Forgive me, I don't know how to format stuff for a wiki... but I started, and this is legible in the "edit" mode right now... Perhaps someone else can help out here.

US Indymedia Meeting - Thursday, March 24th aka 3/24/05 5pm Eastern

next meetings: Tuesday, April 4th aka 4/04/05 11pm Eastern Sunday, April 17th aka 4/17/05 4pm Eastern

* muna [cgiirc@] has joined #us * Topic is: M19 Action page @ || * Topic set by john!irc@localhost [Thu Mar 17 22:10:22 2005] * muna nyc_josh emily vortexas deva bht ibm themahtin kamiaki gek asad-daltex hep mtoups david * Channel created on Wed Jan 19 17:38:25 2005

bht hi muna

muna hi all. did i miss everything important?

bht yes

muna ah, terrific.

muna agenda set yet?

emily let's get this show on the road

muna anyone loggin this?

bht muna: there aent many folks here yet. josh, emily, you, me, deva, and vortexas i think are the only ones to show for the meeting.

bht the rest of the folks just hang out here and their participation is unknown.

muna ah.

muna i know betsy's supposed to show...

muna but perhaps those of us here can at least start on an agenda?

* bradley [] has joined #us

emily sounds good

* bradley is now known as sc_bradley * bht is now known as pdx_bht

emily muna i'm trying to pull up the email you sent but if you remember it all, feel free to recap

muna okay, i'll recap and incorporate sheri's suggestions:

muna vision - individual, local collective, and us affinity

muna decisiong-making process

muna email list etiquette (perhaps meeting, too)

muna spanish language

muna outreach / syndication of us locals

muna mentoring

muna effective incorporation of new volunteers

muna roll call / who's here (which us locals are participating)

muna language issues with "U.S."

muna tech innovation

muna documentation/logging

muna future meetings

muna ... that's all i got...

pdx_bht thats good. i dont think we can talk about all of that. i would like to prioritze some ideas about decision making, future meetings, vision, and outreach

pdx_bht i think...

pdx_bht i know maxs recent email leads me to some conclusions that need to more described.

muna i think limiting to those 4 subjects would be plenty.

pdx_bht do we want to start or wait until 2:30 for laggers to show?

muna i'd suggest this order: vision, decision-making, future meetings, outreach...

emily and through in participation either with vision or outreach

emily in order to incorporate what max's email brought up

emily throw*

muna agree w/ emily

muna let's start. it's being logged, so people can go back and look at vision, etc later... there's no decisions out of that per se.

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muna i would like to here from everyone at least in the room for the meeting first.

muna hear*

emily intros?

pdx_bht aye aye. start at the top!

muna asad?

pdx_bht i dont think asad is here, i think he is on a plane from portland to dallas

muna ha.

pdx_bht he lef tthis mornign

muna david? deva?

pdx_bht emily or gek?

emily this is emily from michigan imc, however i want my comments to reflect my own views, not those of the michigan collective

emily gek, hep, ibm?

* nyc_josh is now known as nyc_josh_afk

emily kamiaki or anyone in the m's?

ibm hi

muna ah, ibm from san fran, right?

ibm yes

muna wanna intro yourself for the us indy meeting?

ibm indeed

ibm here goes

kamiaki emily hi, what's up?

ibm i'm ibm, i work with SFIMC (sf.indy) doing all kinds of things. administrative, fundraising, audio, editorial

ibm done

kamiaki i'm kamiaki, with SFIMC - admin, writer/editor, development


* vortexas is now known as atx_jeff * ibm is now known as sf_ibm

kamiaki gek is busy, i'm sure and hep is not available

pdx_bht mtoups, muna or atx_jeff

muna well atx_jeff just jumped to the top of the list

atx_jeff howdy, jeff from austin, do some admin, writing, and video

muna i'm muna from richmond virginia, hold down rva imc for over 4 years now.

* nyc_josh_afk is now known as nyc_josh

muna mtoups? josh?

nyc_josh josh from nyc, have done some www-features work

pdx_bht this is bht from portland imc. i do not represent portland imc. i would like to see more outreach and some clear guidelines for working with us imc. i would also like to get more people familiar with mir and confident enough to assume more roles within us imc. done.

sc_bradley hi, i'm bradley and santa cruz is my local IMC. i do editorial work, coverage, and general organizing. i've been pretty involved with i feel fine going into the admin to promote local features and make new ones. i'm also involved with CMRN

sc_bradley and free radio santa cruz

pdx_bht themahtin or anyone that was skipped?

muna maidenhair?

* pdx_bht doesnt think maidenhair is meeting with us, just observing

muna deva?

sc_bradley next.....

muna okay. ready to jump into vision? do i need to reiterate agenda?

pdx_bht i'd suggest this order: vision, decision-making, future meetings, outreach...

emily let's do it

muna ...with participation talked about with outreach

pdx_bht lets do it!

muna can everyone speak to their vision of us indy, going down the list just like roll call?

muna yes? no? atx jeff?

atx_jeff yes. i guess i feel usindymedia being useful for highlighting the best of the best that locals produce and hopefully enhancing participation of local collectives in the us site as well as their own

muna emily?

emily i like the original vision of us.indy being a space for us news to go in order to reduce us traffic on i also see it as a good space for 'networking' and relationship building among us imcistas

sc_bradley {people, to make this all go faster, please type your response now so you are ready when it is your turn... thanks. time is an issue for me today (-: ]

muna i see indymedia, all indymedia, as an organizing tool. that's what i focus on individually, and i feel like connecting across the nation right now is crucial.

muna josh?

