' s the situatio whith goverment now in 
     your country
20:40 <@maxigas> ok
20:40 <@maxigas> so basically it seems nothing will change
20:40 <@maxigas> the government and the prime minister will stay in 
     power and implement neoliberal reforms
20:41 <@maxigas> there are some minor riots today as well, and a thousands 
     of people in front of parliament.
20:41 <@maxigas> these are lead by far-right organisations
20:41 <@maxigas> and tentatively supported by the bug right-wing party
20:42 <@maxigas> the rioters now want to free the "political prisoners"
20:43 <@maxigas> some thousand people demonstrated in front of the 
     police HQ
20:43 <@maxigas> for the hooligans and street fighters that were jailed 
     last week
20:44 <@maxigas> but police presence was too strong so they apparently 
     did not do anything serious
20:44 <@maxigas> otherwise, i did my account on the situation which 
     you can read
20:44 <@maxigas> on indymedia.org
20:45 <@maxigas> and which is also in polish
20:45 <@maxigas> translation
20:45 <@maxigas> 
20:45 <@maxigas> questions?
20:46 < xavi>  what' s exactly #political prisoners#, are they hooligans 
     and street fighters?
20:46 <@maxigas> yes
20:47 <@maxigas> :j
20:47 <@maxigas> some anarchists and punks also fought with the skinheads 
     during the riots
20:48 <@maxigas> and some were beaten by skinheads on the street
20:48 <@maxigas> some punks even dressed up like nationalists to take 
     part in the fights against police!
20:48 < xavi> then it' snot a political figth too it' s a class fight, 
20:50 <@maxigas> what do you mean congratulations?
20:53 < xavi> I think situation with nacionalist it' s hard in all 
     europe. i' m antifa, of course, and I can' t understand why the 
     nacionalism have so health.
20:53 -!- mag [...] has quit [Quit: mag]
20:53 -!- mag [...] has joined #europe
20:53 <@maxigas> there is a very cool guy i met in dijon who is working 
     with young people and football
20:54 <@maxigas> he says it's a shame young people are approached 
     by the right in football contexts
20:54 <@maxigas> he made an antifa football (hooligan?) group
20:55 <@maxigas> one thing why the right is strong: they organise 
     in the right places. :)
20:55 <@maxigas> but of course it's not the main cause, the main cause 
     is the genenral historical political situation
20:55 <@maxigas> i think
20:56 < mag> didleth jestes?
20:57 < Didleth> jestem,
20:57 < Didleth> ale za slabo znam angielski zeby sie aktywniej wlaczyc
20:59 -!- boud [...] has joined #europe
20:59 -!- mode/#europe [+o boud] by ChanServ
20:59 < mag> acha,przeczytaj sobie komentarze na indymediach o dniu 
20:59 < xavi> maybe it' s political historic situation, but the people 
     always look for his place for "changing" points of wiew, it's not 
     important where, just it' s important why, I think
20:59 < Didleth> ok
20:59  * boud a reboot finally fixed the network :P
20:59 < Didleth> pod toruniem?
21:00  * boud (en) read the comments on indymedia about the vegetarian 
21:00  * boud [mag](en) read the comments on indymedia about the vegetarian 
21:00  * maxigas has to go in 10 mins
21:02 <@boud> dsamsonov - hi from all of us :)
21:02 <@boud> i think you're from belarus?
21:02 <@maxigas> (en) are there any concrete proposals for the future?

vegetarianism in hungary and poland activist circles

21:02 < xavi> how it' s the situation whit vegetarianism in Hungary?
21:03 <@maxigas> there was an NGO who made the point but now it's 
     mostly inactive
21:03 <@boud> (en) maybe an article (hu)+(pl) about vegetarianism 
     in poland + hungary
21:04 < Didleth> mag: powiedzmy ze komentarze mnienie dziwia - od 
     dluzszego czasu komentarze na indy nie roznia sie od tych na onecie 
     ; )
21:04 <@boud> (pl) byc moze artykul (hu)+(pl) o temat vege w polsc 
     + wegrzach?
21:04 <@maxigas> (en) there is really not much to report, but we can 
     try to translate and ask some vegactivists to write sth short
21:04 < xavi> oh, i don' t know how many people they are vegetarian 
     in Hungary
21:05  * boud [didleth](en) the comments surprise me - since a long 
     time ago the comments on indymedia look similar ot those on onet [onet 
     is a bit like a polish yahoo/aol]
21:05 < xavi> becouse in Spain, Greece, Italy and several countries 
     the anarchists they aren' t in general vege
21:05 -!- dsamsonov is now known as samson
21:05 <@maxigas> (en) some of the NGO people are veg, and almost all 
     of the grassroots autonomous scene
21:05 < samson> boud, no i'm from moscow
21:05 <@maxigas> (en) the few anarchists in Hungary are veg or want 
     to be weg. :)
21:06  * boud [maxigas](pl) kilka osoby w ngosach sa vege, i prawie 
     wszysce od autonomicznej srodowiska oddolnej [sa vege]
21:06 < mag> in Poland a lot of anarchists are vegetarians
21:07 <@boud> samson: cool - that makes this meeting an even better 
     cross-border meeting :)
21:07 < mag> didleth ja jestem magda
21:07 < Didleth> aha ; ) z Empati? dobrze wiedziec ; )
21:08 < Didleth> Yors nick zmylil me ; )
21:08 < xavi> now i can' t understand how it' s possible love the 
     freedom and don' t love the life
21:08 < xavi> didleth, jestem xavi
21:08 < Didleth> becouse the life menns no absolutly freedom
21:08  * boud [didleth](en) good to know you're from Empatia [eco-vege-animal 
     rights group]
21:09 < Didleth> that I now - becouse you asked about Wolodia
21:09 < xavi> noi jasne
21:09  * boud [xavi](en) ah, that's clear now
21:10 < xavi> the life without freedom it' s posible... but the freedom 
     whitout life, how????????????????????
21:11 <@maxigas> :)
21:11 < Didleth> People understand, that freeodom should be only to 
     they self, and not to the another people or animals
21:11 < Didleth> It's some philosophary questions ; )


21:12 <@maxigas> ok it was nice to see you, i have to go now.
21:12 <@boud> ok, bye maxigas
21:12 < mag> ok, thamks 
21:12 < Didleth> bye Maxigas
21:12 < xavi> yes, I too undestood, it' s just a question, i think, 
     to kill youself the animal that wants to eat...
21:12 < xavi> bye maxigas
21:12 <@maxigas> if there is some concrete proposals mail me
21:13 <@maxigas> indymedia at indymedia dot hu
21:13 < xavi> ok, thanks for to life
21:13 <@boud> is that email address better than imc-hungary at 
     lists.indymedia.org ?
21:13 < Didleth> if you belive, you are always begrenzt - thatway 
     some people o samobojstwo, when they will to be free
21:13 <@maxigas> my nick will be here but it will become a zombie. 
     i'll read later what you wrote
Topic revision: r2 - 28 Oct 2006, AlsteR
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