nyc_josh sry, I have to leave in a couple of minutes

nyc_josh so no thoughts - end

pdx_bht i would like to see us.indy be a strong syndication based site. with exclusive coverage for nationwide events or other large events (i.e. m19, taco bell truth tour). i would like to use the op wire for places where an imc does not exist. i would like to see more local coverage from local imc's...but that is off the us imc subject. elsewise, i would like to see strong representation of local imc's on the lists, and participation on discussion from as many imcs as p

pdx_bht ossible. as far as internal work goes, it doesnt take many people. four people have been holding it down for a long time. also, i would like it to be more of a tool for imcistas to see what other imcistas are doing and see the good things that come from a diversity of tactics. i would like it to be a support tool for us and a strong media outlet for other folks. i would really like to see a group of five to ten folks that spend alot of time working day to day on

pdx_bht the site. and for any kind of action or special coverage, open the site up for folks to take on different tasks and topic pages, event pages, etc. the admin is malleable to the point that most anything can happen in there if you just want to do it. and the more fresh ideas, and involvement and tipping each other to things happening around the country the stronger we will be. done.

* pdx_bht says sorry it was so long happy

sc_bradley may vision has already been expressed by other folks

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sf_ibm one sec. writing...

muna imb?

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sarsnic hello

sc_bradley hello sarnic

sf_ibm For me, the best model for US-IMC is solely syndication, with minimal work put into trying to organize a virtual collective, exhorting more IMCs to join another list or two, stretching already thin resources even thinner. UC-based IMCs should have a list or two to discuss, collaborate, but I think a syndication site will suffice as a place for US news to be disseminated.

sf_ibm done

muna sarsnic, you just landed in the middle of a us indy meeting.

muna want to participate?

muna which imc do you work with?

sarsnic nick from houston

sc_bradley vision, decision-making, future meetings, outreach...

sc_bradley (this is what is on the table for the meeting)

muna ah. hi, nick.

sarsnic yeah bht has me all up to speed

muna wanna share your vision for us indy?

sarsnic well, I always liked not having a national site at all, just going right from global to international, but since people made a good argument that the global site was US dominated and this would relieve that, it seemed cool, but, I identify with the minimalist visions

emily so, pure syndication is a vision that has been mentioned. are there folks who disagree with that take on us.indy?

sarsnic like a newswire with no center column?

sc_bradley i'd much rather have a "LIVE" site with a cener column

pdx_bht i think as long as people exist that WANT to do the work on the site to make it not purely syndication, than it should remain not purely syndication.

* emily seconds what pdx_bht said

muna i think there are problems with both arguments right now.

sc_bradley john expressed the same to me

sarsnic can it be pure syndication but take the whole feature from the locals with the photos and everything?

emily yes

pdx_bht sarsnic: yes

muna there are not enough people with the ability in one way or another to manually edit/write the center.

muna thus, syndication seems preferable to provide more equity.

muna on the other hand...

muna there are 36 locals not participating

pdx_bht if the site were to remain mostly as is, with an arbitrary agreement on promoting local features, it would be good for the site. then if/when something comes up where folks want to be able to do manual features and such, that is still available.

sarsnic what are the main concerns with pure syndication - that too many real local stories without much national import would clog it up?

muna i'm not certain if the number's the same for those not being syndicated.

sc_bradley i agree with bht, and no, sarsnic, that is not a concern of mine

kamiaki there are volume and frequency issues as well if equitable news-share is the goal

pdx_bht sarsnic: i dont think that the site should focus on national coverage, however it should highlight local actions and gather them in a place where folks can see whats going on where in an easy way

kamiaki but its not clear to me that that should be the goal

gek if we are going to not automate the site, can we at least be spared the badgering emails on the list denegrating us all for not doing x, y or z?

muna gek, can you introduce yourself?

sarsnic i mean, well, it seems to me the main distinction to make it, what are the stories that make it to the featurewire that dont make it to the center column now

gek i'm gek, been doing IMC for five years now, in san francisco, in the middle east, in latin america, and so on

gek my home imc is SF

sc_bradley well sf-imc is affecting the rest rest of us-imc, so it is an issue. sorry you feel badgered by it

muna thanks.

gek sc_bradley: how does sf-imc affect whether or not the center column is updated?

sarsnic what kinda stories would make it to center if it were automated

sc_bradley maybe we can talk about it later, i don;t want to get too off topic, sorry gek

pdx_bht sarsnic: i would randomly pull like every fifth syndicated feature or so.

pdx_bht i=it

gek sc_bradley: i'm talking about the badgering emails from bht recently that i replied to on list about people not updating the center column

gek sc_bradley: my point is that if someone has to routinely send out emails begging people to do work, then maybe the lesson to be learned is that there arent enough people to pull off a live center column

muna there's the entire issue of all the locals not syndicated at all. that's the only reason i got involved with us in the first place -- the only way to throw richmond stories of national import was to do so manually front and center.

* maidenhair [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]

sc_bradley muna, there is a way to add a local feature to the syndication wire

sarsnic like now there are people deciding "this one is good enough to feature" so what are the criteria?

sc_bradley there is no criteria

muna (don't worry about it now, bradley)

sc_bradley that has been set

sarsnic whatever they are maybe the local collectives could make that call, deciding which ones should not go

muna okay. hold up.

muna it sounds like we're moving quickly towards decision-making.

emily true.

muna can we wrap up vision first?

muna do we need to summarize?

pdx_bht that would be great!

sf_ibm yes, summarize

muna are there any blocking conflicts?

sarsnic of a proposal?

emily muna: conflicts with what

muna to me, it sounds like people are basically on the same page with what they want out of us indy.

kamiaki can you clarify?

sarsnic i can't block your vision happy

muna the site is already largely syndicated, with the main point of contention being whether it should be entirely so.

muna (see the potential "blocking vision" here?)

muna the argument is that if there are enough people willing to work together and edit/write the center, so be it.

muna if not, we should more towards total syndication.

emily i think a big part of the vision right now is whether or not folks like the idea of us.indy carrying live event coverage. as in a collection of updates from around the country on national days of action.

sarsnic well, I think we should have a reason that goes more to our mission for going non-syndication than we have enough people

sarsnic or for remaining non-syndication

emily if people like that idea, then more people need to step up to make it happen on those particular days. this one isn't an issue of continuous day to day work on the site, but people coming together a few days out of the year to work on the site

muna reason: in my experience, indymedia folks only make significant time for one another when news is involved.

emily this is how i

emily 'm interpreting the pdx_bht/gek conflict

sarsnic so, what I would like is a syndication site that involved all the locals and allowed the local editors to make the call about whether a story was important enough to go to US

pdx_bht i agree with emily on the work part. the site needs a very few people to do day to day stuff.

muna why is it necessary to have running news from local actions on a national site?

sc_bradley sarsnic, that is what we currently have

pdx_bht sarsnic: i dont think is about importnace, but about having a clear representation of whats going on around the us throughout indymedia in one site.

sc_bradley except, we don't have involvement yet from all local US-based IMCs

sf_ibm there isn't even involvement from all IMC on

muna to me, this is by far the highest priority.

themahtin hey

sf_ibm if by involvement, one means being syndicated

muna hello, mahtin. wanna introduce yourself to the us indy meeting?

themahtin hi, i'm mahtin from indybay and i work on the website there

themahtin i am not representing indybay

sc_bradley hey mahtin

themahtin hi bradley

muna like i said, 36 nonparticipating, i'm assuming nonsyndicated imcs.

emily muna: i feel it is important to have a central location for all the local action, because people seem to find it relevant to check up on whats happening in other parts of the country. this is why portland, michigan, etc have done national radio coverage. it creates a feeling of solidarity to hear about other local actions

kamiaki have the 36 non-participants given their reasons for not participating?

sf_ibm i strongly doubt usimc is even on that many IMCs' radar

sf_ibm but afaik, no reasons given

muna i think that have, but i haven't been told what their reasons are... i'm not even sure if all these imcs know about us.

kamiaki i think it'd be a mistake to create a site that requires much labor from people when indy clearly could benefit from each local group devoting more time to increasing the qaulity of their local site

muna (thanks for the explanation, emily. that helps.)

sc_bradley but we learn from others, and us-imc helps with that

kamiaki if the mission of us-imc is to be representative, then it seems like it'd be necessary to get all those groups involved

pdx_bht in the roll-call many folks accentuated the idea of networking and i think it is imerpative to networking to have all of what a local imc considers a feature for its site syndicated to us imc. i also think that it is important to have a space where things can be archived in an easily accessible place. us imc and doing national coverage of events also reduces the strain on local imc servers and decentralizes the work that local folks would have to do.

kamiaki well, bht, we (sfimc) were reprimanded before for flooding the us site

kamiaki so i don't think that there is a clear acceptance that usimc should take whatever its fed from the locals

pdx_bht kamiaki: your site doesnt syndicate the features

sc_bradley with like 20 features in a row from sf-imc, that was the main issue

kamiaki i understand

sc-bradley - the differences I see curerently between what we have and my vision are that 1) there is an editorial collective making decisions about what goes to the center column 2) I dont know how to NOT send a local story to the US wire like if it is something that just doesnt matter to non-houstonians like a film screening or a local report about something that is just off of the global site or something 3) not all the IMCs are involved

pdx_bht kamiaki: sfimc was synidcated the op wire for us issues.

kamiaki listen, we have issues to work out, but the point is that usimc does want to control the content

muna which seems to mean we can't go entirely syndicated.

pdx_bht kamiaki: that isnt true.

kamiaki ok... perhaps i misunderstand

pdx_bht sarsnic: those local film screenings are important outside of houston happy and there is not a us imc editorial collective!

muna i'd like to interrupt.

* Chanders [] has joined #us

kamiaki muna: go

muna we've got folks who have to leave soon, so can we take a moment to discuss future meetings.

muna via email, people proposed weekends and night times.

muna perhaps we could set two regular monthly meetings at different days and times.

sarsnic I like super late, but I am a vampire

muna one week night and one weekend afternoon.

Chanders That sounds good

emily that sounds good. regular meetings might cut down the amount of emails. Another idea for email reduction is if we created an external discussion board where proposals, concerns, ideas can be hashed out.

muna chanders, can you introduce yourself?

Chanders Hi everyone, Chris from NYC. Sorry I'm late and it looks like the meeting is ending ...

sc_bradley it is not ending

muna nope, not ending.

deva hi deva from portland here

muna (hi, chris)

muna hi, deva

muna alright, i got two seconds on two regular monthly meetings.

muna what about 11pm eastern, 1st tuesday of the month and...

muna um... 4pm eastern 3rd sunday of the month.

sf_ibm what's the goal of having two IRC meetings per month?

sf_ibm sorry, just need some clarification

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muna so that decission making and discussion is limited too huge amounts of email.

asad hey guys

muna is not

emily muna: those times sound great to me

muna hello, asad... have a good flight? wanna introduce yourself to the us indy meeting?

muna everyone else? meeting times?

muna please please feel free to propose others...

kamiaki i think it'd be good to try to clarify the goals of each meeting before they begin in the future

muna those literally came out of my... fingers.

asad Yeah, got stuck in denver...anyways my name is asad, i do a little work with north texas indy media, just looking to help out with US indy happy

muna alright. done. meetings with actual goals.

kamiaki i apologize if this was done today, i didn't see the announcement beforehand

muna goal of this meeting: more meetings wink

<sf_ibm* unhappy

gek just to clear one thing up, sorry i'm distracted by real-world things here.. but any syndication scheme that comes up here is doable tech-wise

gek the center column could be computer generated, the right column can be, anything is possible

gek there are no real technical constraints

muna do we have enough tech folks active with us to enable and maintain total syndication?

pdx_bht well john is our tech folk and he could do that. however, i think the impetus is there for a site that isnt total syndication.

muna wait. we need to wrap up future meetings.

emily hey! what happened to meetings? could we try to wrap up at least one topic before moving on to too many others

muna if my proposal stands, then the next meeting would be...

muna tuesday, april 4, 11pm eastern.

emily great.

muna i personally need to hear everyone confirm that.

Chanders good.

sf_ibm sure

sc_bradley sounds good

asad is someone going to post this to the wiki?

emily we need a way to keep track of when our meetings will be. is there some place on the site? or the wiki? where the dates/times can be constantly updated

*pdx_bhtv aye aye!

* asad twinkles

muna okay, wiki liason voluteer ___?

emily i need a wiki tutorial but i can be that person

muna sweet... who can show emily the wiki?

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emily i'm in portland right now, i'm sure i can find someone (bht)

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muna can you send a couple of emails to everyone on the list about the meeting(s)?

muna 1st tuesday, 3rd sunday...

muna anything else with future meetings?

deva good job helping keep the meeting going muna

deva thanks

muna does this schedule address issues of time privileges.

pdx_bht muna i think it looks great!

muna ha. you're up next, deva.

deva :::shuts mouth:::

emily i'll send out an email after this meeting to update the people who aren't here

muna alright, surfers and sinners, we were on vision, we were all about syndication, but perhaps we need some decision-making process first...

muna which route do we need to go right now?

sarsnic lets do closing statements about syndication and then just move on w/o debate or discussion

sarsnic just an idea happy

muna i'm down... who's first?

emily aye aye. if there are proposals we can come back to it after we do decision making

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pdx_bht schok!

emily down the line. asad you're up

muna i think both sides must prove themselves.

muna ops... asad...

asad can i pass for now

asad happy

pdx_bht okay then asad_daltex is up next

asad he passes as well

emily heh

muna atx jeff?

pdx_bht atx_jeff

muna or chris?

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muna aw, dudes be looking at... indymedia...

sarsnic ok, jumping in here (to try to get the ball rolling)

muna deva?

deva yeah?

sarsnic if all the technical concerns could be addressed, I am in favor of an all syndication site which would put the power to decide what goes up to US in the hands of every local editor without having to join any more lists or edit another site - they could just click a box or something to indicate that they do or dont want a feature to go to US

deva sorry, was elsewhere

dannyp is this an open discussion or a facilitated meeting?

Chanders Could someone define exactly what we mean when we say "all syndication?"

muna deva, we're closing the convo about syndication.

muna danny, this is us indy meeting since 5pm eastern.

kamiaki what's the remaining agenda?

deva the idea of an all syndication site is not bad, but it leaves no room for national coverage of events

muna chris, all syndication means just that -- us indy goin entirely tech.

Chanders thanks.

deva which it does seem well suited for

muna remaining agenda is decision-making and outreach.

deva end

sarsnic as long as our soldiers are going to be robots, why not our editors

muna thanks, deva.

muna dude, i think you just hit on why some folks are opposed to the idea.

muna emily, you're up.

emily i feel like the way the site is currently running is great. Syndicated featurewire, open newswire, promoted featurewire are all working. If there are people wanting to keep the site live, then it should be kept live. I think national event coverage is a huge advantage of having us.indy and I want people to agree with me on that and participate in making it happen.

kamiaki its doesn't have to be a question of syndication v. human

kamiaki but it should be able to run rather well without much human intervention, i think

muna gek? hep?

sf_ibm yes

muna got a full closing statement, kamiaki?

sf_ibm and if there's only a small group that can devote time to creating new features

sf_ibm than fine, but accept it as such...

muna could i get my two cents in on this, and then we'll continue down the line?

sf_ibm go

sarsnic even 3 cents

muna as i began before, i think both sides need to prove their case. i think those who want full syndication need to donate their tech time and skills to making such an idea work flawlessly... i also think that those who want

muna an edited and collaboratively written site need to find the folks willing to help with this...

muna i think either way the idea of accepting what we've got, and knowing that isn't enough or good enough,

muna is not, nor ever will be, acceptable.

muna done.

muna bht?

pdx_bht as the site is, it can easily be made completely syndication based. i would like to wait until after outreach efforts to make that decision. as i beleive that enough folks will step up to allow it to not be purely syndication based. done.

deva :::raises hand:::

sarsnic> alot of people seem to not be fitring off their opinions - maybe we should just put them all up in any order

muna (how does one put up other people's opinions?)

muna yes, deva?

deva there are two sorts of editorial work

deva one is writing totally new stories

deva another is compiling stuff from the featurwwire into a comprehensive feature

deva I believe the second is very useful and should continue

deva end

sarsnic i just mean anyone on the list who has something to say about syndication, lets just get them all out and then move on

emily sarsnic its your turn


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kamiaki pdx_bht: i agree that the structure of the site right now doesn't need to be messed with really... but since sfimc isn't really working with the feature/newsire duality so much anymore, its unclear what we should be syndicating to us -- i think us does neet to have some criteria for what they want to see on the site before the group can promote or block content with legitimacy

sarsnic emily i said mine already happy

emily oh sorry

emily sc_bradley?

sc_bradley i feel like the way the site is currently running is great. Syndicated featurewire, open newswire, promoted featurewire are all working. If there are people wanting to keep the site live, then it should be kept live. I think national event coverage is a huge advantage of having us.indy and I want people to agree with me on that and participate in making it happen.

sc_bradley (emily said it first, but i -bradley- feel the same way!!!!!!!)

emily happy thanks for the echo bradley

muna schok, whom has yet to introduce themselves, want to chime in here?

tribal d.o. here, horrifically late (sorry)

muna ibm, mahtin, and tribal...

schok hello, schock from miami model video collective.

tribal hey!

schok i need to read over this before commenting, sorrry

schok done.

themahtin i agree with aspects of what various people have said- there is a real role for pulling the syndicated stuff into stories that give a whole picture of what is going on

themahtin but kamiaki has a good point about having an editorial/syn policy

themahtin and that should be dealt with

themahtin end

muna tribal?

tribal i'll need to read up

muna okay. vision/syndication is closed.

sf_ibm and it's only 8:50 EST

sf_ibm tongue

muna sounds like people be wanting an editoral policy, which means we need a decision-making process... also sounds like

sf_ibm wait

sf_ibm 6:50

deva what about kamiaki's point?

deva ahhh

asad can i go?

sarsnic go

pdx_bht go

emily GO!

muna people be wanting everyone syndicated, which means outreach.

asad basically what bradley said. both syndication as well as open publishing work well. coverege is vital, and i wouldn't want syndication only to mess with that.

asad done happy

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muna decision?

sarsnic anyone else got a thought on syndication before we move on?

muna making?

muna process?

sarsnic DMP

emily muna: yes. yes. yes.

deva isn't there one?

muna well, there must of course be an unstated one.

sc_bradley that goes without saying (-:

muna does someone want to summarize how decisions are made right now, with no existing formal process?

deva I sorta remember it being stated at an early on meeting

sarsnic yeah - its whnever people dont want to bother deciding something they can say "hey we dont even have a process anyway"

muna ha. ouch.

muna anyone else?

sc_bradley i can try....

muna yay, bradley.

deva no decisions get made other than features which was decided at the time to have people just do them

asad hey guys, i actually got to go, i haven't been home yet...if anyone can post this meeting up on the wiki, it would be good. bye all

sc_bradley mental block

muna (who volunteers to post this irc log to the wiki?)

themahtin i think emily did with help from bht

emily well i volunteered to regularly update wiki with meeting times

sc_bradley sometimes features (both local and original) are "proposed" to the editorial list

sc_bradley and people say, yes, go for it...

sc_bradley and, here is a link from this IMC over here

sc_bradley and it gets added to the bottom of the summary of the local feature

* asad [] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC]

sc_bradley i can't recall anyone saying, "no, don't promote that local feature"

emily (x-chat won't log this whole discussion, so i cant be responsible for putting it all on wiki)

muna question: do we need different decision making processes for different kinds of decisions?

sarsnic so, informally, we can probably imagine how it works, but it gets harder if there is disagreement about anything because we dont feel like we have enough voices to decide anything binding for the future

sc_bradley i think the (non)process has worked pretty well

muna ex: features and group process decisions.

sarsnic or the present even

... time passes when muna accidentally leaves room and must rejoin... jokes are made...

* muna [cgiirc@] has joined #us * Topic is: M19 Action page @ || * Topic set by john!irc@localhost [Thu Mar 17 22:10:22 2005] * muna tribal dannyp Chanders sarsnic sc_bradley emily atx_jeff deva pdx_bht sf_ibm themahtin kamiaki gek asad-daltex hep mtoups david * Channel created on Wed Jan 19 17:38:25 2005

muna shit.

emily muna don't scare us like that!

muna sorry.

Chanders the only time I can see a conflict would be if we start to do more "summary" features. Right?

muna but i did just lose my record of this chat with that mistake.

sc_bradley yes, the summary features can be a bit stressful to compile

Chanders so maybe thats when we need more of a process

sc_bradley for various reasons that i'd be happy to explain, from my perspective, if people want, at some point

muna please do.

sc_bradley ok, keep going and i'll type...

muna perhaps process could be begin with announced times when people will be online working on summary features together.

muna deadlines for getting them up.

muna other suggestions?

sc_bradley becuause we all want it to be as inclusive as possible, and that takes a ton of work for one perosn to compile, and not everyone knows how to use the wiki and use this chat room, and then people get upset if their local story is not linked, but people don't know how to link it themself, or they don't know the process....

sc_bradley and we need to figure out when we should stop updating the abstract and body, and just add new stuff as a comment

sc_bradley especially when we want to get translations going!

* sf_ibm is now known as ibm

muna as a reader, i'll say that updating abstracts can be useless --

sc_bradley why? cuz after you read once, you never look back?

muna unless the update looks markedly different, if someone's already read it, they're not going to read it again to find a small added link.

sc_bradley i think new features are great. or breaking news, like the georgetown story on now

muna for richmond, adding info as comments seems to not only convey the info better, but also encourages regulare users to post comments.

deva when info is changing fast, a new feature helps for that

sc_bradley getting "regular users" more involved should be the top priority

Chanders Can I give one example of what I mean and just let people think over what the best process would be for making it happen? We dont even need to come up with an answer now.

muna not for us indy, brad... getting other locals involved should be top.

muna please do, chris.

Chanders I'll type and y'all keep talking.

sc_bradley and i'd like to have feautres link to post from the open-publishing wire!

sc_bradley we have gotten some posts there

* ali [] has joined #us

pdx_bht ali ali ali

deva all features bradley?

deva or just compilation ones?

sc_bradley getting other locals involved should be top.

sc_bradley yes, that is what i agree with you about.

muna okay. hold up, ya'll.

pdx_bht bring us back muna!

muna this discussion is supposed to be decision-making process, correct?

sc_bradley in general, there have been good posts to the OP wire, that i'd like us to point out more

muna it sounds like we have in place a working process for features.

emily muna: yes. where are we going with this?

deva yes muna... there is a working process

muna needs fixing and formalizing, but it'll do for now.

Chanders Here's an example: today, one of the organizations in NYC that publicizes critical mass got an injunction from the City of NY that not only tries to ban CM (which has been done before but also) tries to keep anyone involved with this organization from publiczing times up in any way. It would be interesting to pull together a US IMC feature on: how do other cities manage critical mass? how do other cm riders in other cities deal with the cops, e

sarsnic I feel that if we are going to have a collective (however small) doing the center column, then they can probably figure out a good way to decide things, but the processs stuff is another can of worms

muna okay.

Chanders and we dont have to figure it out now but this seems like something thats harder to do on us imc than simply promoting features. end.

sc_bradley chanders, a critical mass feature sounds like a great idea to me. and that story from ny is very important to get out

muna hey.

*munav 2 hour and 15 minute meeting girl, here.

muna i propose 5 more minutes of direct responses to the feature process on the table.

deva second

muna third?

emily is this the feature process that bradley summarized? sorry i'm lost

Chanders third.

muna okay. i gotta suggestion for feature process in response to chris and brad.

muna hopefully, this may also address the problem of intended summaries never going up, or going up too late while waiting for collaboration/information.

muna richmond throws up a feature when it needs to go up, whether we have the info/help or not.

muna we did it on nov.1 with election coverage and got a gaggle of comments.

muna we did it on M20 and are also seeing that feature fill up with comments.

muna all reportbacks, most for folks who are not imcistas.

muna us indy could function this way, but with added importance of locals adding info as comments.

muna just a suggestion.

*muna> 3 more minutes.

deva interesting suggestion

deva Chanders - post that story to your local imc, make it a feature, it is syndicated, promote it

Chanders i think its a good one. or perhaps we can start it that way and go from there.

muna us indy admins, or the locals who know how to do it themselves, could update the linked list of places coverage is coming from during this process.

muna 1 more minutre.

muna minutre being latin for minute.

muna * * * i do not want to assume that silence is agreement * * *

Chanders i agree.

* pdx_bht is now known as pdx_bht_brb

deva ha! if you don't assume that, you will not get anything done

deva happy

muna perhaps we need a clear statement of what just happened:

* baku [] has joined #us

muna i think we just saw an outline of how the feature process works, and one way it could work better.

sc_bradley hy baku

baku yo y'all

muna those of us who work on center features can try this out.

deva yes

muna (if you want and need the ability to admin the us site, let bht, john, or me know)

muna hello, baku.

muna wanna introcue yourself?

Chanders thanks muna. i think thats a good proposal.

muna we's about to move on to...

muna um...

muna decision-making process for non-feature decisions.

muna ?

baku baku from atx imc

themahtin in terms of meeting energy

themahtin isn't there still outreach on the agenda?

muna yes.

muna how about we do a roll call...

muna if you want to talk about outreach, type that.

muna if you want decision-making, say that.

tribal outreach, yes

Chanders outreach, yes

muna either way, we end at 8pm eastern?

themahtin outreach/nap

sc_bradley end at 8, i agree

sc_bradley outreach

muna 3 outreaches.

muna 4.

muna ali?

muna baku?

muna jeff?

muna deva?

muna ibm?

deva outreach sounds fine

ibm yes, do outreach

muna kamiaki?

ibm happy

muna bht?

sc_bradley bht is be right back

muna oh yeah.

muna outreach it is.

themahtin can i ask what was done before the site started?

themahtin and what responses there were?

ali outreach

ali sorry i'm giving delayed responses

sc_bradley the conception was a few years ago at the AMC in Ohio...

* pdx_bht_brb is now known as pdx_bht

sc_bradley and outreach has been done by posting articles on newswires of local IMCs, emails on various indymedia mail lists, global feature about back in Nov. when the site went 'public'

sc_bradley various radio collectives read from and promote, indymedia newspapers as well

sc_bradley it has been hard to get solid responses

tribal also, press releases went out to likely suspects

sc_bradley in some of my experiences

muna want some concrete outreach ideas?

tribal ok, one major problem: not all u.s. locals have a link to the u.s. site. how shall we fix this?

sc_bradley i want people to volunteer to do them (-:

muna i'd say first not all us locals are involved, period.

sc_bradley that is a tech issue on some sites

muna i'm looking at the list of 36 nonparticipating locals.

sc_bradley i think someone should make a cool graphic for

sc_bradley then ask locals to include it on their site

muna maybe we could go over that and folks could volunteer to get in touch with a few each.

sc_bradley sounds good muna

tribal it doesn't matter if they don't participate in this regard. they can still link

tribal nevermind, fell behind

muna i'm counting linking as part of participation.

muna lemme try just cutting and pasting this...

sc_bradley when was it updated?

muna atlanta austin binghamton boston

kamiaki muna, sorry i have to work... i'll catch up later

muna well. that worked.

muna thanks, kamiaki.

Chanders i'll take those four, muna.

sc_bradley send us the link?


muna sweet. i've got like several more lines of four.

muna buffalo chicago colorado danbury, ct

muna dc hawaii houston hudson

muna mohawk idaho ithaca kansas city

muna la madison maine miami

muna milwaukee minneapolis/st.paul new hampshire

* ali [] has quit [Quit: User disconnected]

muna new jersey new orleans n. carolina philadelphia

sc_bradley jsut curious, where did you get that info of cities not syndicated?

muna pittsburgh rochester rogue valley santa barbara

* ali [] has joined #us

pdx_bht sc_bradley, this is imcs that havent responded to the roll call

* asad-daltex is now known as asad

sc_bradley thanks

pdx_bht or imcs that havent had a person respond (hint hint atx folks)

Chanders bye everybody. i have to go. it was good to talk to everyone.

muna pittsburgh rochester rogue valley santa barbara

muna thanks, chris

muna seattle tallahassee-red hills tennessee

* Chanders left #us []

muna utah vermont worcester

pdx_bht keep em coming muna!

muna that's it.

emily damn.

pdx_bht it.

muna yeah. exactly.

sc_bradley how are we going to organize this?

tribal i'll do mohawk, etc.

sc_bradley are you gonna make a list muna, or bht

sc_bradley of who is gonna contact who"?

pdx_bht well, this should be more accountable than someone just saying they'lldo them

muna um, i thought you were doing that, bradleywink

sc_bradley ok, i will

pdx_bht we can organzie a wiki page with these imc's and then put names of outreach liasions next to them.

muna okay, i'm taking notes here.

sc_bradley cool, let me know if you want help or with the wiki

muna bradley, or anyone else, is there a list of who's syndicated?


pdx_bht aye aye its in the syndication faq

sc_bradley * San Francisco Bay Area

sc_bradley * Houston

sc_bradley * Atlanta

sc_bradley * Austin

sc_bradley * Baltimore

sc_bradley * Boston sc_bradley * Chicago

sc_bradley * Madison

sc_bradley * Minneapolis/St. Paul

sc_bradley * LA

sc_bradley * NYC

sc_bradley * Hudson Mohawk

sc_bradley * Philadelphia

sc_bradley * Portland

mtoups whats this about pittsburgh?

sc_bradley * San Diego

sc_bradley * Santa Cruz

sc_bradley * Urbana-Champaign

sc_bradley * DC

sc_bradley * New Orleans

pdx_bht mtoups: stay out of it

sc_bradley * Michigan

sc_bradley * Pittsburgh

sc_bradley * Rogue Valley

sc_bradley * Tennessee

sc_bradley * Worcester

sc_bradley * New Hampshire

sc_bradley * San Fransisco (National Feed)

muna ah, now matt appears.

sc_bradley is syndicated into

mtoups yeah sorry

muna we've decided to kick pittsburgh out.

mtoups muna: we're building a new server at the moment that will soon host richmond imc happy

muna and you owe us fries.

mtoups heh

sc_bradley and santa cruz?

muna sweet. thanks. now i owe you fries.

muna thanks for the list, bradley.

sc_bradley ok, so are we all supposed to say who will contact who?

sc_bradley or bht, did you want to say something before that happens?

muna okay, so chris is taking hotlanta, austin, binghamton, and boston.

pdx_bht bradley, do you what you got to do!

sc_bradley i can try Santa Barbara again

sarsnic so we

sc_bradley and LA too

sarsnic we're just gonna be like "come on yall, figure out how to get syndiated already!"

sc_bradley but i've tried in the past...

emily not syndicated... this is a list of people who arent represented on the imc-us discuss list (yes?)

sc_bradley hopefully something a bit more tactful than that

* atx_jeff [] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF)]

tribal whoa! aren't we mixing syndication request and link request? Are we supposed to ask for both?

pdx_bht sarsnic: it might help to read up on us imc, through list archives and such so you can have a better base to work off of. there is a synidciation faq that john wrote up that explains to folks how to syndicate

sc_bradley we are mixing things up indeed

muna okay, ya'll. let's slow it down.

muna perhaps we can combine and find some priorities.

muna who's on both lists? who niether responded to roll call or is syndicated?

sc_bradley sounds good, but we need to know who is syndicated, who has a link to us-imc, and who has a 'rep' on the imc-us list

pdx_bht or we can write a list of us based imc's and earmark what they have all using the wiki, then folks can go to that and mark which imc's they'd like to take.

muna okay, so whoever takes on a local needs to learn those three things at least.

* emily likes bht's suggestion

* asad [cgiirc@] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC]

sc_bradley and make sure people know how to use wiki

sc_bradley and likes bht's idea too

muna perhaps a crucial key to alleviating work would be to then ask a local we got in touch with to track down another needed one.

sc_bradley i don't know about that idea...

* asad [cgiirc@] has joined #us

emily only after recieving positive feedback from said local?

muna maybe a wiki tutorial online would go far.

muna of course.

sc_bradley both a wiki and IRC tutorial are needed

sc_bradley ongoing tuturials...

sc_bradley hopefully lots of that can happen at a local level though

muna regardless, the time is now 7:55 eastern.

sc_bradley i can help set up the wiki, if bht and muna send me notes on who is taking what

sc_bradley nevermind, that is what the wiki is for!!!

muna we've got a solid outreach approach for locals.

ibm is there a timeline?

ibm like, by this date, if things aren't done, plan b is put into effect?

muna okay. hold up.

muna we'd hoped to end this meeting be 8pm.

muna before the meeting ends though

emily i want to throw in what max mentioned in his email. some people have also echoed this today, that if a local imc has a lot on their plate and can't spread resources too thin by having someone work directly on us.indy that it isn't a bad thing

muna it's important to review who's taken on what concrete tasks, with what deadlines.

sc_bradley i can help set up the wiki if people tell me who has a 'rep' on the imc-us list

muna and, as emily's doing, bring up crucial subjects that still need to be address in future meetings.

sc_bradley we should make a note of what max is saying on the wiki, and have a column that says they are too busy to really get involved, but support us-imc in general

pdx_bht bradley...hold on a sec...

muna i'm looking for lists right now.

muna lists of name, task, deadline.

sc_bradley (sorry, i get excited)

muna lists of future needed discussions and decisions.

emily sc_bradley, right but i also want to be sure that when we are contacting these other imcs we don't have an attitude of 'you need to directly participate with us.indy in order to have equal represenatation on the site!'

muna (amen, emily).

sc_bradley twinkles

muna 8pm on the dot.

muna speak up now before i open my beer.

* asad [cgiirc@] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF)]

emily k

ali i'd like to say something

ali but you can still open up your beer

muna ha, go for it ali.

ali we don't have to make any decision on this right now

ali but i think a good way of getting the site out there is through coordinated coverage of specific issues

ali for example the election time really worked

ali because there was a lot of coverage around the us and it made a nice feature in teh center colmun

pdx_bht here is a start on outreach:

ali similar to what chris (chanders) was saying i.e. critical mass

ali if we had a coverage of critical mass from all around the us

ali i'd like to see that eventually we maybe have a monthly mega feature

ali for example housing and gentrification

ali and all imcs could contribute to that topic

pdx_bht or the recent one on counter-recruitment

ali or other topics

ali you get the idea

emily yep. collaborative coverage is a great use of us.indy

ali this will bring people to the site because it will be the only place where they can find national indymedia coveage of those topics

pdx_bht here you can work on that:

ali yes counter-recruitment would be amazingf

pdx_bht ali: already happened happy

ali shows how much i know

ali that's it

themahtin counter-recruitment will be ongoing happy

pdx_bht too truew

muna ali, i think your suggestion gets to the heart of a lot of the discussion earlier about the site being fully syndicated, without these kinds of collaborative efforts.

pdx_bht but that was the first (that i know of) collaboartive us imc feature

themahtin monthly is a good goal

ali right

ali sorry i wasn't here

ali i know there are two trends

ali one to have editors and one to just have syndication

muna a lot of folks are interested in talking about this more...

muna but in the interest of keeping this meeting on track.

ali maybe we can talk about it next meeting

muna ... any other last thoughts from people?

emily just a reminder, i volunteered to be consistently reminding people about meeting times/dates

muna thank you, emily.

muna did anyone get a full log of this entire irc session?

sc_bradley (that video on indybay is great! about count-recruitment!)


* pdx_bht did not

themahtin yah it has gotten a ton of hits

themahtin apparently everyone likes it happy

* emily didn't either

sc_bradley i can copy and paste all this

pdx_bht emily, do you want to open a beer with muna right now, solidarity style?

tribal thanks for facilitating, muna

muna sweet, thanks bradley. post it to the wiki?

emily pdx_bht hell yes.

muna ha.

emily when i email about meeting times, i can direct people to the wiki for the log

muna anything else before we close up?

deva bradley, you got the whole thing?

emily bottoms up!

pdx_bht yes, thank you muna and emily for getting this meeting together!

muna yay, emily!

emily muna fucking rules

ali yes thank you thank you

muna thanks to everyone for showing up on the last minute.

muna ha. whatev.

sc_bradley i got the whole thing, but i don't have time to make the formatting look nice now

emily thats fine

* themahtin chants: mu-Na mu-Na!

deva okay... wanted to know before I closed the winedow

pdx_bht did folks see the outreach page?

deva happy

muna alright, see, that's just silly.

sc_bradley i'll post the rough formating on the wiki now, and clean it up later

muna thanks, deva, for coming.

deva mu-na mu-namu-na mu-namu-na mu-namu-na mu-namu-na mu-na

tribal last minute? why didn't i think of that?

pdx_bht last minute, say it now!

pdx_bht 50

pdx_bht 49

pdx_bht 48

sc_bradley coordinated banner drops, ""

emily i like how none of us are leaving. what nerds we are.

muna total dorks.

* deva hits bht with a water balloon

muna and me, with my metaphorical beer.

* pdx_bht ducks and catches and throws back

tribal bring up the violins

muna i'm gonna leave aka leave work momentarily.

pdx_bht muna, i thought we were summarily toasting now

pdx_bht for real?

pdx_bht anyway, emily and i have to work on your package...

deva bye muna

muna later, deva.

* pdx_bht is now known as bht

tribal zzzzzzzz.........

* tribal [] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC]

* deva left #us []

muna oh don't worry, bht, soon i'll be at the point of bringing beer to work.

muna dude, that outreach page is tight.

bht formatting is a bit off.

muna (didn't think i could get both "dude" and "tight" into a statement about a wiki page, didja?)

muna is ali still around?

bht ali!

ali i'm here

ali but i'm about to split

muna ali, i love the monthly mega idea...

sc_bradley well, that didn't work....


ali to give a presentation about the rhizome collective!

muna awesome.

ali yeah

ali we could rotate it between imcs so that each month a different imc is coordinating the monthly feature

ali i don't know the possibilities are endless

muna let's talk about it more. send me an email.

ali ok

ali what's your adress?

muna or rather send the imc-us-editorical list an email.

bht dont give it to him


ali yeah i'll do that

muna oh shit.

ali hehe

ali ok i'm off to spamm the shit out of that e-mail eddress

ali see y'all laterz

sc_bradley hey i thought that the whole conversation would have been saved in ChatZilla, but apparently not....

muna i still wanna do something about cops killing black/arab/latino/other kids across the nation.

muna later, ali.

bht byie

* ali [] has quit [Quit: ali]

sc_bradley i don't have the notes, sorry


muna who's been sitting here quietly the whole time.

muna maybe he's got a record.

* sc_bradley [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]

themahtin me

themahtin will xchat let me do all this

emily xchat turned its back on me long ago

muna that's cause xchat caught you with his cousin, yo.

emily i said baby please, its not what it looks like !

emily but i got no love
Topic revision: r4 - 05 Apr 2005, PdxFocus
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